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billcu1
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I guess the church has really been promoting “The Hobbit” from the Lord of the Rings series. The guy who wrote it is I guess catholic and based it on catholicism or something.
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TheRealJuliane
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Yes, J.R.R. Tolkien was a Catholic. He did not consciously set out to write The Hobbit or The Lord of the Rings to be a Catholic story, but he has said that his Catholicism certainly affected his writing.
Where are you seeing any promotion from the Church for “The Hobbit?”
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Actaeon
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This is true. However, while he did not set out to write them to be Catholic stories, they quickly took on faith elements for him, and he did say that as he went on he consciously injected Catholic metaphors, particularly in the revision phases.
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Razanir
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PaulfromIowa
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It has?
I have not seen the Church actively promoting The Hobbit. I imagine it’s happening in some places.
I have no idea about the movie but I don’t remember The Hobbit being nearly as reflective of Tolkien’s Catholicism as was The Lord of the Rings. And both stories are also heavily influenced by British folklore. Tolkien’s Catholic influence is subtle, (with the exception of the creation story in the *Silmarillion.) * his Middle Earth stories are not like some of C.S. Lewis’ fictional stories which have rather blatant Christian influences.
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thomasf
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Never could get into Tolkein’s works at all. Not much of a fantasy fan.
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TheRealJuliane
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Well, The Hobbit was a children’s book, that Tolkien never meant to be a wild commercial success. It was more of a simple quest tale, but introduced some of the characters which would later populate the LOTR.
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SammyJankis90
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I noticed something else the last time I read the books (my first time reading them as a Catholic): I remembered being really annoyed by the part in the Return of the King film when the Witch-King says “No man can kill me,” to which Eowyn responds by taking off her helm, declaring “I am no man!” and slaying the Nazgul. When I saw it in the movies I thought it was a kind of cheesy line, so I was really surprised to find a very similar line in the book itself. It later struck me that this is a sort of image of Mary crushing the serpent’s head or, in this case, slaying the Witch-King of Angmar.
I noticed a couple other Marian elements in that same read-through: in Mordor, Sam says something along the lines of “If I could only ask that Lady Galadriel for one thing, it’d be some fresh water.” The very next page - water. Likewise, the light of Elendil, which Galadriel gives to Frodo and which he uses to fight off Shelob, could be seen as akin to the protection and intercession of our own Immaculate Mother.
I really love these books.
Yes. I believe the Middle Earth stories grew out of stories that Tolkien used to tell his own children. The Hobbit was just an isolated story that happened to take place in Middle Earth. Tolkien had not yet developed the themes of destiny that you see later in the Lord of the Rings.
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billcu1
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On EWTN and the diocese here where I am puts out a paper to catholic households in the diocese containing movie reviews. Some movies are said to be morally offensive and so on but the Hobbit got good reviews. Maybe the usccb does the movie reviews.
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silicasandra
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I love Eowyn’s story, but I think it was done much, much better in the book. I enjoyed the LotR films, but almost none of the “Catholicity” of the books is there - and considering the filmmakers are almost totally ignorant of that part of it, it makes sense that it isn’t there.
Actually for my undergraduate senior “comprehensive project,” I wrote about the female characters of LotR (who may be few and far between, but all of them are central to the story). I probably had the most fun writing about Galadriel, since she has a lot in common with the Blessed Virgin Mary. Oh, and Shelob, who represents almost every fleshy sin you can think of.
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Winter_Warlock_1
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Bill,
There is a book called “Finding God in the Lord of the Rings”. Tolkien was a very devout Catholic and he did take a lot of reference from the Bible and from WWII. Below are some of the references:
The Ring – represents sin.
The bread from the elves translates to – the Bread of Life.
Gandalf dies in the first movie and is resurrected in the second – just as Jesus was.
Aaragon in the third movie – represents the King returning – Jesus returning.
Sam tells Frodo that he cannot carry the ring (Frodo’s sin) but he can help carry Frodo – just as Jesus helps us carry our own sin.
Aarogan in the third movie also judges the dead and frees them.
There are many more but these are the ones that I can remember off hand.
Winter
There is a book called “Finding God in the Lord of the Rings”. Tolkien was a very devout Catholic and he did take a lot of reference from the Bible and from WWII. Below are some of the references:
The Ring – represents sin.
The bread from the elves translates to – the Bread of Life.
Gandalf dies in the first movie and is resurrected in the second – just as Jesus was.
Aaragon in the third movie – represents the King returning – Jesus returning.
Sam tells Frodo that he cannot carry the ring (Frodo’s sin) but he can help carry Frodo – just as Jesus helps us carry our own sin.
Aarogan in the third movie also judges the dead and frees them.
There are many more but these are the ones that I can remember off hand.
Winter
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billcu1
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Thanks very much. I saw the first trilogy and am looking forward to this next one. I will keep these things in mind. The bishops are not giving this movie an “O” as in morally offensive in reviews. So many movies not worth watching these days.
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AnastasiaRomano
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I imagine that’s largely due to the fact that most movies out today are morally offensive or at least morally questionable. The Hobbit, on the other hand, is based on a children’s book… Tolkien was a Catholic, and his Catholicism did influence some of the themes in his writing, but not to the extent of say CS Lewis’s pure allegories. The Hobbit has fewer Catholic themes or images than the Lord of the Rings trilogy, but it’s a nice story – and, if the movie makers followed the book, it will not be a morally offensive movie like many Hollywood productions.
We’re seeing the film tomorrow, and I’m definitely looking forward to it!
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Razanir
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A few comments:
- The Hobbit (book) is more like a Pixar movie, in that people of all ages can find it interesting.
- Lewis was actually Anglican, much to Tolkien’s dismay. Lewis used to be atheist, but Tolkien converted him back to Christianity, at least.
- Random fact of the day: His eldest son actually became a priest, and if I remember correctly, was even the priest at his father’s funeral Mass.
- Woo! Midnight premiere!
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pnewton
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They have been doing these reviews for years. The reviews are now been passed off to CNS website, but one can still look them up.
catholicnews.com/movies.htm
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underacloud
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There is a wonderful moment in Return of the King. When the hordes of orcs have begun raiding Minas Tirith and Pippin is sure they are doomed…the clamour of the battle fades into the background as Pippin and Gandalf have this wonderfully peaceful discussion…
Pippin: I didn’t think it would end this way.
Gandalf: End? No, the journey doesn’t end here. Death is just another path… One that we all must take. The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all turns to silver glass… And then you see it.
Pippin: What? Gandalf?.. See what?
Gandalf: White shores… and beyond, a far green country under a swift sunrise.
Pippin: [smiling] Well, that isn’t so bad.
Gandalf: [softly] No… No it isn’t.
In a story filled with death and waste and hopelessness, it was an amazing aside. Given that much of what Tolkein wrote was a reaction to the horrors of WWI, this was such a striking moment and reminder to all that the greatest horrors of this life will all pass.
Pippin: I didn’t think it would end this way.
Gandalf: End? No, the journey doesn’t end here. Death is just another path… One that we all must take. The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all turns to silver glass… And then you see it.
Pippin: What? Gandalf?.. See what?
Gandalf: White shores… and beyond, a far green country under a swift sunrise.
Pippin: [smiling] Well, that isn’t so bad.
Gandalf: [softly] No… No it isn’t.
In a story filled with death and waste and hopelessness, it was an amazing aside. Given that much of what Tolkein wrote was a reaction to the horrors of WWI, this was such a striking moment and reminder to all that the greatest horrors of this life will all pass.
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Winter_Warlock_1
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As a follow up to my last post on this subject. Just a few other correlations to the Bible in the movie were:
In the second movie when Galdalf freed the King of Rohan from the evil wizard – was just as Jesus purging the demons from the man possessed.
In the third movie Aaragon judged the dead and found their oaths for filled – just as Jesus will also judge the living and the dead.
In the first movie the “fellowship” could be refinanced to the fellowship of the disciples that followed Jesus.
Winter
In the second movie when Galdalf freed the King of Rohan from the evil wizard – was just as Jesus purging the demons from the man possessed.
In the third movie Aaragon judged the dead and found their oaths for filled – just as Jesus will also judge the living and the dead.
In the first movie the “fellowship” could be refinanced to the fellowship of the disciples that followed Jesus.
Winter
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Razanir
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Okay. I’m back and have ideas for Christian/Catholic themes in the Hobbit. Today the homily mentioned the Hobbit (the priest went to the midnight showing). He said we shouldn’t horde our wealth like Smaug. I thought that sounded similar to the sin of greed. Then I realized, “Hey, both times the dwarfs have fallen, it was because they were too greedy!” (Erebor attracting Smaug, and Moria waking Durin’s Bane)
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