The greater evil: poverty or abortion

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Deacon_Ed_B said:
We are not speaking of poverty as an Evangelical Council, but rather as a social evil. There are those in certain areas, due to prejudice, hatred or whatever that are oppressed. As such, this is a social evil.
Deacon Ed B
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Abortion is an act, poverty is a state of being.

There may well be acts that result in poverty, but it is those acts, not the state of being that is evil.
 
vern_humphrey said:
Abortion is an act, poverty is a state of being.

There may well be acts that result in poverty, but it is those acts, not the state of being that is evil.
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Exactly, Vern. Poverty as a state of being can be a blessing in itself and as Catholics, we know that - or at the very least, we should believe it (even as we feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, clothe the naked, etc.).
 
mary_bobo said:
With all due respect, that was not my observation after many years in the delivery room and obstetrics. Many, far too many, women come in for a second, third, fourth abortion. They are using it for birth control so that they can live like they please. And the majority of them were not living in poverty.
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I believe that you are correct marybobo. I’ve seen statistics showing that over 50% of the abortions are repeats. Although I presume that it is possible, it is tough to believe that abortion is an issue of economics.

For all those who are frantically searching for the 1 out of 50,000,000 cases that contradicts my comment, save the key strokes.
 
I am reminded of a quote by Alexander Pope at this time.
Deacon Ed B
 
ribozyme said:
I feel that asking this question is wasting my time, and will only confirm the obvious.

What is the greater evil? Poverty or abortion?

I think the former is a greater evil as those in poverty are deprived of freedom and an enriching environment to develop their abilities and enjoy life.
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abortion is poverty.

how does financial poverty deprive one of freedom or an enriching environment, or prohibit the devolopment of abilities or stop someone from enjoying life? Love can do all that—and more. Money can’t, especially devoid of Love.
 
Deacon_Ed_B said:
I just read my post. What I meant to say, was I doubt if there have been one million deaths due to poverty in our country. Compared to close to 50 million from, abortion, I would say that clearly abortion is the greater evil. These are the most defenseless among us.
Deacon Ed B
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Umm…you live in the world, not just the USA. You can’t reasonably compare abortion and poverty statistics for only the richest country in the world and expect that to extrapolate to the whole world.
catharina said:
Exactly, Vern. Poverty as a state of being can be a blessing in itself and as Catholics, we know that - or at the very least, we should believe it (even as we feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, clothe the naked, etc.).
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Amen. If only those pesky poor people in the third world would realise just how blessed they are not being able to afford to eat! At least they can’t get obese like we rich people.
Scanner said:
I enjoy these kind of discussion.

To not sit the fence, if I had to choose, I would choose abortion.

I find the forum’s labeling poverty as “evil” interesting. Yes, some poverty can be brought about by political evil (Saddam Hussein) but not all poverty can be attributed to evil.

Some poverty results from Acts of God (a tsunami, for instance) or chance, if you beleive God is hands-off in this world. I think if the forum believes that poverty is evil, then by default, they would say God would be committing evil by committing these acts.

(an illogical conclusion)
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While that might work when defining poverty in those terms, I don’t think we can really talk of poverty like that. It sounds like what we all too easily think from our comfortable first-world setting.

The problem is, much of poverty is man-made, through the choices of people. In the Philippines, as well as other Spanish colonies, poverty for the bulk of the population came about through inequitable distribution of land, an action of the conquerors.

I simply don’t think it’s feasible to claim that most poverty in the world comes about through acts of God (nature) or through choices made by those in poverty (at least, as first cause).

When you get into some depth in economic history, poverty in many places today is a combination of factors, with human behaviour as a pretty darn BIG factor.

In this context, we’re abandoning the idea of Justice that flows so strongly through the Bible. We might be walking humbly with our God, but perhaps we’re not acting justly and loving mercy as much as we should, considering the weight God placed on them.

More…
Herbert said:
Perhaps it depends how you evaluate the question.

For instance, most would agree that poverty kills more people than abortion does each year: maternal mortality, infant mortality, disease, malnutrition, and many easily prevented deaths.

The evil of poverty is that the rich of the world essentially choose to allow these deaths - poverty is a choice, a choice made by those who have the power to alleviate it.

In many parts of the world poverty exists because people who have the power to prevent it do nothing. In a Catholic country such as the Philippines this is a serious indictment of those who purport to be followers of Christ.

Also, abortion happens at a higher rate amongst those in poverty, including in the USA.

Both are evil, but the choices of the rich to not address the injustice inherent in poverty must be acknowledged as much as the choice of a girl who chooses an abortion.
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vern_humphrey said:
Abortion is an act, poverty is a state of being.

There may well be acts that result in poverty, but it is those acts, not the state of being that is evil.
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That’s my point. Poverty, as ‘committed’ by the impoverished, is a state of being.

At the same time, it’s often an act of those who neglect justice and mercy, and cause or perpetuate poverty and opression through doing so.
 
Herbert said:
That’s my point. Poverty, as ‘committed’ by the impoverished, is a state of being.

At the same time, it’s often an act of those who neglect justice and mercy, and cause or perpetuate poverty and opression through doing so.
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Glad you made your point.

Guess you didn’t notice that many of us have made that same point.
 
Yeah, sorry, didn’t see it in the last two or so pages…perhaps it was earlier on. The last few pages just felt a little …hmm…insulated first-world, poverty is simply not affording a second car, etc.

Appreciate the bluntness 😉
 
Herbert said:
Yeah, sorry, didn’t see it in the last two or so pages…perhaps it was earlier on. The last few pages just felt a little …hmm…insulated first-world, poverty is simply not affording a second car, etc.

Appreciate the bluntness 😉
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As Christians, we are required to work always to alleviate poverty. Our eternal life depends on that. We are NOT to consider poverty as an evil, but rather as a state of living.
 
Doesn’t the Declaration of Independence state that the unalienable rights of man are “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”? How can one have liberty and pursue happiness when their life is ended in the womb?
 
catharina said:
As Christians, we are required to work always to alleviate poverty. Our eternal life depends on that. We are NOT to consider poverty as an evil, but rather as a state of living.
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Yes.

Poverty itself is often merely the testimony of evil committed by man. Essentially then, *allowing *poverty could well turn out to be as great an evil as *allowing *abortion…what if the statistics for poverty are worse than those for abortion, for instance? Or that abortion occurs in greater incident in the poorer sector of society?

As an aside, where I live, a whole raft of anti-life outcomes spring from poverty.
 
catharina said:
As Christians, we are required to work always to alleviate poverty. Our eternal life depends on that. We are NOT to consider poverty as an evil, but rather as a state of living.
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And Social Justice (as opposed to charity) requires us to correct the conditions that cause poverty.
The Parable of the Sunken Ship
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A ship sank in the middle of the ocean. The survivors floated under the blazing sun in the life rafts, without food and water. Then a plane flew over and dropped food, water, chapstick and sun block.
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A few days later, another plane flew over and dropped more food, water, chapstick and sun block. And another a few days later. And so it went, week after week, month after month – a drop of food, water, chapstick and sun block every few days.
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And finally one of the survivors said, “I don’t want to seem ungrateful, and I really appreciate all this food, water, chapstick and sun block, but don’t you think it would be cheaper if they’d just take us ashore, and we could find our own food, water, chapstick and sun block?”
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buffalo said:
Life issues always trump quality of life issues.
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And that’s often a perception problem of our own, that poverty is merely a *quality of life *issue. Unfortunately, for a vast number of people in today’s world, it’s a life issue.
 
Herbert said:
And that’s often a perception problem of our own, that poverty is merely a *quality of life *issue. Unfortunately, for a vast number of people in today’s world, it’s a life issue.
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Nope - without life there can be no poverty.
 
buffalo said:
Nope - without life there can be no poverty.
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What do you mean, “nope”? Nope, poverty is not a life issue for kids that starve to death? :confused:

It seems many of them have been fooled into thinking it was…

Unfortunately, while such one line summary statements look great in ‘Chicken Soup for the Soul’ they’re not really answers to the hard situations we can see in the world (if we travel).
 
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