The Greatest Commandment

[guadalupe_fire]

Hi Everyone,

Lately I’ve been having a discussion with a friend about Once Saved Always Saved. I’ve been able to deal with most of the arguments presented, but there is one I haven’t found an answer to. I tried looking for a discussion of it in past threads, but didn’t come up with anything.

Here is the argument: Our Lord told us that the greatest commandment was to love God with all our heart, soul, and mind (Matt 22:37-38). Since not very many people can claim to be doing this every moment of their lives, we are in fact breaking the greatest commandment every moment we don’t keep it. Therefore, we are constantly sinning, and can never be justified.

Any idea how to reply to this? Thanks in advance…

 

[Pitcharan]

Hi Everyone,

Lately I’ve been having a discussion with a friend about Once Saved Always Saved. I’ve been able to deal with most of the arguments presented, but there is one I haven’t found an answer to. I tried looking for a discussion of it in past threads, but didn’t come up with anything.

Here is the argument: Our Lord told us that the greatest commandment was to love God with all our heart, soul, and mind (Matt 22:37-38). Since not very many people can claim to be doing this every moment of their lives, we are in fact breaking the greatest commandment every moment we don’t keep it. Therefore, we are constantly sinning, and can never be justified.

Any idea how to reply to this? Thanks in advance…

We were justified in advance for the sins we would naturally commit. Our Lord has already finished His part in our salvation, viz., Justification. Our part is left, i.e. sanctification, for which we are offered every conceivable aid by our Lord, His saints and the HS. However He does not interfere with our choice and we have our free will. His influence is limited to enlightening us and even giving a foretaste of the consequences of either choice (good or evil). We are also free to reject His Justification and choose Hell. If we gratefully accept His Justification and thereafter if our sanctification is incomplete when we die, we will be purged in purgatory. The final stage Glorification will be by God the Father after Quayyamat (last judgement)

 

[Pitcharan]

Hi Everyone,

Lately I’ve been having a discussion with a friend about Once Saved Always Saved. I’ve been able to deal with most of the arguments presented, but there is one I haven’t found an answer to. I tried looking for a discussion of it in past threads, but didn’t come up with anything.

Here is the argument: Our Lord told us that the greatest commandment was to love God with all our heart, soul, and mind (Matt 22:37-38). Since not very many people can claim to be doing this every moment of their lives, we are in fact breaking the greatest commandment every moment we don’t keep it. Therefore, we are constantly sinning, and can never be justified.

Any idea how to reply to this? Thanks in advance…

The ‘love command’ is the enabler and ‘grace provider’ to fulfill God’s commandments. It is the means for a glorious end.

• We were justified in advance for the sins we would naturally commit. Our Lord has already finished His part in our salvation, viz., Justification.
• Our part is left, i.e. sanctification, which is the process of breaking-free from the slavery to sin. God does not interfere with our choice and we have our free will.
• His influence is limited to enlightening***** us and even giving a foretaste of heaven and hell which are the imminent consequences of our choice (good or evil).
• We are also free to reject His Justification and choose Hell.
• If we gratefully accept His Justification, we are offered every conceivable aid by our Lord, His saints and the HS.
• Despite all our struggles, if our sanctification is incomplete when we die, then we will be purged in purgatory.
• The final stage Glorification will be by God the Father after Quayyamat (last judgement)

*****The greatest enlightenment is the Love command itself.

 

[pablope]

Hi Everyone,

Lately I’ve been having a discussion with a friend about Once Saved Always Saved. I’ve been able to deal with most of the arguments presented, but there is one I haven’t found an answer to. I tried looking for a discussion of it in past threads, but didn’t come up with anything.

Here is the argument: Our Lord told us that the greatest commandment was to love God with all our heart, soul, and mind (Matt 22:37-38). Since not very many people can claim to be doing this every moment of their lives, we are in fact breaking the greatest commandment every moment we don’t keep it. Therefore, we are constantly sinning, and can never be justified.

Any idea how to reply to this? Thanks in advance…

Sorry…Am confused a little with your post.

The Matt 22 passage, is that coming from you or from your friend? And you need to refute it?

But look at Heb 10… 26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God…36 You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised.

And how do we, as catholics, can persevere? Through the sacrament of Confession…which avails to us the grace of God’s mercy and forgiveness…and through confession…it allows to to grow in grace…moving from a purgative state of grace to a unitive state of grace with Christ.

newadvent.org/cathen/14254a.htm

The purgative way is the way, or state, of those who are beginners, that is, those who have obtained justification, but have not their passions and evil inclinations in such a state of subjugation that they can easily overcome temptations, and who, in order to preserve and exercise charity and the other virtues have to keep up a continual warfare within themselves. It is so called because the chief concern of the soul in this state is to resist and to overcome the passions by nourishing, strengthening, and cherishing the virtue of charity. This can and ought to be done not only by keeping the Commandments,

The illuminative way is that of those who are in the state of progress and have their passions better under control, so that they easily keep themselves from mortal sin, but who do not so easily avoid venial sins, because they still take pleasure in earthly things and allow their minds to be distracted by various imaginations and their hearts with numberless desires, though not in matters that are strictly unlawful. It is called the illuminative way, because in it the mind becomes more and more enlightened as to spiritual things and the practice of virtue.

 

[dogknox]

Hi Everyone,

Lately I’ve been having a discussion with a friend about Once Saved Always Saved. I’ve been able to deal with most of the arguments presented, but there is one I haven’t found an answer to. I tried looking for a discussion of it in past threads, but didn’t come up with anything.

Here is the argument: Our Lord told us that the greatest commandment was to love God with all our heart, soul, and mind (Matt 22:37-38). Since not very many people can claim to be doing this every moment of their lives, we are in fact breaking the greatest commandment every moment we don’t keep it. Therefore, we are constantly sinning, and can never be justified.

Any idea how to reply to this? Thanks in advance…

guadalupe_fire ** hello good to meet you…
Scriptures… answer your question…
25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”
27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”
28 “You have answered correctly,”** Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

**guadalupe_fire ** The man answered correctly… Jesus does NOT LIE!
To be explicit Jesus continues with the “Good Samaritan” story!
Samaritans have zero faith!!! They are considered heathen!
The Samaritan “Loved Neighbor” he will have eternal life!
The Priest and the Levite are considered “Religious full of FAITH!” These “Faith ALONE” people do not have love thus their "faith ALONE" does not save them!

The Goats and the Sheep story at the last judgement! (Matt 25) The Sheep go to heaven because they do RIGHT, they are RIGHTEOUS, they LOVE neighbor!
The Goats have “faith ALONE” they go to the “Burning Lake of Fire”!
Both the sheep & the goats have faith both ask the exact same question… "Lord WHEN did we GIVE**/**NOT GIVE to you!? Both say LORD both have Faith but the Sheep have faith PLUS LOVE!!

The Sheep in the story are** RIGHTEOUS** because they do RIGHT!

**guadalupe_fire ** Then Sheep are NOT working they are >>GIVING<<!!
GIVING is not expecting reward or a wage!
“GIVING” is actions of the heart>> LOVE<<!
**Your question… **

Therefore, we are constantly sinning, and can never be justified.

1 John 3:7
Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous.

Do you see it??** “DOING RIGHT makes us Righteous!”** The “RIGHTEOUS go to heaven!”

**guadalupe_fire ** LOVE removes sins… This is the answer to your question!!!
Luke 7:44 Then he turned towards the woman and said to Simon, Do you see this woman? I came into your house. You did not give me any water for my feet, but she wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair.
45 You did not give me a kiss, but this woman, from the time I entered, has not stopped kissing my feet.
46 You did not put oil on my head, but she has poured perfume on my feet.
47 Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven— for she loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little.
48 Then Jesus said to her, Your sins are forgiven.

**Do you see it?? **Not LOVING or little love removes few sins!

John 5 :28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice
29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

Dogknox

 

[guadalupe_fire]

Sorry…Am confused a little with your post.

The Matt 22 passage, is that coming from you or from your friend? And you need to refute it?

My friend presented the argument, and supplied the verse as proof that we constantly breaking the greatest commandment.

Thanks for replying, I’m starting to understand this…

 

[bogeydogg]

My friend presented the argument, and supplied the verse as proof that we constantly breaking the greatest commandment.

Thanks for replying, I’m starting to understand this…

You must remind him that all men everywhere are commanded not only to believe that Christ is Lord, in which the good fruits are produced from the Holy Spirit living in us. Classically this has been defined as having been justified we are being sanctified by participating in the life of Christ, but your friend would call this having been saved and may deny participating altogether.

But there is a second command one that is given because God knows we will sin.

All men everywhere are also called to repent of their sins and believe that the Lord is faithful and just to forgive us our sins.

So we are to believe*** and ***repent, this is what it means to be sanctified and the end of this is salvation.

The one who stresses OSAS will never get around to the repent and receive forgiveness of sins part because his system will not allow it. He cannot accept absolution from a priest because he tells himself he is already saved no matter what and so he has to make light of his sin. Of course no one will admit that they are doing this, but that is what is happening.

After all if I cannot resist the grace of salvation and I am saved now and forever then of what use is repentance? But we are commanded to repent because what greater show of love and trust toward God could we ever have than to approach God knowing we have failed and believe that he has and will forgive us our sins and take us back.

It is the one who believes he needs not repent who slanders God because ultimately he believes he has no sin, at least none so severe that he has to confess it and receive absolution.

I think that is why so many churches today basically view baptism as an initiation rite because having erased the command to repent and receive forgiveness of sins they have also erased the assurance that comes from hearing the preist announce the grace of God and by Christ’s command forgive us all of our sins. So they have to cling to the one confession and the signed prayer card because they have no sacramental reassurance that their faith is real and God has forgiven them all of their sins.

Remember…

Believe that Christ is Lord

Repent and receive forgiveness of sin

It is the second command which causes OSAS to fall on its head once it is properly understood.

God Bless

 

[guadalupe_fire]

Sincere thanks to the replies… I just need one more thing cleared up. Is it a yes then, that we are constantly sinning by not keeping the greatest commandment every minute of every day?

 

[bogeydogg]

Sincere thanks to the replies… I just need one more thing cleared up. Is it a yes then, that we are constantly sinning by not keeping the greatest commandment every minute of every day?

Yes we sin everyday, but to repent is also to obey the command of God.

I don’t think we sin every single second, but we do sin in though word and deed everyday, but we also repent and God forgives and that is what empowers us to continue in our sanctification. It is God working in us.

God Bless

 

[Mintaka]

Your friend seems to think that love is an emotion, whereas the Church teaches that love is a thing of the will. Just as one can generally will to be praying constantly and thus carry out the command to pray always (as experienced monks and nuns often achieve), so people experienced in love can will to love God and neighbor all the time. Dryness of emotion is beside the point; the will can be trained to be more consistent as the person lives a more and more holy life in Christ.

This is why really good people, experienced in the spiritual life, just don’t look like the rest of us. They orient themselves toward God all day, every day, in the will to love and to pray, and it changes them.

 

[Sacred_Heart_1]

Hi Everyone,

Lately I’ve been having a discussion with a friend about Once Saved Always Saved. I’ve been able to deal with most of the arguments presented, but there is one I haven’t found an answer to. I tried looking for a discussion of it in past threads, but didn’t come up with anything.

Here is the argument: Our Lord told us that the greatest commandment was to love God with all our heart, soul, and mind (Matt 22:37-38). Since not very many people can claim to be doing this every moment of their lives, we are in fact breaking the greatest commandment every moment we don’t keep it. Therefore, we are constantly sinning, and can never be justified.

Any idea how to reply to this? Thanks in advance…

Perfection is something you work at. It is not something you become in an instant. You are justified everytime you act by the way of God. You are not expected by God to become God’s only begotten Son, you are expected merely to seek him out. So even if you constantly sin there is always repentance and even in repentance you are justified. Repentance is acting by the way of God and everytime you act by the way of God you are justified. Whoever repents their sins within their heart is forgiven by God. And whoever is forgiven by God is justified by God.

 

[maplebug55]

I don’t think we sin every single second, but we do sin in though word and deed everyday,

Really? I know this sounds prideful but I do not sin all three, EVERY day.

 

[pablope]

Sincere thanks to the replies… I just need one more thing cleared up. Is it a yes then, that we are constantly sinning by not keeping the greatest commandment every minute of every day?

Yes…but we can also seek forgiveness, so long as not mortal…everysecond of the day everyday…

If you read the link I gave you…you would have come across this…

This state, although, in one sense, it is imperfect, in another sense may be called a state of perfection, because the soul remains united to God by grace and charity so long as it is free from the stain of mortal sin. Purity of soul may be said to be the proper end of the purgative way, and the forms of prayer suitable for this way or state are meditations on sin and its consequences, and on death, judgment, hell, and heaven. The acts which aid toward uprooting the remnants and habits of former sins, and preventing one from ever returning to them, are corporal austerities, mortification of the appetite, abnegation of one’s own will, and conformity to the will of God. In a word, the distinctive notes of this state are war against those temptations which entice the soul to sin by the attraction of pleasures of the senses and the natural shrinking from pain; and repugnance to acts known to be contrary to the will of God. The characteristic virtue of this state is humility, by which the soul is made sensible of its own weakness and its dependence upon the succours of the grace of God.

 

[fred_conty]

“heart,soul,mind” means top of the list.
For example, a child loves its mother, but from time to time disobeys.
If little Johnny runs across the street, or dosen’t come to supper when he is
called, or dosen’t put his things away when told, or makes a huge fuss at
bed time, or is continually a problem, then …from this Johnny dosen’t love his mother,
either a lot or a little.

“…thy kingdom come, THY WILL be done, on earth as it is in heaven…”

But emotions do count also. Johnny gives his mother a big big hug and kiss.
His mother turns to puddy.

God likes our hugs and kisses also. He is so good to us.

“unless you become like little children…”

Just a thought from our loving creator.

 

[fhansen]

Hi Everyone,

Lately I’ve been having a discussion with a friend about Once Saved Always Saved. I’ve been able to deal with most of the arguments presented, but there is one I haven’t found an answer to. I tried looking for a discussion of it in past threads, but didn’t come up with anything.

Here is the argument: Our Lord told us that the greatest commandment was to love God with all our heart, soul, and mind (Matt 22:37-38). Since not very many people can claim to be doing this every moment of their lives, we are in fact breaking the greatest commandment every moment we don’t keep it. Therefore, we are constantly sinning, and can never be justified.

Any idea how to reply to this? Thanks in advance…

In Catholicism, justification is a process. Scripture tells us that no sinners will enter heaven. This means that, by Gods grace working out our salvation with our cooperation, we *will * eventually love Him with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength and our neighbor as ourselves. I doubt we’d have to be conscious of his fact on a moment by moment basis; it just needs to be the truth in regards to *who we are. *This is how God created man to be.

 

[bogeydogg]

bogeydogg;8910718:

I don’t think we sin every single second, but we do sin in though word and deed everyday,

Really? I know this sounds prideful but I do not sin all three, EVERY day.

Than I am extremely happy for you and I pray God continues to bless you and your walk.

God Bless

 

[Swiss_Guy]

Here is the argument: Our Lord told us that the greatest commandment was to love God with all our heart, soul, and mind (Matt 22:37-38). Since not very many people can claim to be doing this every moment of their lives, we are in fact breaking the greatest commandment every moment we don’t keep it. Therefore, we are constantly sinning, and can never be justified.

Any idea how to reply to this? Thanks in advance…

If we don’t keep it accidentally, it’s a venial sin. I’m guessing your friend doesn’t understand the difference between venial and mortal sins, so that’s the real issue. But if we don’t have charity in our hearts, we don’t have God or eternal life.

Now, justification is a process, meaning we are justified first in Baptism, but everyday by the grace of God we work to come closer to him and become more righteous. We aren’t perfect, but with God’s grace anything is possible.