The Greatest Commandment

[Suzie1962]

While reading another thread titled “Let’s just focus on our disagreements,” I have noticed some interesting discussion that has given me a bit of pause. After a posting about a young man who leaves the Church because he has belonged to his parish for years and has never felt loved, the general consensus seems to be that the young man should have no expectation of being loved in/by his parish and is being self-centered to be dissatisfied by this perceived lack of human love.

NotWorthy points out in that thread that Jesus’ greatest command was to “love one another as I have loved you,” which it would seem the young man leaving his church felt had not happened within his parish. If it is self-centered for the young man to expect to experience human love within the parish, then how does the parish fulfill the commandment to love one another? If loving one another doesn’t refer to human love, then how are we expected to fulfill the command?

 

[AlanFromWichita]

I think human love is a model for love of the Divine.

That’s why I think God separated humankind into man and woman, so that in a marriage we get to experience a type of unity with a creature different than ourselves that goes beyond surface differences.

While there are any number of explanations why a boy would not feel loved, it should be at least a huge red flag to the pastor of any Church that there are people leaving here saying that.

Commercial companies plan on a dissatisfied customer telling at least 10 others about it, and most often never actually tells the offending company, even on a follow-up survey. This means market share loss and unhappy investors, so companies are extremely interested in why customers leave mad. :banghead:

My guess is the Church probably has about the same thing going with parishioners as customers, as it were, in terms of they are coming to receive a spiritual product or service. Some people who are disappointed with the Church spend their whole lives crusading against it, so they may tell way more than 10 people. Like it or not, they will do that, so regardless of who’s to blame, what is this young man’s specific beef – or unmet expectation – and what can we do if not to serve him but to reduce the number of hims there are in the future. All this, or course, subject to physical constraints such as funding and volunteer power.

Remember we can have everything in the world in perfect order, prophesy, speak in tongues, obtain all knowledge of heaven and earth, and if we have not love we are nothing.

Let Love Lead. Without that, nothing else matters. :crying:

Alan

 

[Grace_and_Glory]

I think it’s a little of both. We have to be loving, but one shouldn’t come to church just to be loved by other people.
If you believe in the Real Presence, you see that there is nothing worth giving that up for. Leaving a Church with the Eucharist for a church with better fellowship is a self-centered decision if you know Who is present in the Eucharist. When we go to Church, we go to worship God and to encounter Jesus, not to make new friends or to have a social club.
On the other hand, we are called to love one another. We have to reach out to others, particularly those who feel alone or abandoned. There are little ways we can make other people feel loved without disrupting the Mass. For example, we can really look other people in the eye during the sign of peace instead of just giving a halfhearted handshake. We can also have fellowship after Mass, in Bible studies, or in other activities.
We know that at Mass, we experience both a vertical and a horizontal fellowship–the vertical relationship between God and man, and the horizontal relationship between all men. The key is not to focus on one to the exclusion of the other, but to realize that our neighbor is best served if we first serve God, and that love of God entails also loving our neighbor.

 

[Suzie1962]

Alan and Grace, thank you so much for your responses. While I understand that the purpose of mass is not socialization, NotWorthy’s story of the aforementioned young man struck a cord with me because I could identify with it, I guess. I am slowly making my way back toward the RCC (I think), and I clearly remember the feeling of having belonged to the parish for years and never really feeling like I belonged there - never even knowing the names of the other parishioners. I certainly have to share the responsibility for this, since I didn’t really make much of an effort to reach out to others, either.

Anyway, thanks for your responses.

 

[NotWorthy]

Since I started this debate, I have to add my two cents worth. The story by Father Larry Richard can be found on The Mary Foundation’s numerous free CD’s they offer. I don’t feel I gave it justice, or it wouldn’t have caused some angst.

The story struck a cord with me, also, because I worry about my parish. It’s been stuck in limbo, where only a few do most of the stewardship, which leads to burnout. I recently started teaching the adult education class, and it’s helped rejuvenate me. I, and four others from our parish, recently attended an “Acts” Retreat (which I heartily recommend). The five of us are burning to bring this excitement into our parish. We’re starting up a Bible Study Group and getting the Renew groups started back up again. It’s a small parish, so the five of us can make a huge difference.

The love the young man feels is lacking in the story is the love we get from fellowship. Not necessarily in the Mass, but in our Parish Family. I feel that if people come to Mass and feel welcome, they will come back. Yes, this is not the reason to come to Mass. But I feel this will plant a seed that will grow in each and every one of us. When this seed blossoms, then they can grow in the love of God and Church. I attended Church for years without the “love of Christ” that I feel now. We called it “Mechanical Catholics” instead of “Cradle Catholics” because some CC’s are full of love for God.

I reiterate, every one of Jesus sermons was ultimately about Love. It was the central core of his being (God is Love)! We need to share that love with our family. Who is our family? Every one!

Thanks for your patience,

Notworthy

 

[Grace_and_Glory]

I’m going to chime in again here.
I heard the story on the CD, and I did think it struck a chord. I guess from an objective standpoint, it would be great if everyone were at a spiritual state where it didn’t matter what fellowship they had, they still went to Mass. On the other hand, as humans we are social creatures, created for relationship with God and with each other. While it is certainly possible to grow close to God in the absence of human fellowship, it can be a difficult road, especially for those who are new in faith, are struggling in faith, or are just going through a difficult time. While I still believe that it is self-centered to knowingly turn away from Christ’s special Presence in the Eucharist in order to have more fellowship, I also know that it can be very hard when it seems like you’re all by yourself. When I stated that before, it probably didn’t come out as compassionately as I would have liked–it’s hard sometimes on these online forums. I have been so lucky to have such a good fellowship of believers where I am. It helps immeasurably to have people to talk to in a Catholic context when things go wrong, or even just to joke with about the things particularly Catholic (like funny confession stories). The important thing is to focus on Christ even when we feel alone, but I think that we need to recognize that part of human nature is the desire to be known and loved by other people. It would certainly be nice if everyone was far enough in their spiritual journey that they could persist without feeling loved by the human members of God’s family, but as Christians, we are to do everything possible to strengthen the faith of our weak brothers (see 1 Cor 8:11-12).

 

[NotWorthy]

John 13:35 - ***This is how all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another

***NotWorthy