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Della
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I recently bought this book about St. Therese of the Child Jesus and the Holy Face first published in 1959, and am reading it. So far I’m liking it very much. Has anyone else read it? What did you think of it?
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tjmiller
Guest
Father Hans Urs von Balthasar - the greatest Catholic theologian of the century after beloved Benedict 16 - criticized this book quite heavily. Too Freudian.
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Micki
Guest
I read it and thought it was an interesting study of Therese. I did feel depressed when I got to the end.
Micki
Micki
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Della
Guest
Is there a book or article by him that I could read? You see, I’m the formation director of my Lay Carmelite Community. We’re going through The Story of a Soul and I’m reading Ms. Gorres’ book and reporting on it for the community, so any critiques, good or bad, would be most helpful.
Edit: It’s published by Ignatius. They’re usually reliable. Can you remember what, besides the Freudian aspects, that Father Hans Urs von Balthasar didn’t like about it, if anything? Thanks!
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Della
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Why depressed? Can you elaborate? Thanks! :tiphat:
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tjmiller
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Della, it’s been awhile, but I recall some of Von Balthasar’s criticisms of Gorres in Two Sisters in the Spirit -also from Ignatius! I will try to look some of it up - but based on what I remember reading, I would not trust Gorres, IMHO.
Father von B. highly praised the scholarly biographic quality of Gorres’ work, while also strenuosly disagreeing with its Germanistic psychologism.
Father von B. highly praised the scholarly biographic quality of Gorres’ work, while also strenuosly disagreeing with its Germanistic psychologism.
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tjmiller
Guest
Della: a second thought - why not use Fr. Conrad de Meester’s study of Therese, “With Empty Hands” - available from ICS Publications at a 40% discount - for your class? It is reliable.
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tjmiller
Guest
Two Sisters in the Spirit, Fr. Hans Urs Von Balthasar, Ignatius Press, 1992:
page 35: in his characteristic gift for mannerly understatement, Von Balthasar condemns Gorres’ work as " obvious misinterpretation" and “inadequate on the theological side”.
I should not have said that Gorres is “too Freudian”, but rather “too Nietzschean”…
But how bad can one get?
page 35: in his characteristic gift for mannerly understatement, Von Balthasar condemns Gorres’ work as " obvious misinterpretation" and “inadequate on the theological side”.
I should not have said that Gorres is “too Freudian”, but rather “too Nietzschean”…
But how bad can one get?
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DBT
Guest
I’m reading this right now . . . this is a great recomendation
This is probably the best book I’ve read on Therese . . . along with “John and Therese: Living Flames of Love.”I think it would be great in a formation class.
Dave.
PS. You mentioned you’re reviewing “Story of a Soul” in your class. One of the great things about “Empty Hands” is that Fr. de Meester does a very good job describing St. Therese’s spiritual growth and, equally important, he makes many direct references to specific page numbers in “Story of a Soul” to illustrate his points. It makes it very easy to go back and forth between primary and secondary sources.
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Della
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Thanks, everyone! I think I’ll finish Gorres’ book, more for myself, and get this one you’ve recommended, for the community. It will be easier for me to separate the wheat from the chaff in Gorres’ book than it would be for many of our members who aren’t as educated as I have been privileged to be. Thanks again!
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Micki
Guest
Maybe because the side I saw of Therese was one of social “misfit” rather than the saint I had previously read about. The author spoke about Therese’s oddities, including her distaste for her body. I guess that’s all of that Freudian stuff.
Micki
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Pauli
Guest
I read this way back in about 1965 but it’s still in my bookcase so I can refresh my memory. I read it with interest but filled the margins with comments, which are still there, reminding me as I picked it up. There is a lot of information about her life and surroundings, so it is interesting factually, but Guerin seems completely blind to Therese’s spiritual life, misunderstands her motives. Guerin scorns such things as “offering up” getting splashed while washing clothes, , or getting the ugly jar instead of the pretty one, etc., as too petty to bother about. She tries to explain Therese’s virtues as if they are consciously doggedly practiced, instead of being in a constant state of love for God. Unlike some saints, Therese doesn’t talk much about how sinful she is; her humility is simply that she knows she is God’s child and can only do small things. Much modern thought passes her by because of this. Here’s a good question: does God value a beautiful perfect lion more than he does a little tiny fly? Therese would say, it takes as much creative knowhow to make a gnat as it does to create the universe. Both are made out of nothing. In imagery she called herself a grain of sand, not to brag about how humble she is, but to know that, to God, whether the creature is big or small, it is loved beyond its wildest dreams. She offered up tiny sacrifices because they are in such good supply that it can be done every day, even every hour, (instead of one big heroic act once in a lifetime?). Guerin does see, that when Therese was so sick at the end, the sacrifice was very big, but she seems amazed that she could keep up her “piety” even on her deathbed, that it was really from the heart, and kept growing.
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tjmiller
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The farther I am now reading in Fr. Hans Urs Von Balthasar’s Two Sisters in the Spirit: Therese of Lisieux and Elizabeth of the Trinity (Ignatius Press, 1992; “Therese” section originally published in 1950), the more I get the impression that he is striving to correct grave misinterpretations of the Saint by Gorres and her worldly-minded, psychologistically speculative, reductionistic ilk (van der Meersch, Bernoville, Gheon, d’Alencon).
Hardly a chapter passes in which he doesn’t present an example of Gorres’ skewed caricature of Therese on the one hand, and a corrective, theologically balanced counterpoint to it on the other.
Hardly a chapter passes in which he doesn’t present an example of Gorres’ skewed caricature of Therese on the one hand, and a corrective, theologically balanced counterpoint to it on the other.
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Della
Guest
Pauli wrote:
tjmiller wrote:
I’ve noticed this too–the dismissiveness and the lack of understanding of Therese’s motivation. I can see in this book the rumblings of the “spirit of Vatican II” that sees all such spirituality as “Victorian rubbish” “covered in lace,” etc. As if the raw daily reality of having to deal with other human beings was an unknown concept to Therese, who stated quite clearly that she had no illusions about the religious life and wasn’t disappointed to find she was right when she entered the Carmel at Lisieux. In Gorre’s poo-pooing of Therese’s control of herself she misses the point entirely, doesn’t she? Thanks for your comments, I truly appreciate them!
tjmiller wrote:
I have that book and started to read it a couple of years ago, but only got so far. I think I wasn’t ready for it then, but your recommendation of it reminded me I have it, so I just got it off the shelf and will give it another try. I’m not in any danger of accepting Gorre’s analysis whole and unquestioning, but it will be useful to see how Fr. Hans Urs Von Balthasar refutes her viewpoint. So, thanks for the recommendation! :tiphat:
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