The Holy Face

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I have heard them speak of this before on EWTN and it is sometimes called the sudarium(sp) which is a sweat cloth that was place over the face of a corpse in biblical times

I have also heard it called the mandylion, but I don’t know what that term means

Anyway, for those of you that find this stuff compelling, here is an article about it. I find it all very fascinating and uplifting

messengersaintanthony.com/messaggero/pagina_articolo.asp?IDX=320IDRX=93
 
redrosetea said:
I have heard them speak of this before on EWTN and it is sometimes called the sudarium(sp) which is a sweat cloth that was place over the face of a corpse in biblical times

I have also heard it called the mandylion, but I don’t know what that term means

Anyway, for those of you that find this stuff compelling, here is an article about it. I find it all very fascinating and uplifting

messengersaintanthony.com/messaggero/pagina_articolo.asp?IDX=320IDRX=93
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That does not look real to me. A sweat cloth that shows everything in colour?? The face looks like medieval painted European faces unlike the Shroud which shows a Jewish face.
 
I think it’s hard to photograph it…I have seen pictures of it in it’s glass frame , being venerated and it was so dark you could hardly see ii,

It is a strange thing, the image is the same on both sides. I have a link to a website that tells about byssus, which they think the material might be, that it is impritned on

If you are intersted I can give you the link

I wish I had the photo of the veneration you could see what I mean
 
redrosetea said:
I think it’s hard to photograph it…I have seen pictures of it in it’s glass frame , being venerated and it was so dark you could hardly see ii,

It is a strange thing, the image is the same on both sides. I have a link to a website that tells about byssus, which they think the material might be, that it is impritned on

If you are intersted I can give you the link

I wish I had the photo of the veneration you could see what I mean
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We discussed the Manoppello Veil in a Shroud of Turin thread here; apparently another theory exists that the image was a self-portrait of Albrecht Durer made in the 16th century (he was said to have painted an image of himself on a byssus cloth and sent it to Raphael, who was so impressed that he sent Durer some of his own drawings in return); another (also mentioned in the above PDF) links it to Raphael rather than Durer. But who knows…
 
I have an article by a woman that works with byssus cloth. she gathers the mollusk and creates fabric from it

She defiantly says it can’t be painted on, it can only be dyed purple…She seems to be an expert in this field and knows what she is talking about
 
I have also heard it called the mandylion, but I don’t know what that term means

"Mandylion" comes from the word “mantle” (MANDYAS in Greek).
 
Byssus cloth, since it was made from mollusks is thin and fine that it can’t be painted on, yes.

It was actually debated, however whether the Veil was made of byssus or cambric (a lightweight cotton cloth used as fabric for lace and needlework).

Note that the word byssus (Hebrew būṣ ‘fine linen,’ Aramaic bus, Greek βύσσος ‘a very fine yellowish flax and the linen woven from it’, Latin byssus ‘fine cotton or cotton stuff’, 'silk’) was originally not only used for excretions of mollusks, but also for exceptionally fine and valuable fibre or cloth of ancient times.
Originally used for fine flax and linens, its use was later extended to fine cottons, silks, and sea silk.

As for Dürer’s portrait, Giorgio Vasari mentions it as such:

“By these and other works the fame of Raphael spread to France and Flanders. Albrecht Dürer, a remarkable German painter and author of some fine copper engravings, paid him the tribute of his homage and sent him his own portrait, painted in water-colours, on byssus, so fine that it was transparent, without the use of white paint, the white material forming the lights of the picture This appeared marvellous to Raphael, who sent back many drawings of his own which were greatly valued by Albert…”

Vasari again mentions it in the second edition of his ‘Vite’, at the chapter about the life of Giulio Romano:

“Among the numerous treasures in his house there was a portrait of Albrecht Dürer, by himself, on fine cambric, sent by him to Raphael, diligently executed in water-colours, and finished without using white lead, the fabric itself serving for the whites and the fine threads being used to represent the hairs of the beard, and when held up to the light it wastransparent all over. Giulio, who valued it highly, showed it to me himself as a miracle once when I was on business at Mantua…”

If Vasari used ‘byssus’ in the archaic sense (an exceptionally fine fibre or bloth), then there would be no contradiction when he described the same portrait as made of ‘cambric’ later on.
 
I guess they wont be able to determine what it is made from until the time when they take it out from the glass, it is sandwiched between

I read that Pope Benedict went to the Chruch where it was kept to view it

What ever it is seems to be a mystery, sort of like the shroud
 
redrosetea said:
I guess they wont be able to determine what it is made from until the time when they take it out from the glass, it is sandwiched between

I read that Pope Benedict went to the Chruch where it was kept to view it

What ever it is seems to be a mystery, sort of like the shroud
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Yep, quite a mystery. Whether it is the true Veil of Veronica or not, perhaps we’ll never know in this life.

As for Pope Benedict’s visit to Manoppello, yes I’ve heard of it; but that does not mean that there’s suddenly a Papal support for the Veil in Manoppello. We won’t hear the Pope suddenly declaring the Veil to be the true and actual one tomorrow, just as we won’t hear him declare infallibly that the Shroud is authentic (for the record, yes I do believe the Shroud is authentic).
 
I think its fascinating to read about this stuff. If it is fake, they must have been exceptionally bright people with great talent to make an article so mysterious, and so clever
 
Tuesday is the day devoted to the Holy Face. Every Tuesday I make the Prayers of Reparation to the Holy Face of Jesus, honoring the five wounds of His most adorable Face. Honoring each of the five wounds…sight, hearing, smell, taste and touch. There is a special chaplet that one uses to accompany this devotion…it is a beautiful devotion and one that I encourage others to say. Here is more information:

angelqueen.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14999

and more info:

holyface.org/enter_eng.htm

Please study and read of this devotion…it is most important and quite beautiful. Nothing is too much to ask for Our Lord…
 
piouswoman said:
Tuesday is the day devoted to the Holy Face. Every Tuesday I make the Prayers of Reparation to the Holy Face of Jesus, honoring the five wounds of His most adorable Face. Honoring each of the five wounds…sight, hearing, smell, taste and touch. There is a special chaplet that one uses to accompany this devotion…it is a beautiful devotion and one that I encourage others to say. Here is more information:

angelqueen.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14999

and more info:

holyface.org/enter_eng.htm

Please study and read of this devotion…it is most important and quite beautiful. Nothing is too much to ask for Our Lord…
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Correct me if I’m wrong, but the Feast of the Holy Face is Shrove Tuesday (the day before Ash Wednesday), isn’t it? or so I’ve heard. 🙂
 
patrick457 said:
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the Feast of the Holy Face is Shrove Tuesday (the day before Ash Wednesday), isn’t it? or so I’ve heard. 🙂
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I found this for you:
holyface.org.uk/content/holyfacefeast.htm

This is, of course, the new Church calendar…I follow the Traditional Liturgical Calendar which does not have the Tuesday before Ash Wednesday as the Feast of the Holy Face. Nevertheless…the devotion to the Holy Face of Jesus Christ is a most important devotion, especially in our times…
 
Thanks for the info.

I previously just thought of the cloth as a ‘not very good painting’. But there may be more to it than i originally thought.
 
bpbasilphx said:
I have also heard it called the mandylion, but I don’t know what that term means

"Mandylion" comes from the word “mantle” (MANDYAS in Greek).
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According to the story, King Abgar V Ouchama (AD 13 - 50) of Edessa wrote a letter to Jesus, asking him to come cure him of an (incurable) illness (which some identify as leprosy), which he sent via his secretary, Hannan (to which he was also said to have entrusted a task of painting an image of Jesus):

"*Abgar Ouchama to Jesus, the Good Physician who has appeared in the country of Jerusalem, greeting:

I have heard of you, and of your healing; you do not heal by medicines and by drugs, but by your word you make blind men see, make the lame walk and the lepers clear, and you make deaf men hear and you cast out spirits and night-wandering demons, and you heal the miserable by your word, and also raise dead men to life.

I heard these great wonders that you do, I put in my mind that either you are God who came down from Heaven and did these, or you are the Son of God, that you do all these.

I write and ask you that you come to me, that I may prostrate myself before you, and you heal a certain pain that I have, since I believe in you. Also, I have further heard this, that the Jews are murmuring against you and persecuting you, and even wish to crucify you and intend to do away with you. I have but one small city, but it is beautiful and sufficient for the two of us to inhabit in peace.*"

When Hannan came to Jerusalem, he attempted to paint Jesus’ image, to no avail. Jesus then saw and called him by name (Hannan was standing atop a rock as there are a lot of people around Jesus), and asking for a towel and a basin of water, He washed His face and rubbed it on the towel and an image of His face appeared. He then dictated his reply to Hannan and sent him back to Abgar along with the towel and the letter:

"*Blessed are you that when you have not seen me you believe in me! For it is written about me that those who see me will not believe in me, (and those who do not see me will believe and live).

And that you have written to me that I should come to you that for which I have been sent here is now fulfilled, and I am about to ascend to my Father who sent me; and when I have ascended to him, I will send you one of my disciples, who will heal and cure whatever pain you have, and all who are with you he will lead to eternal life (and your city will be blessed, and no enemy in the future will ever take it over).*’"
 
abucs said:
Thanks for the info.

I previously just thought of the cloth as a ‘not very good painting’. But there may be more to it than i originally thought.
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I feel the same way and I am not sure the image we see if s photo or an artist rendering of the relic

It sounds to me like it would be difficult to photograph something that you could look right through and read a paper placed behind it
 
That’s a good point redrosetea.
It would explain why the examples we see look like a painting.
I might read up more on it when i get a chance.

God Bless.
 
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