"The Hidden Exodus" - Do Catholic Churches Need More Bible?

[namaste8715]

Hi there,
Another poster from last month mentioned this article, which I read and found very interesting. Apologies if this is not the best forum to discuss… I’m new and learning the ropes a bit.

Here’s a link to the article:
ncronline.org/news/hidden-exodus-catholics-becoming-protestants

The article attempts to look at data regarding departures from the RCC towards either evangelical churches or mainline Protestant churches (i.e. Episcopal/Lutheran/Methodist,etc).

It seems the underlying theme of departures is directly relevant NOT to social beliefs of the RCC, but a lack of Biblical focus and a lack of an engaging worship service:

That Catholics are leaving to join evangelical churches because of the church teaching on the Bible is a disgrace. Too few homilists explain the scriptures to their people. Few Catholics read the Bible. The church needs a massive Bible education program. The church needs to acknowledge that understanding the Bible is more important than memorizing the catechism. If we could get Catholics to read the Sunday scripture readings each week before they come to Mass, it would be revolutionary. If you do not read and pray the scriptures, you are not an adult Christian. Catholics who become evangelicals understand this.

As a non-Catholic, I can agree with this sentiment, but I’d like to hear the opinions of you folks on this topic.

Would it HELP the Roman Catholic Church to increase time spent on scripture interpretation at mass?

Do you AGREE with the article’s author that the Church needs to emphasize SCRIPTURE even above the Catechism?

Thanks all!

 

[jwinch2]

I would say that I agree that the Church needs to emphasize Sacred Scripture in light of the Catechism. We must always keep in mind that as Catholic Christians, we hold Sacred Tradition to be co-equal to Sacred Scripture.

The homilies I get the most out of at Mass are the ones where the Priest or Deacon explains the scripture readings, their historical significance, any pertinent linguistic nuance, their relationship to the teaching of the Magesterium, and how we can use that in our lives as Christians.

I will say that I do agree that far too many Catholics are ignorant of Sacred Scripture and I would also agree that the Church needs to emphasize learning the Bible much more than has been the case in the past. Personally, I do not see how one can teach or learn the Catechism properly without learning a great deal about Sacred Scripture in the process. There must be thousands of references to the Bible in the Catechism. Having said that, it is obvious that is exactly what has been going on.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

Do you AGREE with the article’s author that the Church needs to emphasize SCRIPTURE even above the Catechism?

I am just curious if you’ve read the Catechism because it’s thoroughly Biblical? I read my Catechism and I’m yet to do so without following its references in the Bible.

From the article:

That Catholics are leaving to join evangelical churches because of the church teaching on the Bible is a disgrace.

Not sure what the author is trying to convey here? Is he saying what the Church teaches about the Holy Scriptures is a disgrace or is he saying teachings based of the Holy Scriptures are disgraceful?

Few Catholics read the Bible.

This is sadly true for a large amount of Catholics but I am frankly a little sick and tired of people’s lack of responsibility ( I think my job is starting to finally take its toll on me). At what point are individual people responsible for their lack of Scripture reading? I’m tired of the excuses, tired of everything being someone else’s fault. Time to take some responsibility for our actions or lack of actions.

If we could get Catholics to read the Sunday scripture readings each week before they come to Mass, it would be revolutionary.

No, if we could just get the majority Catholics to Mass where they could hear the Scriptural readings. That would be revolutionary.

If you do not read and pray the scriptures, you are not an adult Christian. Catholics who become evangelicals understand this.

I don’t like the wording of this sentence. Those who can’t read can’t be an “adult Christian”? Those who don’t (or didn’t in the past) have access to a Bible can’t be an “adult Christian”?

Do a lot of Catholics need to pick up their Bibles more often? Yes, who would it hurt for anyone to do this?

God bless

 

[JackVk]

Jeff Cavins’ “The Great Adventure” Bible study is great! I just finished it this semester, and I have learned so much about the Bible. He also has books such as Walking with God and I’m Not Being Fed!. These talk about how many Catholics don’t feel fulfilled by Catholicism, and why they are wrong in these feelings.

 

[namaste8715]

Quote:
That Catholics are leaving to join evangelical churches because of the church teaching on the Bible is a disgrace.

Not sure what the author is trying to convey here? Is he saying what the Church teaches about the Holy Scriptures is a disgrace or is he saying teachings based of the Holy Scriptures are disgraceful?

I think the author worded this badly - I think, based on the rest of the contest of the article, that the author is meaning the lack of teaching about/directly from Scripture is a disgrace.

Quote:
Few Catholics read the Bible.

This is sadly true for a large amount of Catholics but I am frankly a little sick and tired of people’s lack of responsibility ( I think my job is starting to finally take its toll on me). At what point are individual people responsible for their lack of Scripture reading? I’m tired of the excuses, tired of everything being someone else’s fault. Time to take some responsibility for our actions or lack of actions.

I agree with you here, wholeheartedly! In my opinion, it is the responsibility of the individual (as well as a standard to be set by parents) to read Scripture. I also agree, however, with jwich2, above that the RCC (as well as mainline non-Catholic churches) should emphasis Scripture both at mass and at home.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

The principal reasons given by people who leave the church to become Protestant are that their “spiritual needs were not being met” in the Catholic church (71 percent) **and they “found a religion they like more” (70 percent). **

This is a problem. Joining a Church, any Church, should be because of truth. There were a number of things I didn’t “like” about the Catholic Church when I converted but I followed what I had determined through prayer and study to be truth. Out of obedience to the Lord I joined what I considered to be His Church. Because I saw it as his Church I admitted that the things I didn’t “like” I was wrong about. I would be spiritually bankrupt today if I followed then what I liked instead of truth when I was searching for a home.

God bless

 

[ESMDHokie77]

Are you kidding me? I’ve attended a couple of different denom. services, and none of their readings compares to the first half of the Mass, the Liturgy of the Word.

The Mass is centered on the Eucharist, because Jesus told us to do so.

 

[Saintlucy]

The Holy Mass is bible-centered from the first word to the last. Try reading Scott Hahn’s The Lamb’s Supper. He has now written a study guide to go with this book. From his very first Mass he realised that the Catholic Church was THE bible based Church.

 

[Calgar]

The Christians who have joined our congregation (after leaving a catholic church) have all expressed sentiment consistant with the desire for more in depth study of God’s Word.

While I believe there are many Christians in the Catholic Church I also believe that it’s religion for the lowest common denominator. “Do this, say this and you’re good”. Basically, just want to be told the minimum requirements and get back to doing whatever you want. But that’s an outsider looking in.

Every Christian needs to grow. You have to get off the baby food at some point.

 

[Dave_Noonan]

Hi there,
Another poster from last month mentioned this article, which I read and found very interesting. Apologies if this is not the best forum to discuss… I’m new and learning the ropes a bit.

Here’s a link to the article:
ncronline.org/news/hidden-exodus-catholics-becoming-protestants

The article attempts to look at data regarding departures from the RCC towards either evangelical churches or mainline Protestant churches (i.e. Episcopal/Lutheran/Methodist,etc).

It seems the underlying theme of departures is directly relevant NOT to social beliefs of the RCC, but a lack of Biblical focus and a lack of an engaging worship service:

As a non-Catholic, I can agree with this sentiment, but I’d like to hear the opinions of you folks on this topic.

Would it HELP the Roman Catholic Church to increase time spent on scripture interpretation at mass?

Do you AGREE with the article’s author that the Church needs to emphasize SCRIPTURE even above the Catechism?

Thanks all!

Lack of instruction about scripture in Catholic seminaries is pretty appalling, so don’t blame the priest.

 

[ESMDHokie77]

The Christians who have joined our congregation (after leaving a catholic church) have all expressed sentiment consistant with the desire for more in depth study of God’s Word.

While I believe there are many Christians in the Catholic Church I also believe that it’s religion for the lowest common denominator. “Do this, say this and you’re good”. Basically, just want to be told the minimum requirements and get back to doing whatever you want. But that’s an outsider looking in.

Every Christian needs to grow. You have to get off the baby food at some point.

I know of a few protestant congregations that elevate their bible study (“sunday school”) to the same level as their regular worship service. It boggles me. If you’re a catholic and you want to study the bible, join the local bible study at your parish. Scott Hahn does some incredible Bible Study, and … yep, he’s a Catholic.

All religions can have those who just get by on the bare minimum. Catholicism is the complete Truth and the fullness of Christianity. And this is from an insider proclaiming the good news.

It’s asinine to think that you can’t have mature adult spiritual growth in the Catholic Church.

 

[Saintlucy]

The Christians who have joined our congregation (after leaving a catholic church) have all expressed sentiment consistant with the desire for more in depth study of God’s Word.

While I believe there are many Christians in the Catholic Church I also believe that it’s religion for the lowest common denominator. “Do this, say this and you’re good”. Basically, just want to be told the minimum requirements and get back to doing whatever you want. But that’s an outsider looking in.

Every Christian needs to grow. You have to get off the baby food at some point.

I find your post insulting. Many Christians in the Catholic Church? Christ founded the Catholic Church. If Catholics want to study the bible then they should get themselves a copy of the Cathechism of the Catholic Church and study scripture under guidance from the Majesterium which has never wavered in faith and morals since the time of the Apostles.

 

[The_Old_Medic]

As a person who grew up in an evangelical church, one that is ALL Bible oriented, I can say that the Roman Catholic Church does in fact emphasize the Bible a LOT more than most non-Catholics want to acknowledge.

Keep in mind that people often leave churches for a wide variety of reasons. Attempting to pin it down to one issue is rarely fair at all. And, those drawn to the more evangelical churches are often more interested in the “show” than anything else. They will say whatever they are taught to say.

I was raised to believe that The Pope was quite literally the Devil Incarnate on Earth. That Nuns wore the old style habits to hide their horns and tails, because they were all sworn “Brides of the Devil”. That every Nun was required to have a baby by a priest, and that those babies were sacrificed at “Black masses” worshiping the Devil.

We were taught this drivel in Sunday School. My beloved grandfather was a Minister in that Sect for 55 years, as were his brother-in-law, his father-in-law, all of his wife’s uncles, etc. The entire family was, and still is, Free Methodist.

We kids spent each summer with our grandparents, and we had it drilled into us that all Catholic were evil. We went to church on Sunday and Wednesday evening, and Papa preached at least 2-3 week long “Camp Meetings” every summer, and we went to those all day, every day they lasted.

We had people that cam to our church, and to those Camp Meetings that claimed to be "former Priests and “former Nuns”, who would tell everyone lurid tales of the depravity of the Catholic Church. I now realize that they were all a bunch of liars!

But, you can imagine how I felt at the age of 9, when in the middle of the school year (January 2, 1953 to be exact) I was suddenly informed that I was going to be placed in a Catholic Boarding School that very day. I was horrified, I truly believed that she was turning me over to the devil. I was quite literally shaking with fear, as she hugged me goodby and left me in their “care”.

Inside of a month, I knew that everything I had been taught about Catholics was a total and complete lie.

Instead of emphasizing how you would be punished if you sinned, they emphasized how much Jesus loved you and wanted you to be in heaven with him. How he gave us the opportunity to seek forgiveness for our sins. How he loved us, that God the Father loved us, and the Holy Ghost also loved us. That we need not “fear God”, but that we should love him. (Which by the way is what the old English word “fear”, as used in the King James Bible actually means.)

Their example of living a true Christian life is what converted me. Not their words, but they way they lived and they way they treated us children. They showed their love of their fellow humans every day, every hour and every minute. They also taught s about Scripture and what it meant a LOT better than the protestant church I had grown up in did.

You see, they actually taught you to think about what the Bible was saying, not to just memorize it.

Any Catholic that wants to learn about scripture can learn all they could possibly want to know through the Catholic Church. Contrary to what many Protestants claim, the Church does not discourage people from reading the Bible (I personally own 7 different editions of it). Every Catholic Book Store in this country carries at least two or three editions of the Bible, and they sell a LOT of them.

My 4th grade teacher was a brand new Nun, having taken her solemn vows the summer before and was teaching her first year. It was her example, more than anything else, that converted me. You see, she was the first person I had ever seen that was connected to religion that actually seemed to be happy because of it. I owe my faith to Sr. Renilda Cade, O.P. (of the Dominican Sisters of Mission San Jose, and may God bless her soul eternally.)

Better come up with another reason why people leave. And, keep in mind that the Catholic Church is GROWING, not shrinking as most Protestant sects are doing.

 

[simspt]

Hi there,
Another poster from last month mentioned this article, which I read and found very interesting. Apologies if this is not the best forum to discuss… I’m new and learning the ropes a bit.

Here’s a link to the article:
ncronline.org/news/hidden-exodus-catholics-becoming-protestants

The article attempts to look at data regarding departures from the RCC towards either evangelical churches or mainline Protestant churches (i.e. Episcopal/Lutheran/Methodist,etc).

It seems the underlying theme of departures is directly relevant NOT to social beliefs of the RCC, but a lack of Biblical focus and a lack of an engaging worship service:

As a non-Catholic, I can agree with this sentiment, but I’d like to hear the opinions of you folks on this topic.

Would it HELP the Roman Catholic Church to increase time spent on scripture interpretation at mass?

Do you AGREE with the article’s author that the Church needs to emphasize SCRIPTURE even above the Catechism?

Thanks all!

As a new Catholic (Evangelical for 18 years prior) who entered the Church this past Easter Vigil, I couldn’t disagree more. The Catholic Mass including the liturgy of the Word (very biblical) and Eucharist I find much more engaging so to speak than a typical Protestant service, the history behind the mass is also remarkalbe and every part of it has Biblical roots both from the OT and NT.
Organized Bible studies are available for those interested. Lack of understanding of the Catholic Church’s Liturgy in relation to Scipture to outsiders is common.

In Christ,
JMS

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

While I believe there are many Christians in the Catholic Church I also believe that it’s religion for the lowest common denominator. “Do this, say this and you’re good”. Basically, just want to be told the minimum requirements and get back to doing whatever you want. But that’s an outsider looking in.

No sooner will you complain that Catholics look for the “least common denominator” and the “minimum requirements” another will complain that Catholics look to do too much and “add to the Gospel”

I find the complaints against Catholicism contradictory and sometimes confusing.

God bless

 

[ESMDHokie77]

The Holy Mass is bible-centered from the first word to the last. Try reading Scott Hahn’s The Lamb’s Supper. He has now written a study guide to go with this book. From his very first Mass he realised that the Catholic Church was THE bible based Church.

Yep! I definitely suggest to everyone to read this book authored by Dr. Hahn. I mentioned Dr. Hahn and his Biblical Theology Institute in a post that got deleted here.

 

[JamestheOlder]

Lack of instruction about scripture in Catholic seminaries is pretty appalling, so don’t blame the priest.

Stats, please. Don’t make statements which you cannot back up. Scripture, and the Liturgy that includes much of it, is a serious area of study in EVERY Catholic seminary.

Also, the deacon/priest/bishop who gives the homily is INSTRUCTED to base it on the readings for that Sunday or, for that matter, Mass EVERY DAY. That some priests, etc., do not do this is similar to the MANY non-Catholic sermons I have heard where ONE VERSE is referenced. At least we get multiple readings, plus the Psalms.

Bible study is available in every Catholic parish. Does everyone go? No. But then you have those “protestant” churches with “perfect” attendence. Baloney.

 

[JohnnyReb]

The Holy Mass is bible-centered from the first word to the last. Try reading Scott Hahn’s The Lamb’s Supper. He has now written a study guide to go with this book. From his very first Mass he realised that the Catholic Church was THE bible based Church.

The Mass is deep in scripture, as is our Anglican liturgies. The question is how to get that word to connect with the lives of the people. That is what I find that my Anglican priest is able to do better than the Catholic churchs I attended. Its not that the Catholic church does not teach from the Bible, they do. The Homilies left alot to be desired in each Catholic church I attended.

 

[simspt]

The Mass is deep in scripture, as is our Anglican liturgies. The question is how to get that word to connect with the lives of the people. That is what I find that my Anglican priest is able to do better than the Catholic churchs I attended. Its not that the Catholic church does not teach from the Bible, they do. The Homilies left alot to be desired in each Catholic church I attended.

I agree that some homilies r too short. I once heard an interesting comment made by a Catholic Priest and eminent scholar that thought that both Protestants and Catholics after the reformation came out somewhat short-handed because of their suspiciousness of each other with Catholics emphasizing the Liturgy of the Eucharist and Protestants the Liturgy of the Word. This persisted down through the centuries to our present day. I dont know how accurate that is but I found it interesting.

In Christ,
JMS

 

[waxwing]

My experience within Evangelicalism is that there is no comparison between the quantity of scripture read between the Evangelicals and the RCC.
The Bible is read substantially more at Mass vs a typical Evangelical Service, the difference is after reading all this Scripture their is a 5 - 10 minute homily recaping what was just read, Where as at a Evangelical Service there will be a a few Scriptures read and then 30 - 40 minutes expanding on the Scripture with the usual personal stories, some humour, some application tips etc etc.

But on a related note, our parish did have to cancel the Bible Study groups due to lack of response. So perhaps although RC are exposed to plenty of scripture their isn’t the hunger to meet with fellow parishoners to discuss the word, where as Protestants don’t really read that much Scripture at their service, instead maybe it is read and discussed at small groups or some other Bible Study meeting, just a theory