The Great Nutshell

[ManRay]

Let must just start by stating that I mean no offense. I reason these to be the facts as I understand them.
A ‘supernatural force’ - something that exists beyond any known or objective understanding. Something that exists outside of time AND space - the only reference points that we really have at all for understanding anything remotely resembling knowledge or reality. This God - this entity created a planet, and populated it with a people so that it could share it’s love with them - and then have them return to the place that they started from in the first place. Out of the known universe - a planet that is the equivalent to one grain of sand on the largest beach in the world (and that’s even stretching it - it’s probably much more miniscule) An entity that is purported to already know what we are going to do anyway with our lives. In between all of this we have various written texts from people describing this supposed reality - a people who also believed in witchcraft, magic, mythological beasts, and all kinds of other fantastic notions that have withered away - but they were on point when speaking of god. A people who didn’t even have the first clue of the rest of the world, and all of the many other gods, and civilizations that existed (hence the God of Israel). On top of that we have a church that was created based on approximately one paragraph regarding Peter out of over 700,000 words that make up the bible. A book that has supposedly provided the template for one of the greatest schisms in modern society(abortion) - even though this God killed hundreds if not thousands of babies, and children. God commanded a bear to kill children because they made fun of a man - and yet god is love, and god is pro life. A church that claims that hell will never prevail against it and yet we have the inquisition, the black popes, the reformation where Jan Hus was executed IN SPITE of being PROMISED safe passage. Wycliffe - burned alive. And on, and on. Why would anyone ever think it normal for the world not to be completely torn in regards to this information? 51% of the population of America - a population full of christians who voted for a guy (bush) who believed that God spoke to him regarding invading Iraq. Why is anyone confused in regards to how much of a mess our world is in? Please explain this to me. Enlighten me.

 

[Della]

You bring up too many issues in one post, besides making accusations and assertions right out of the atheist playbook and we’re supposed to explain it all to you? You’re kidding, right? I mean that sincerely–peppering people with this kind of rhetoric is not honest inquiry. It’s akin to asking a man, “How many times a day do you beat your wife?” Sorry, but I’m not in the mood to play this game.

 

[ManRay]

You bring up too many issues in one post, besides making accusations and assertions right out of the atheist playbook and we’re supposed to explain it all to you? You’re kidding, right? I mean that sincerely–peppering people with this kind of rhetoric is not honest inquiry. It’s akin to asking a man, “How many times a day do you beat your wife?” Sorry, but I’m not in the mood to play this game.

That’s no different than me saying that you are using the christian play book? What accusations? Explain to me what I’ve said that isn’t correct? I have no problem with that. There may be a lot in the post - but I think the theme is pretty coherent. How is it possible that anyone one can understand all of this? I consider my self a fairly learned guy, and I’m trying to understand what i missed in my formative years that doesn’t allow my mind to digest what others so easily digest. In my opinion a good response would be - faith - but when in any other part of our lives has faith ever amounted to an objective reality? I have faith that when I get in my car in the morning to go to work - that I will indeed make it to work - BUT the reality is - I can’t possible know that. I could very easily crash, be crashed into or have a heart attack among a plethora of other things. FAITH in something doesn’t mean that the something actually exists. Oh - and who says I’m an atheist? Regarding your last sentence - if you do know in fact a man beats his wife - it isn’t odd to ask how many times.

 

[Della]

My point is that you have simply bought into what you think is the truth instead of being sure of it. You need to read some real Church history, the Catechism and other reliable resources before thinking you know what faith is and what it expects of us. If you have questions about any or all of the issues you raised, you should start a thread for each one. That’s how we do it on CAF–because it is impossible to address every issue within one thread. Do that and we will be happy to discuss things with you. But do it without accusing the Church, instead simply ask straightforward questions–that is if you really want to know instead of simply assuming you know.

 

[thecone137]

Let must just start by stating that I mean no offense. I reason these to be the facts as I understand them.
A ‘supernatural force’ - something that exists beyond any known or objective understanding. Something that exists outside of time AND space - the only reference points that we really have at all for understanding anything remotely resembling knowledge or reality. This God - this entity created a planet, and populated it with a people so that it could share it’s love with them - and then have them return to the place that they started from in the first place. Out of the known universe - a planet that is the equivalent to one grain of sand on the largest beach in the world (and that’s even stretching it - it’s probably much more miniscule) An entity that is purported to already know what we are going to do anyway with our lives.

This sounds like an arguement for the Existence of God request. The big three today are cosmological, design, and moral arguements. Please be more specific as to which one you would like addressed.

In between all of this we have various written texts from people describing this supposed reality - a people who also believed in witchcraft, magic, mythological beasts, and all kinds of other fantastic notions that have withered away - but they were on point when speaking of god. A people who didn’t even have the first clue of the rest of the world, and all of the many other gods, and civilizations that existed (hence the God of Israel). On top of that we have a church that was created based on approximately one paragraph regarding Peter out of over 700,000 words that make up the bible. A book that has supposedly provided the template for one of the greatest schisms in modern society(abortion) -

This sounds like an arguement for the inerrancy of Scripture with an arguement for Science vs. Religion sandwiched in between. Science and Religion can be compatible. It seems to me that 500 years from now, people will most likely look back on our current scientific views think of them the same way we do about people 500 years before us. Since the Bible has over 700K(?) words, please be more specific as to which particular scriptural verse you are contending.

even though this God killed hundreds if not thousands of babies, and children. God commanded a bear to kill children because they made fun of a man - and yet god is love, and god is pro life. A church that claims that hell will never prevail against it and yet we have the inquisition, the black popes, the reformation where Jan Hus was executed IN SPITE of being PROMISED safe passage. Wycliffe - burned alive. And on, and on.

This arguement is called the problem of evil, and if you do a search on here or Google, I am sure it has been addressed many times.

Why would anyone ever think it normal for the world not to be completely torn in regards to this information? 51% of the population of America - a population full of christians who voted for a guy (bush) who believed that God spoke to him regarding invading Iraq. Why is anyone confused in regards to how much of a mess our world is in? Please explain this to me. Enlighten me.

In a great nutshell? The typical response you will get is that Christians do not think this current state of the world is “normal” in any sense of the word. We have free will and the ability to choose, so we can make mistakes like voting for people who shouldn’t be in office. Confusion occurs because life is complex, and not everyone has the answers at every point in time. I think you will need to be more specific in order to accomplish your goals on here.

 

[Linusthe2nd]

Let must just start by stating that I mean no offense. I reason these to be the facts as I understand them.
A ‘supernatural force’ - something that exists beyond any known or objective understanding. Something that exists outside of time AND space - the only reference points that we really have at all for understanding anything remotely resembling knowledge or reality. This God - this entity created a planet, and populated it with a people so that it could share it’s love with them - and then have them return to the place that they started from in the first place. Out of the known universe - a planet that is the equivalent to one grain of sand on the largest beach in the world (and that’s even stretching it - it’s probably much more miniscule) An entity that is purported to already know what we are going to do anyway with our lives. In between all of this we have various written texts from people describing this supposed reality - a people who also believed in witchcraft, magic, mythological beasts, and all kinds of other fantastic notions that have withered away - but they were on point when speaking of god. A people who didn’t even have the first clue of the rest of the world, and all of the many other gods, and civilizations that existed (hence the God of Israel). On top of that we have a church that was created based on approximately one paragraph regarding Peter out of over 700,000 words that make up the bible. A book that has supposedly provided the template for one of the greatest schisms in modern society(abortion) - even though this God killed hundreds if not thousands of babies, and children. God commanded a bear to kill children because they made fun of a man - and yet god is love, and god is pro life. A church that claims that hell will never prevail against it and yet we have the inquisition, the black popes, the reformation where Jan Hus was executed IN SPITE of being PROMISED safe passage. Wycliffe - burned alive. And on, and on. Why would anyone ever think it normal for the world not to be completely torn in regards to this information? 51% of the population of America - a population full of christians who voted for a guy (bush) who believed that God spoke to him regarding invading Iraq. Why is anyone confused in regards to how much of a mess our world is in? Please explain this to me. Enlighten me.

I don’t think it would be possible, you seem to have all the answers already.