The High, Broad, and Low Church

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You know, when you look at our church…you could explain it like this

-The Catholics who are fiercely loyal to Pope Benedict XVI, have a great love for the TLM, and for orthodoxy and preserving the church traditions as the High Church
-The Catholics, who are contemporary Catholics. Attend mass, when they can, and are not very religious otherwise, as the Broad Church
-The Catholics who want flitting around in the sanctuary, prancing down the aisle, nuns-in-alb, hopping and jumping, and progressive liturgies, as the Low Church

Though, it’s also problematic, because it makes the church out to be 3 different churches, which would be heretical.

This is not how I am explaining the church, it’s just something I though of today. What does anybody else think?
 
LoyalViews said:
You know, when you look at our church…you could explain it like this

-The Catholics who are fiercely loyal to Pope Benedict XVI, have a great love for the TLM, and for orthodoxy and preserving the church traditions as the High Church
-The Catholics, who are contemporary Catholics. Attend mass, when they can, and are not very religious otherwise, as the Broad Church
-The Catholics who want flitting around in the sanctuary, prancing down the aisle, nuns-in-alb, hopping and jumping, and progressive liturgies, as the Low Church

Though, it’s also problematic, because it makes the church out to be 3 different churches, which would be heretical.

This is not how I am explaining the church, it’s just something I though of today. What does anybody else think?
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What about us faithful practicing Catholics (numbering in the millions) who are loyal to the Pope and the Magesterium, attend Mass every Sunday and Holy Day and often daily, are quite orthodox in their beliefs and who do NOT attend or prefer the EF? Are we chopped liver? And what about our faithful Eastern Catholic brothers and sisters? And you must remember that the Catholic Church encompasses the whole world, not just America.

Yes, your artificial division is problematic, and highly colored by your own viewpoint, not reality.
 
LoyalViews said:
You know, when you look at our church…you could explain it like this

-The Catholics who are fiercely loyal to Pope Benedict XVI, have a great love for the TLM, and for orthodoxy and preserving the church traditions as the High Church
-The Catholics, who are contemporary Catholics. Attend mass, when they can, and are not very religious otherwise, as the Broad Church
-The Catholics who want flitting around in the sanctuary, prancing down the aisle, nuns-in-alb, hopping and jumping, and progressive liturgies, as the Low Church

Though, it’s also problematic, because it makes the church out to be 3 different churches, which would be heretical.

This is not how I am explaining the church, it’s just something I though of today. What does anybody else think?
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I also concur that your divisions here are not only misleading and even pejorative, but you are co-opting a term normally used in general means to describe non-Catholic worship services, specifically of the Anglican Communion. To them, “High Church” defines a strong liturgical service similar to the Mass. A “Low Church” service is more evangelical in form. Both are still Anglican services, however.

There is nothing inappropriate or necessarily advantageous from a matter of validity in attending the Extraordinary or Ordinary Form of the Mass. As long as one attends as obligated, that is all that’s required.

There are certainly Catholics with cafeteria attitudes about matters of faith and morality that attend the EF. Attending one Mass or another does not make one more “holier” than the other.
 
LoyalViews said:
You know, when you look at our church…you could explain it like this

-The Catholics who are fiercely loyal to Pope Benedict XVI, have a great love for the TLM, and for orthodoxy and preserving the church traditions as the High Church
-The Catholics, who are contemporary Catholics. Attend mass, when they can, and are not very religious otherwise, as the Broad Church
-The Catholics who want flitting around in the sanctuary, prancing down the aisle, nuns-in-alb, hopping and jumping, and progressive liturgies, as the Low Church

Though, it’s also problematic, because it makes the church out to be 3 different churches, which would be heretical.

This is not how I am explaining the church, it’s just something I though of today. What does anybody else think?
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The worst thing to do in the church is to start trying to divide it in this way. My first thought is that the Last shall be first.
Having love for the TLM and orthodoxy and preserving the church traditions doesn’t make anyone a better Catholic. You are exhaulting yourself above others, the Pharasis beating his chest in the from of the church, saying here Lord I am look how great I am.
the High Church are those who are carring out the mission of the Church, to care far those in need, spread the gospel, humble themselves, recongonize themselves as sinners, attend mass and partake in the sacraments regularly. Those who serve and wash the feet.
These are also the people who follow faithfully the teachings of the Magisterium, defend the church and are loyal to our Pope.

Peace,
FAB
 
from Fr Z’s blog:
**Fr. Z’s 5 Rules of Engagement for after the Motu Proprio is released:
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**
  1. Rejoice because our liturgical life has been enriched, not because “we win”. Everyone wins when the Church’s life is enriched. This is not a “zero sum game”.
  2. Do not strut. Let us be gracious to those who have in the past not been gracious in regard to our “legitimate aspirations”.
  3. Show genuine Christian joy. If you want to attract people to what gives you so much consolation and happiness, be inviting and be joyful. Avoid the sourness some of the more traditional stamp have sadly worn for so long.
  4. Be engaged in the whole life of your parishes, especially in works of mercy organized by the same. If you want the whole Church to benefit from the use of the older liturgy, then you who are shaped by the older form of Mass should be of benefit to the whole Church in concrete terms.
  5. If the document doesn’t say everything we might hope for, don’t ***** about it like a whiner. Speak less of our rights and what we deserve, or what it ought to have been, as if we were our own little popes, and more about our gratitude, gratitude, gratitude for what God gives us.
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CB_Catholic said:
What about us faithful practicing Catholics (numbering in the millions) who are loyal to the Pope and the Magesterium, attend Mass every Sunday and Holy Day and often daily, are quite orthodox in their beliefs and who do NOT attend or prefer the EF? Are we chopped liver? And what about our faithful Eastern Catholic brothers and sisters? And you must remember that the Catholic Church encompasses the whole world, not just America.

Yes, your artificial division is problematic, and highly colored by your own viewpoint, not reality.
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Amen.
 
LoyalViews said:
You know, when you look at our church…you could explain it like this

-The Catholics who are fiercely loyal to Pope Benedict XVI, have a great love for the TLM, and for orthodoxy and preserving the church traditions as the High Church
-The Catholics, who are contemporary Catholics. Attend mass, when they can, and are not very religious otherwise, as the Broad Church
-The Catholics who want flitting around in the sanctuary, prancing down the aisle, nuns-in-alb, hopping and jumping, and progressive liturgies, as the Low Church

***Though, it’s also problematic, because it makes the church out to be 3 different churches, which would be heretical.

This is not how I am explaining the church, it’s just something I though of today. What does anybody else think***?
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I said it was problematic, what I thought, because it makes the church out to be 3 different churches, which is completely heretical. I wasn’t saying the church was this way. It was just something I thought of. I just wanted to see what anybody else thought. I, personally, do not see the church in this way.
As CB Catholic said:
What about us faithful practicing Catholics (numbering in the millions) who are loyal to the Pope and the Magesterium, attend Mass every Sunday and Holy Day and often daily, are quite orthodox in their beliefs and who do NOT attend or prefer the EF? Are we chopped liver? And what about our faithful Eastern Catholic brothers and sisters? And you must remember that the Catholic Church encompasses the whole world, not just America.
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Yes, your artificial division is problematic, and highly colored by your own viewpoint, not reality.
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You are not chopped liver, your are High Church. But, High Church, Broad Church, Low Church is not my viewpoint. It was just something I thought of. I wanted opinions. I don’t agree with what I thought either!

I am sorry for the misunderstanding:blush:
 
It sounds very “Anglican”. And I’m not buying that one.
 
LoyalViews said:
I said it was problematic, what I thought, because it makes the church out to be 3 different churches, which is completely heretical. I wasn’t saying the church was this way. It was just something I thought of. I just wanted to see what anybody else thought. I, personally, do not see the church in this way.

You are not chopped liver, your are High Church. But, High Church, Broad Church, Low Church is not my viewpoint. It was just something I thought of. I wanted opinions. I don’t agree with what I thought either!

I am sorry for the misunderstanding:blush:
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Your very definition of High Church excludes the OF, I think that’s what was being objected to. Perhaps you could refine your definitions a bit and then perhaps more could agree to it.

It might also help if you state your beliefs about this subject rather than leaving us with “I don’t believe this either.”

ChadS
 
Yes, it is very Anglican. Thats why it’s problematic. It makes the Church out to be 3 different churches, which is heretical.
I didn’t mean to exclude the OF…sorry about that. I am not objecting the OF at all! The OF would be considered High Church!

I am sorry I started this mess. I only wanted to hear what other people thought…
I do not agree with what I thought, because it’s just plain incorrect. Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa, Mea Maxima Culpa!
 
LoyalViews said:
You know, when you look at our church…you could explain it like this

-The Catholics who are fiercely loyal to Pope Benedict XVI, have a great love for the TLM, and for orthodoxy and preserving the church traditions as the High Church
-The Catholics, who are contemporary Catholics. Attend mass, when they can, and are not very religious otherwise, as the Broad Church
-The Catholics who want flitting around in the sanctuary, prancing down the aisle, nuns-in-alb, hopping and jumping, and progressive liturgies, as the Low Church

Though, it’s also problematic, because it makes the church out to be 3 different churches, which would be heretical.

This is not how I am explaining the church, it’s just something I though of today. What does anybody else think?
Click to expand...
Malleus: How about the Church Triumphant Being the High Church - the Church Sufffering being the Low Church and those Catholics in the Church Militant living today who believe in EVERY TRUE POPE From St Peter on down all the Councils all the Doctors all the Saints all the Dogmas - True Scripture and partake of the Sacraments as often as possible and keep their souls in a state of Sanctifying Grace being the Broad Church.

And no , I didnt think that up today.

Pax
 
Malleus_01 said:
Malleus: How about the Church Triumphant Being the High Church - the Church Sufffering being the Low Church and those Catholics in the Church Militant living today who believe in EVERY TRUE POPE From St Peter on down all the Councils all the Doctors all the Saints all the Dogmas - True Scripture and partake of the Sacraments as often as possible and keep their souls in a state of Sanctifying Grace being the Broad Church.

And no , I didnt think that up today.

Pax
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Excellent!
 
LoyalViews said:
You know, when you look at our church…you could explain it like this

-The Catholics who are fiercely loyal to Pope Benedict XVI, have a great love for the TLM, and for orthodoxy and preserving the church traditions as the High Church
-The Catholics, who are contemporary Catholics. Attend mass, when they can, and are not very religious otherwise, as the Broad Church
-The Catholics who want flitting around in the sanctuary, prancing down the aisle, nuns-in-alb, hopping and jumping, and progressive liturgies, as the Low Church

Though, it’s also problematic, because it makes the church out to be 3 different churches, which would be heretical.

This is not how I am explaining the church, it’s just something I though of today. What does anybody else think?
Click to expand...
none of these descriptions fit me or most Catholics I know, or most Catholics I work with, or most Catholics in parishes I have belonged to in the last 30 years, and I would be highly offended and probably say something I would later regret if you were to insist that I must fit in one of these inane categories
 
LoyalViews said:
You know, when you look at our church…you could explain it like this

-The Catholics who are fiercely loyal to Pope Benedict XVI, have a great love for the TLM, and for orthodoxy and preserving the church traditions as the High Church
-The Catholics, who are contemporary Catholics. Attend mass, when they can, and are not very religious otherwise, as the Broad Church
-The Catholics who want flitting around in the sanctuary, prancing down the aisle, nuns-in-alb, hopping and jumping, and progressive liturgies, as the Low Church

Though, it’s also problematic, because it makes the church out to be 3 different churches, which would be heretical.

This is not how I am explaining the church, it’s just something I though of today. What does anybody else think?
Click to expand...
Might as well just be the Anglicans and call yourself Anglo-Catholic.
 
Given his expressed contrition, perhaps the OP wishes to ask a moderator to lock this forum?
 
Chatter163 said:
Given his expressed contrition, perhaps the OP wishes to ask a moderator to lock this forum?
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Yes!
People are starting to take what I said the wrong way…I said it was problematic what I thought, I just wanted to see what other people thought, they gave me their opinions. The End!

🙂
 
puzzleannie said:
none of these descriptions fit me or most Catholics I know, or most Catholics I work with, or most Catholics in parishes I have belonged to in the last 30 years, and I would be highly offended and probably say something I would later regret if you were to insist that I must fit in one of these inane categories
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And I agree with you!
 
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