The Hell dance

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Mijoy2

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I beleive that the doctrine of Hell is sidestepped, minimized, beat around the bush, not looked in the proverbial eye and in many cases outright ignored.

The doctrine of Hell is a seroius blow to my faith when truly contimplated. Maybe this is partially why it is so often not contimplated at all.

Depending on how the issue/question of Hell is approached, we typiclally find answers from two different schools of thought. I contend we cannot have it both ways.

On one hand we hear it professed that “only those who chose Hell go there”. We lead ourselves to believe that “bad” people go to Hell. Hardly a single one of us think of ourselves or of a loved one being there.

On the other hand we hear it professed that anyone not in a state of sanctified grace is strongly subject to Hell (which for me means the moment I walk out of confession, lets hope the world ends before I get to my car). We say this over and over in many different ways. But I never hear it mentioned just what percentage of the population is in fact not in a state of sanctified grace. Let’s just take Mass attendance and Masturbation alone. Now look around your work place, supermarket, any place where there are a great deal of people. How many fail to be in a state of sanctified grace by this criteria alone? Let alone all the other criteria that could be mentioned.

Possibly if I state it this way my point will be made more clear.
Think first about the gravity of Hell as we are to believe it exists. Everlasting torment, a horrendous existance for all of eternity with no possible hope of escape. Then consider the percentage of the population that is going there based on Catholic doctrine. (this is of course subject to debate but I’d content the vast majority).

Do I have my numbers right? If not please tell me where I err in this regard. Based on my study we are like a bunch of gremlins marching into a horrendous existance with few exception. And we hardly discuss it. :confused:

Where am I mistaken?
 
Satan’s greatest accomplishment is convincing people that he doesn’t exist.
 
Hell is a reality. You’re right to say its not pleasant to contemplate, but it’s reality is fundemental to understanding our faith.

That said, the Catholic Church has never, to my knowledge, specifically stated a person is in Hell (except possibly Nero?), the judgement of who and how many go there is left to God so focusing on how many of us will be there is probably not edifying.

Your post didn’t really address purgatory. This is a third place whose existence allows for people to get to Heaven even if the world doesn’t end the moment they walk out the confessional. 🙂
 
your so far off that I don’t know were to start… i would say start with the Catecism of the Catholic Church spinkle that with the new testament…

Learn the difference between Mortal Sin and Venial Sin…

Sacred Scripture and Sacret Tradition are consistent and in full communion with the existance of Hell… and yes it will be your choice to go there or not… I wouldn’t worry about all those that YOU belive will be there, you just work on keeping yourself out!

I suggest you schedule a conference with your Priest and try to get a grip on all those issues your having… this forum might not do you justice…

Peace… 👍
 
Hell is separation from God. When we die in a state of grace, we go to Heaven to live with him forever. If we die in mortal sin we live through eternity separated from God. We do not know other than this what Heaven or Hell will actually “be” like.

Probably no one considers themselves bad enough to go to eternal damnation so consider it instead from the Church’ point of view. Mortal sin is 1 serious matter 2 done on purpose (not a mistake) 3 person must know it is a mortal sin. I assume you are engaging in hyperbole in suggesting you can not get to your car after mass without commtting a mortal sin. If you do really think this you might be suffering from scruplosity. If so get yourself a regular confessor to help with this. People do choose to go to eternal damnation by chosing to live in a way contary to God’s law. We get to Heaven only by His grace (Heaven is a gift and can not be earned).
 
The tragedy of our time is the failure of our Shepherds to preach the truth. I can’t imagine how many of us our in mortal sin. Every poll I read shows that Catholics who go to mass commit grave sins on par with the pagan culture.

That means receiving holy communion while contracepting, fornicating, IVFing, watching porn, etc. The homilies are mostly on social work and are empty.

You are right to think about our eternal destination. Too many belive in some form of universal salvation. Now, I am not saying God is a traffic cop waiting to catch you in a sin, but we all tend to preseume on His mercy at times I think.

Hell is rarely mentioned today. Christ spoke of it often.
 
space ghost:
your so far off that I don’t know were to start… i would say start with the Catecism of the Catholic Church spinkle that with the new testament…

Learn the difference between Mortal Sin and Venial Sin…

Peace… 👍
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SpaceGhost,

It’s exactly the description of Mortal vs. Venial sin that prompted me to begin this thread. I am aware of the difference and of the three critera needed to make a sin mortal. However it can easily be argued that most committed sins fit these critera. I see it stated wuite often in this forum alone that the two sins I outlined in the initial post meet this critera and is, in fact, mortal. (which by the way prompts a new question. Is ignorance bliss? I know it is a sin to miss Mass yet my Catholic friends do not know this. I therefore refrain from telling them.

I much appreciate your reply. Especially the statement that says I am way off track. However, I still fail to see how I am off-track. Aside from the ignorace is bliss concept of course.
 
Ah, the “sacrament of ignorance”. Spoken today as a get into heaven free card, while committing mortal sin. Afraid not.

The three criteria always mentioned for committing a mortal sin, usually leave out #s 1740 and 1741 of the CCC. As a Catholic, we are REQUIRED to form our consciences. We are under a serious obligation to accept the revealed truth.

How many Catholics in our culture do not know contraception, for instance, is against Catholic teaching? Yet, how many use it? Do they take the time to find out why they should not? They take the time to learn all manner of secular things, yet eternal things are ignored.

We are really talking about intentional ignorance here, not invincible. We are not stranded on an island from birth with no method of communication. God has given us many avenues and talents to learn the truth, yet we ignore them so we do not have to change the way we lead our lives.

Yes, we need to talk of hell much more.
 
Seems the concensus thus far is that, in fact, Hell is a reality and many people are going.

God is sovereign and omniscient. Which means of course he knew the outcome of His divine plan. He knows the percentage of those ultimately lost. Why would He have designed a plan of which a great deal of His design suffers eternal punishment? This is soooo troubling. I know the canned answer to this. “Original sin and our free-will condemn us to Hell not God”. I contend this answer is a form of side-stepping. In its entirety, we are God’s design. The overall design is His. How do we account for this? We contend from a secular prospective at least that responsibility bubbles up.

I hope this is taken in proper context. I am not questioning God I am reaching out for understanding in this regard. I often wonder, is there more to this then meets the eye?

Such as possibly: a last chance for repentence when we are not quite passed over to the other side and not quite yet technically dead.
 
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Mijoy2:
Why would He have designed a plan of which a great deal of His design suffers eternal punishment?
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Keep in mind that it was also a design which He knew would require Him to send His Son to take on a human nature and suffer and die in order to repair the damage done by sin.
I often wonder, is there more to this then meets the eye? Such as possibly: a last chance for repentence when we are not quite passed over to the other side and not quite yet technically dead.
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We know that God wills that all be saved. So maybe this is a possibility. But how much better it is to follow God’s laws during our life, rather than count on a chance at final repentance.

JimG
 
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Mijoy2:
Seems the concensus thus far is that, in fact, Hell is a reality and many people are going.
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I hope you didn’t interpret my post to mean I think many people are going to Hell. I simply don’t know who is going there.
 
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Charles:
I hope you didn’t interpret my post to mean I think many people are going to Hell. I simply don’t know who is going there.
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Nope Charles, just a general concensus. I liked your (name removed by moderator)ut on purgatory. The concept gives me peace of mind in this disturbing topic. 🙂
 
I’m probably going to hell. I think it’ll be a good time though, cracking brews with satan and all. I think me and him will end up being homies.
 
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dredgtone:
I’m probably going to hell. I think it’ll be a good time though, cracking brews with satan and all. I think me and him will end up being homies.
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Nah, Don’t think so 😉
 
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dredgtone:
I’m probably going to hell. I think it’ll be a good time though, cracking brews with satan and all. I think me and him will end up being homies.
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Dear Dredgtone,

I am having trouble deciding when you are joking, but if you are serious about thinking you are going to Hell…I read in a previous post you said you are an atheist? You accept Hell and Satan but somehow reject God and Heaven? Surely a logical person would say if you accept the devil you must accept his opposite number?

If you joking I guess you should ignore this, but if you are not I will be interested in your answer. Dredgtone’s and anyone else who feels this same way.
 
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DeniseTOCarm:
Dear Dredgtone,

I am having trouble deciding when you are joking, but if you are serious about thinking you are going to Hell…I read in a previous post you said you are an atheist? You accept Hell and Satan but somehow reject God and Heaven? Surely a logical person would say if you accept the devil you must accept his opposite number?

If you joking I guess you should ignore this, but if you are not I will be interested in your answer. Dredgtone’s and anyone else who feels this same way.
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Yes i certainly don’t believe in Satan and Hell but on a side note there is one outlook on Hell upheld by a variety of Christians who say Hell is merely but an eternal separation from God, so in essence I will indeed get what i want by going to Hell. I think he was implying that I won’t be roasting in the fires of hell but merely chilling away from God. I think that’s a healtheir way to look at it, haha. Which is why i say I’d make the best of it and make homies with Satan. Who knows, maybe Satan isn’t such a bad fellow. As Samuel Butler (i believe) put it, “My apologies to the Devil, we’ve only heard God’s side of the story”.
 
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dredgtone:
Yes i certainly don’t believe in Satan and Hell but on a side note there is one outlook on Hell upheld by a variety of Christians who say Hell is merely but an eternal separation from God, so in essence I will indeed get what i want by going to Hell. I think he was implying that I won’t be roasting in the fires of hell but merely chilling away from God.".
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Dredgetone, Think long hard about an eternity without love.
God is Love
 
Dredgetone, Think long hard about an eternity without love.
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Or any kind of joy, for that matter. Hell is not a place of parties and reckless abandon.
 
Hell is scary. I often keep a painting depicting it on my computer desktop. Keep last things first.

Are many people going? Mary told the peasant children that souls drop into Hell like snowflakes, mostly from sins of the flesh. Consider how many obstacles, in the form of occasions of sin, modern society presents to the faithful. How many times a day do you have to avert your eyes? What percentage of today’s women literally have their cleavage, or even their underpants, showing? Women today wear less in public than they used to wear to bed. It’s probably a blizzard of souls, I might venture to guess.

Progressive theologians have indeed played with the significance of Hell, and Scripture readings for the rite of mass of Paul VI have downplayed mentions of Hell, as well as a great many other important subjects. However, the smart money is on Hell being a legitimate divine prerogative, a necessity stemming from divine goodness. (1) Seen that way, it becomes easier to accept–people reject Hell when they start to imagine that God is too good to permit anyone to be condemned for an eternity; to see that Hell flows necessarily from the goodness of God resolves this area of doubt.
 
hi, mijoy.

another thing to consider regarding hell is that there are two concepts here.

one is often referred to as hades, and often called hell. it’s a temporary place of punishment (or ‘corrective rehab’, depending on the final destination of the people in it) that will eventually be emptied and cast into the lake of fire.

the other concept is the lake of fire. this is what most people mean, i think, when they refer to hell. it’s a place of eternal torment, created to punish Satan and his followers, and into which will be cast ‘anyone whose name is not written in the Lamb’s book of life’. i pray that everyone’s name be found there. we’ll see, i suppose.

anyway, this might be part of an answer to your question. those who go to HELL (hades) might be a different group of people than those who are cast into the lake of fire. see revelation 20, esp v 14, for more details.

dredgtone - i hope and pray that your eternal destination becomes a matter of importance to you. as you can see from my post, Satan is not in charge of hell. he is being punished there. hell is a place of horrible aloneness and lack of hope. it is everything that good is not. don’t go. you won’t like it.
 
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