The greatest promise...?

[hansard]

What do you think is the greatest promise of Catholicism (or indeed, Christianity)?

My 8 year old daughter (tonight): Dad, when you die, do you stay dead?
Me: Yes, well, your body does. But do you believe in God?
She: Yes, I think so.
Me: Well, God’s biggest promise, the most important one, is that when we die we don’t just stay dead. Our body does–you wouldn’t want a wrinkly old body forever, or a sick one, or an injured one. Our bodies aren’t really that good, are they?
She: No.
Me: But God promised that we would have a new body–one that could zip around the stars, appear, disappear, kind of like an angel. And your soul, the special part of you that lives on, will be put into this brand new body, and your old, wrinkly, sick body won’t matter any more.
She: That sounds nice.
Me: Indeed. That’s the promise God made if you believe in him and live a good life.

A touching conversation that went further into “why can’t we know when we’ll die?” and “when will you and mummy die?” Remember she is only 8.

To me, it’s all about avoiding an unending death; the comfort in thinking that we still might live on somewhere, somehow. You can be a good Christian, Muslim or whatever, but at the end of the day, fear of just ceasing to exist probably drives our thinking. The end of your life stands as an unknowable, yet certain date. It’s the day you will be shut down, like flicking the switch on an android. You can’t avoid it. To many people, it’s utterly terrifying; to others, simply depressing. To the genuinely faithful, I suppose it’s your date with happiness and great joy.
I find funerals hugely upsetting, even if I barely knew the person. It’s the thought that, okay, they might have gone to Heaven or whatever state of existence there may be, but the fact is that I will never see them on this earth again. Never. They are gone. Dead and buried. That’s the only certainty we have, really, isn’t it–that death is final, brutally final.

(As an aside, I suppose that’s why reincarnation has such appeal to certain people, because it’s not reliant on any particular religion or any rituals, ceremonies or texts. To a dedicated reincarnationist, everyone is on the same journey, going through the same processes.)

You might say, “No, God’s greatest promise is that he loves us” and that’s true, but if he loves us, isn’t the whole point that he will save us from the grave? Wasn’t that the whole point of Christ–to pay a penalty he didn’t have to, just to save us from an eternity of death?

This is why I struggle with the idea of faith: knowing that I will die one day, not being able to really handle that fact, and bitterly disappointed that it was set up this way.

 

[fhansen]

What do you think is the greatest promise of Catholicism (or indeed, Christianity)?

My 8 year old daughter (tonight): Dad, when you die, do you stay dead?
Me: Yes, well, your body does. But do you believe in God?
She: Yes, I think so.
Me: Well, God’s biggest promise, the most important one, is that when we die we don’t just stay dead. Our body does–you wouldn’t want a wrinkly old body forever, or a sick one, or an injured one. Our bodies aren’t really that good, are they?
She: No.
Me: But God promised that we would have a new body–one that could zip around the stars, appear, disappear, kind of like an angel. And your soul, the special part of you that lives on, will be put into this brand new body, and your old, wrinkly, sick body won’t matter any more.
She: That sounds nice.
Me: Indeed. That’s the promise God made if you believe in him and live a good life.

A touching conversation that went further into “why can’t we know when we’ll die?” and “when will you and mummy die?” Remember she is only 8.

To me, it’s all about avoiding an unending death; the comfort in thinking that we still might live on somewhere, somehow. You can be a good Christian, Muslim or whatever, but at the end of the day, fear of just ceasing to exist probably drives our thinking. The end of your life stands as an unknowable, yet certain date. It’s the day you will be shut down, like flicking the switch on an android. You can’t avoid it. To many people, it’s utterly terrifying; to others, simply depressing. To the genuinely faithful, I suppose it’s your date with happiness and great joy.
I find funerals hugely upsetting, even if I barely knew the person. It’s the thought that, okay, they might have gone to Heaven or whatever state of existence there may be, but the fact is that I will never see them on this earth again. Never. They are gone. Dead and buried. That’s the only certainty we have, really, isn’t it–that death is final, brutally final.

(As an aside, I suppose that’s why reincarnation has such appeal to certain people, because it’s not reliant on any particular religion or any rituals, ceremonies or texts. To a dedicated reincarnationist, everyone is on the same journey, going through the same processes.)

You might say, “No, God’s greatest promise is that he loves us” and that’s true, but if he loves us, isn’t the whole point that he will save us from the grave? Wasn’t that the whole point of Christ–to pay a penalty he didn’t have to, just to save us from an eternity of death?

This is why I struggle with the idea of faith: knowing that I will die one day, not being able to really handle that fact, and bitterly disappointed that it was set up this way.

But isn’t faith the very gift that gives us hope? And the virtue of hope is said to be something more akin to confidence. The Resurrection is the linchpin in Christianity, one that brings together our understanding of God’s will for and love for man-so we won’t have to live in fear of non-existence, for one thing.

 

[FrStevenJones]

What do you think is the greatest promise of Catholicism (or indeed, Christianity)?

My 8 year old daughter (tonight): Dad, when you die, do you stay dead?
Me: Yes, well, your body does. But do you believe in God?
She: Yes, I think so.
Me: Well, God’s biggest promise, the most important one, is that when we die we don’t just stay dead. Our body does–you wouldn’t want a wrinkly old body forever, or a sick one, or an injured one. Our bodies aren’t really that good, are they?
She: No.
Me: But God promised that we would have a new body–one that could zip around the stars, appear, disappear, kind of like an angel. And your soul, the special part of you that lives on, will be put into this brand new body, and your old, wrinkly, sick body won’t matter any more.
She: That sounds nice.
Me: Indeed. That’s the promise God made if you believe in him and live a good life.

A touching conversation that went further into “why can’t we know when we’ll die?” and “when will you and mummy die?” Remember she is only 8.

To me, it’s all about avoiding an unending death; the comfort in thinking that we still might live on somewhere, somehow. You can be a good Christian, Muslim or whatever, but at the end of the day, fear of just ceasing to exist probably drives our thinking. The end of your life stands as an unknowable, yet certain date. It’s the day you will be shut down, like flicking the switch on an android. You can’t avoid it. To many people, it’s utterly terrifying; to others, simply depressing. To the genuinely faithful, I suppose it’s your date with happiness and great joy.
I find funerals hugely upsetting, even if I barely knew the person. It’s the thought that, okay, they might have gone to Heaven or whatever state of existence there may be, but the fact is that I will never see them on this earth again. Never. They are gone. Dead and buried. That’s the only certainty we have, really, isn’t it–that death is final, brutally final.

(As an aside, I suppose that’s why reincarnation has such appeal to certain people, because it’s not reliant on any particular religion or any rituals, ceremonies or texts. To a dedicated reincarnationist, everyone is on the same journey, going through the same processes.)

You might say, “No, God’s greatest promise is that he loves us” and that’s true, but if he loves us, isn’t the whole point that he will save us from the grave? Wasn’t that the whole point of Christ–to pay a penalty he didn’t have to, just to save us from an eternity of death?

This is why I struggle with the idea of faith: knowing that I will die one day, not being able to really handle that fact, and bitterly disappointed that it was set up this way.

Thanks for sharing that poignant conversation with your daughter.

Please don’t be “bitterly dissapointed”. If we had never lived we would not have to face the grave. Death of our bodies is a gift, because it drives us to seek the One who can save us from eternal death!

 

[GEddie]

Thanks for sharing that poignant conversation with your daughter.

Please don’t be “bitterly dissapointed”. If we had never lived we would not have to face the grave. Death of our bodies is a gift, because it drives us to seek the One who can save us from eternal death!

I stand with Hansard.

I hate death with everything in me; and the standard teaching that we will exist as “spirits” for some unknown length of time is to me hideous. I need my limbs/eyes/head/nose/skin, etc! What good is an existence where one cannot move, see, know, touch or smell?

It even causes me to resent those who will be alive at the end, and to have difficulty with the Assumption of Mary, etc. If death could be taken away for some, why not for all!!!

I will NEVER see bodily death as a gift. If it is a gift, it is one I wish I could reject!

ICXC NIKA

 

[Used2beSherryG]

Well, this life is but a blink of an eye in God’s eternal realm, which is why each human being has an innate longing for God, whether each recognizes what that longing is for or not. People lost in darkness tend to search, oftentimes in vain, resorting to satisfaction of bodily urges (sins of the flesh) including sexual gratification in, of and for itself, drugs and alcohol to dull the mind, etc. We are made by God, for God and we will be united with him fully after the death of our carcass! When you get old and decrepit, you may feel more happy to cross over, however many who have had near death experiences report that they were truly sad or regretful to have to take on their body again and be separated from Christ. It’s a big subject, and we with our limited intelligence (in comparison with Almighty God ) do no and probably cannot fully understand it now. We hope in Christ for eternal salvation.

 

[R_C]

Wow, thanks so much for sharing this with us. It is a blessing!

It reminds me of a story I was reading regarding the death of a group of Trappist monks, the martyrs of Atlas. These monks had a wonderful relationship with the villagers (mind you, we are in a Muslim environment), and when an armed group intent in overthrowing the government threatened to kill them if they refused collaboration, they not only refused collaboration, but also refused to abandon the place. In fact, it is known from the survivors that the armed militia had entered the monastery on Christmas eve, and the abbot told them that weapons were not allowed and that they were disturbing the monks who were welcoming the birth of the Prince of Peace, which to everyone’s amazement led to the group leader apologizing and leaving the premises. Unfortunately it was clear that trouble would eventually ensue. After a few years, seven monks were kidnapped and executed. The striking fact is that their peaceful presence during those years in which they basically awaited martyrdom was a great testimony of true faith and true love to the peoples in the area, as opposed to the testimony of those who falsely employed religion for their purposes, through violence. And the most striking fact is that the abbot left a testament foreknowing he would eventually die, which reads as follows:

If it should happen one day - and it could be today - that I become a victim of the terrorism…I would like my community, my Church and my family to remember that my life was GIVEN…I ask them to accept the fact that the One Master of all life was not a stranger to this brutal departure…I would ask them to pray for me: for how could I be found worthy of such an offering? I ask them to associate this death with so many other equally violent ones which are forgotten through indifference or anonymity…

…In this THANK YOU, which is said for everything in my life from now on, I certainly include you, friends of yesterday and today, and you, my friends of this place, along with my mother and father, my sisters and brothers and their families…And also you, my last-minute friend, who will not have known what you were doing: Yes, I want this THANK YOU and this GOODBYE to be a “GOD-BLESS” for you, too, because in God’s face I see yours. May we meet again as happy thieves in Paradise, if it please God, the Father of us both. Amen! InchAllah!

Yes, indeed, the Good News is just this: God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. He who hears the words of Christ shall never die, and even if he be dead, he shall live. Even further, we shall be transformed in the blink of an eye, our mortality clothed with immortality, our corruptibility clothed with incorruptibility. To the Catholic heart, death is not the end, but the beginning of life, indeed the day of happy matrimony with the Beloved Spouse.

God’s love is not God’s greatest promise or the Good News: God’s love is God’s greatest gift. In fact, the very fact of Christ giving Himself, or the Father giving the only Son, is a gift of love, and the coming of the Holy Spirit is a gift of love.

Not knowing how to handle something, be it death, be it life, is not a matter of discouragement. Our reaction of fear, pressure, and anxiety is triggered by the combined efforts of the world, our corrupt nature, and the father of lies , collectively termed the spirit against Christ. It is a reaction of doubt, no, worse: of distrust. In fact, this is like standing in the storm, not knowing how to control what is happening, and asking God: “don’t you care if we die?” This is our lesson of dependence: we need God, and we need to trust in Him, that He will take care of us. If only we would raise our eyes and focus on Christ rather than on the storm, we would forget ourselves and notice His extended hand, the hand of He who said: “I am the Resurrection and the Life”, and us too, like the humble fisherman, would find ourselves walking on water.

 

[fred_conty]

I stand with Hansard.

I hate death with everything in me; and the standard teaching that we will exist as “spirits” for some unknown length of time is to me hideous. I need my limbs/eyes/head/nose/skin, etc! What good is an existence where one cannot move, see, know, touch or smell?

It even causes me to resent those who will be alive at the end, and to have difficulty with the Assumption of Mary, etc. If death could be taken away for some, why not for all!!!

I will NEVER see bodily death as a gift. If it is a gift, it is one I wish I could reject!

ICXC NIKA

Bodily death is not the gift Christ gave us, it is the bodily resurrection. Death of the body was the punishment handed down to mankind for sin.

As far as not having bodily senses after death, the angels never had bodily senses and yet are perfectly happy. But at the resurrection day, our bodies will be renewed and will never want for anything again, mainly because they will share in the soul’s emmense joy, which is being enjoyed in heaven right now by those who were faithful. And also in heaven we do know others and communicate with them in a different way. In other words we really don’t die, just the part of us that does not inhibit true happiness, of enjoying the one who loved us from the beginning, Jesus.

Sometimes we get numbed by the technicalities of our faith, the dead explainations. But in reality, Jesus made us our of pure love from the very beginning. He had so much love and joy that the Trinity wished others to know and enjoy what true love is. And so here we are because he wishes us to share in the joy and great love he had from eternity. For no other reason, just because he loves us and wants us to be with him and have his supreme bliss that would make a rich life on this plant seem like dribble. He loves us just because he is who he is, Love itself. And he will take us in his heavenly arms forever and make us wish we had only done more out of love for him while on earth. The greatness and depth of God is immeasurable for us.

And it is thru this door of death that we enter his embrace to experience what peace and joy really is.

Just a thought.​

“Come Lord Jesus, come. Come and fill my heart with your life. Hold me close, Lord hold me tight, and come Lord Jesus come.” (hymn)