The growth of Islam

[Lenten_ashes]

I’m not quite sure many of you would realize this… but there’s a kind of strange civil war going on in the Left on both sides of the Atlantic.

If i had broadly characterize this split - its essentially the Far Left Social Justice Warrior Branch vs. the Libertarian/Classical Liberal/Freedom of Speech Branch of which many New Atheists tend to fall under.

youtube.com/watch?v=vln9D81eO60

if i might summarize, this is the New Atheist Icon Sam Harris and a Bill Maher attempting to offer a criticism against Islam(ism) while being castigated by Hollywood actor Ben Affleck as being “Gross and racist.”

So - the New Atheists basically spent a better part of a decade leading the charge against well…you guys in whatever particular format of Christianity that you observe. They really didn’t have much to say about specific religions outside of yours besides a blanket disdain for religion in general.

The only person who ever spoke publicly from the Left against Islam was the late author, critic, and gadfly Christopher Hitchens who was subsequently “booted” from the Political Left and branded as what the Americans would call a “neo-conservative.”

Toward the end of the decade however, it seems the sun had risen in their minds and they had discovered a major breakthrough realization: Not all Religions are the Same.

Yeah…i know… why it took them a decade to figure this out is beyond me.

In any event, armed with this realization they were confronted with what many of them saw as a discrepancy in their views. To quote activist Maajid Nawaz, the Political Left in Europe seemed to be abandoning what he calls the “Minority within Minorities.”

Essentially, he was talking about those coming from Islamic societies who might hold opinions and views that would ostensibly be what the Left is for - Feminism, Homosexuality, religious but pro-secular government, etc…and yet no one on the Left would ever challenge Islam’s treatment of such matters.

So - the New Atheists attempted to do as such…and frankly got their heads bitten off by the Social Justice Warrior wing of Far Left.

This has lead to some rather interesting developments.

You all remember Richard Dawkins for instance right? Well, a decade back he used to accuse you all of committing child abuse against your children for teaching religion to them… now…

He also came out in the defense of the Church of England’s right to screen the Lord’s Prayer at UK Cinemas…

theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/22/richard-dawkins-says-uk-cinemas-should-screen-the-lords-prayer

Sam harris, another name i’m sure many of you are familiar made a similar statement.

For comments such as these, Mr. Harris has been savaged by those who ostensibly share his values on venues such as Salon.com.

Furthermore, he’s been labelled a racist for his commentary on Islam.

So the Far Left/Social Justice Warriors tend to look at people like Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins, Maajid Nawaz as being Racist, Bigoted, Sexist, etc. IE: All the negative nouns that fall within their lexicon. From what I understand - they view such people as giving cover/legitimating the viewpoints of the Center to Far Right.

The Libertarian/Classical Liberal/\group tends to look at the Far Left = Noam . as being completely and totally out of touch with reality. They hold a greater critique beyond Islam that attacks the culture of Political Correctness which they accuse what they have dubbed the Regressive Left of supporting.

In fact I often see them stating that the “Regressive Left” = The New Religious Right.

One of the often cited examples I hear these people make about the “Regressive’s Insanity” is a reference to a group called Queers for Palestine.

quitpalestine.org/

The Contradiction they cannot stand here is the fact that when you look at the actual treatment of homosexuals in Palestine…well… many of them end of fleeing to Israel in order to avoid persecution by a religious majority.

Good point.

Poor Bill Maher gets shouted down every time he has any criticism of Islam.

His argument isn’t even against Islam, it’s against any religion causing violence of any sort.

Watched the clip and Ben Affleck is incredibly ignorant. :doh2:

 

[arthra]

I’d like to recommend a book entitled The Preaching of Islam by Sir Thomas Arnold.

Basically suggests that Islam spread more through preaching historically than violence as such… The book can be accessed online at

muslim-library.com/dl/books/english_The_Preaching_Of_Islam.pdf

It’s also available on Amazon and other places.

 

[Son_of_Niall]

…

“There are no Christians, as far as I know, blowing up buildings,” Dawkins said in an interview with the Times of London in April 2010 on the issue of Islamist terrorism. “I am not aware of any Christian suicide bombers. I am not aware of any major Christian denomination that believes the penalty for apostasy is death,” he added.

But the answer many would give is, that the mass shootings here in the US are committed by people who identify with Christianity.
Rhetoric is one thing, actual acts of violence is another.
If indeed Islam is such a violent religion, we should see bombings and shootings across the US. We don’t. Why? Our wonderful ‘security’ apparatus? The Boston bombing proved that if someone is intent on killing other people, no amount of surveillance will stop him.
Is it possible…just possible, that we need an ‘enemy’, a boogyman somewhere to keep our trillion dollar military industrial complex running?

 

[GEddie]

But the answer many would give is, that the mass shootings here in the US are committed by people who identify with Christianity.

In this particular country, which has arguably made an idolatry of being armed, it is ridiculously easy to commit a mass shooting.

Bombs require far more knowledge and preparation to create. You don’t bomb in a fit of rage.

ICXC NIKA

 

[TheAtheist]

But the answer many would give is, that the mass shootings here in the US are committed by people who identify with Christianity.

Ah a progressive Christian… the combiner of everything the New Atheist crowd hates.

Well i’m not a New atheist, but I’ve seen this type of argument play out in front of me on several occasions. So i’ll do this by the numbers

1.) They will accuse you of making what they term as a False Equivalence.

The line of logic goes to this effect:

 a.) If i hit my car and accidentally kill a Jewish Rabbi, is it correct for people here to say that because I self-identify as an Atheist, that Atheism is Anti-Semitic?

b.) If a Neo-Nazi hits a car and kills a Jewish Rabbi…well… Why does sound a lot more suspicious to all of you? And the local authorities for that matter.

The thing you will have to prove Niall is that there is a Direct Causal Link between the shooter’s interpretation of Christianity and the act of shooting.

Now if you’d like to present a case or case(s) where you can confidentally say “Such and such a person was Shooting for Jesus” so to speak, well i personally can’t be an evaluator - being a Foreigner and having little if any background in Christianity other than what my friends tell me.

But i’m sure your fellow Christians on this board can argue or give their assent to any example you give.

Now for those of you who would like to see a New Atheist argument in-aciton, allow me to present a rather interesting fellow by the name of “Atheism is Unstoppable.” He’s a Software/Website designer named Devon Tracey…

He’s apparently quite popular with the kids.

Now warning - he obviously has not nice things to say about you guys…

But like every major New Atheist media personality/commentator - he now reserves his ire for Islam-ism and The Regressive Left.

This video is entitled It’s Always A Good Day To Talk About Christian Terrorism
youtube.com/watch?v=iKMkZQUrizU

Where he is indirectly mocking the point made by Niall.

The point of the video it seems, is that every single time someone brings up an act of Islamic Terror, the SJW/Regressive/whatever you wish to call them feel the need to hunt out a situation where a Non-Muslim committed some act.

2.) The Secondary Move whenever I see this argument play out between the SJWs and the New Atheist/Libertarians is Proportionality.

So the SJW side might be able to dig up an example (i believe there are actually 10) that have occurred in the past decade.

The New atheist countermove is to well… do this:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents,_January%E2%80%93June_2015

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents,_July%E2%80%93December_2015

The above are Wikipedia’s running statistics about every terrorist incident committed within a particular time period. I believe i put up everything for the Year of 2015.

And so this devolves down into a numbers game. Let’s count up the number of incidents of Islamic terrorism vs. Non-Islamic terrorism.

And you can all probably guess how this ends…

If indeed Islam is such a violent religion, we should see bombings and shootings across the US. We don’t. Why? Our wonderful ‘security’ apparatus? The Boston bombing proved that if someone is intent on killing other people, no amount of surveillance will stop him.
Is it possible…just possible, that we need an ‘enemy’, a boogyman somewhere to keep our trillion dollar military industrial complex running?

And Niall here makes a move i often see made by the other side.

Which the Classical Liberal left/New Atheists swat away as an appeal to conspiracy.

And around and around this Merry go Round goes…

In any event - i think i’ve adequately demonstrated that the “Left Civil War” is a real thing.

It will be very interesting to see how this all ends…;…if it ever ends that is.

 

[TheAtheist]

Forgot one finally bit of the analysis:

So - what do the SJWs think about the Classical Liberals/New Atheists/et al.

Two accusations often come out

1.) They are the New Alt-Right
2.) They are actually Neo-Conservatives

Much like what happened with Christopher Hitchens, there is an attempt to…well… “Excommunicate” them from the Political Left.

Again… “Who is the True Liberal?” becomes a major sticking point between both groups.

However some of them are more thoughtful in their analysis - so here is an SJW talking to his fellow SJWs about the “Other side”…

This advancing libertarian movement is less concerned with Ron Paul-style economic liberty and free-markets and more with what it sees as encroachments, by the left, on the free exchange of ideas.

What they are fighting for is, on the surface, both tangible and morally-just. There is a simplicity in their message that resonates with a broad range of people and this coupled with a low-entry level to their ideas has made them the new go-to tribe for those frustrated at being shut down, hounded or shamed by lefties online. No doubt many of Roosh V’s more passive followers became radicalised that night and, in the absence of a lumber, took to Youtube in search of a worldview that did not diagnose them as the problem.

We’ve all been there.

This movement is giving expression to countless people, across the whole political spectrum, at the end of their tether with a left they feel is obsessed with identity politics.
**
That’s why it is absolutely essential that we realise we are not dealing with a band of neo-Nazi-skin heads or socially detached Tories. What we are dealing with is a new, improved version of ourselves.**

This is an intelligent and focused intellectual counter culture emboldened by the new atheist movement of the early 2000’s – referred to pejoratively (and without a hint of irony) as ‘The Dark Enlightenment’ by socialists and progressives aware of its existence. ** But where Hitchens and Harris used delusional creationists as polemical target practice on bible-belt university campuses, this ascendant multi-faceted philosophy has turned its critical eye on the all-knowing religion of social justice.**

**The aim of the game is to push back against, what it believes to be, a pernicious and pervasive progressive dogma that compartmentalises society into sub-groups based on arbitrary factors like race and gender, while super-imposing subjective, freedom-inhibiting, social theory onto every aspect of life.
**
Ironically, a mode of activism that makes meaningful class struggle more challenging as it, in its most absurd form, divides every pre-existing struggle into sub-struggles, aggressively competing with one another for cultural prominence.

The very movement the left adopted to stay relevant is now giving it a bit of an image problem but the sensitivity around some of the issues being discussed, like gender-based violence, mean people are anxious to challenge certain prevailing points of view, even if they disagree. Not only does this stifle the free exchange of ideas but also creates resentment which can quickly escalate to heated accusations.

For the full article, i refer you to the original

lokithescottishrapper.com/2016/02/25/privilege-and-prejudice-social-justice-in-an-age-of-male-confusion/

---

Finally - when I present all of the above that i’ve spoken to you Christians to the various portions of the Islamic Community, i often see two responses.

1.) The Cultural Libertarians are Fascists.

but more worryingly…

2.) Cultural Libertarians/New Atheists are a Jewish Conspiracy.

I kid you not on this.

The line of argument descends from the fact that many of these prominent New Atheists/Libertarian Leftists tend to speak approvingly of the State of Israel.

So connections start being made.

Apparently (i’m not sure as to the veracity of this) - Sam Harris for instance is Ethnically Jewish.

So is Bill Maher (although i think the are incorrect on this, wasn’t he born in a Catholic househould or something?)

So even if they are Atheists (and it is of course bad that they are Atheists!),they have “obvious” sympathies for the State of Israel.

Hence - Jewish Conspiracy.

I sometimes wonder… has all the world gone mad at this point.