The Holy Father and Governments

[Bl_Pope_Pius_IX]

There are modern states today that don’t have an army and they’re doing well, I don’t know why anybody would advocate for the Vatican to have one. That’s not only a horrible idea, but a complete waste of money and resources.

There is a system called “Peters Pence” It supplies money for the Vatican. Plus, in 1860 - 1870, the Papal States had an army that was entirely voluntary. The soldiers were given home and food. It is neither a waste of money nor resources.

What would this proposed Vatican army do? Invade countries that have legalized abortion? Have special forces unit to rescue religious prisoners?

How would the Church pay for it?

Not only is the idea ridiculous AND dangerous, but it’s practically impossible.

I never proposed to invade ANY countries. Please, stop that. The Papal Army could be for defense purposes, or even to be deployed in Darfur to assist there. Or to guard pilgrims to Holy Lands or to protect Bishops in China (Lord knows, they need it). The Pontifical army was only mostly disbanded in 1970 by Paul VI. It assisted in WWII in guarding the Holy Father (and Jewish refugees). I already said how the Church would pay fo it - Peters Pence or a voluntary force.

The spread of Christianity in the Roman Empire was dangerous too, but that never stopped the Apostles. As for its impossibility, nothing is impossible when God has your back

~ Pius :knight1:

 

[TradionalWay]

I think, same as the americans have their pride of their country and their patriotism, should we catholics have aswell :knight1:

 

[AntalKalnoky]

That is terrible! They waged WAR against Our Holy Father, and you thank God for it? Please, help me understand as you do. It may have contributed to greed and corruption, but if you ignore the actual fruits that were born from the Papal States, that isn’t very good at all.The Borgia’s counted as one Pope. Yet, you ignore many fine Popes that lived proudly in the Papal States.

Though we must concentrate on the work of God, the resurrection of the Papal States would be an assett to it. A refuge for persecuted Catholics. A haven from sin and vice. In this modern world, a Papal State would thrive. If the Sovereign Military Order of Malta can have a military - so can the Papal States. To fight for what is right.

For political prisoners who need asylum? The Papacy is there. I pray for its return, and hopefully in my lifetime. And if there were to be a call to arms for it? I would gladly give my life.

Of course, it must be made sure that it would not turn to corruption, but I doubt that could happen today.

~ Pius :knight1:

• It was a Historic, Ideal Change by The Pope and Magistarium to focus on The Church/Christ, NOT Earthly or Military Power, Earthly Rule.
  Those encouraged greed and corruption, Church Leadership evils, Immoralities Known publically, which Resulted in The Reformation. "Selling" Inulgances was Not Stopped by the Then Vatican, and was Not the Cause: Fr Groeschell, et al.

 

[AntalKalnoky]

I think, same as the americans have their pride of their country and their patriotism, should we catholics have aswell :knight1:

Yes, not False wars to ‘conquer’ Middle East Nations; Focus on Military Might, Slash Cocial Concerns Spending, ‘justifying’ Known/Decralered/Acknowledged War Crimes Torture of “Suspects” Policy, Enriching the Richest ** Few** Percent From National Historic Priorioties, Etc., Etc.

 

[SanAgustin]

There is a system called “Peters Pence” It supplies money for the Vatican. Plus, in 1860 - 1870, the Papal States had an army that was entirely voluntary. The soldiers were given home and food. It is neither a waste of money nor resources.

It is a waste of money of resources if we take into account how much money the Vatican raises via Peters Pence which has actually gone down in recent years. Building and maintain a real army cost money.

I never proposed to invade ANY countries. Please, stop that. The Papal Army could be for defense purposes,

Defend against who? To figure out how big of a military you need, you’d have to list potential threats.

or even to be deployed in Darfur to assist there.

Is there a reason why Vatican soldiers would be better than UN blue helmets there?

Or to guard pilgrims to Holy Lands

Unlikely that Vatican soldiers would be allowed in the Holy Land.

or to protect Bishops in China (Lord knows, they need it).

China wouldn’t allow it, and even attempting to it could lead to a confrontation with a huge country. There is almost no plausible scenario in which this would ever happen!

 

[Bl_Pope_Pius_IX]

It is a waste of money of resources if we take into account how much money the Vatican raises via Peters Pence which has actually gone down in recent years. Building and maintain a real army cost money.

Hence why I suggested a volunteer army and supplying them with food and housing and perhaps arms.

Defend against who? To figure out how big of a military you need, you’d have to list potential threats.

Secularists, extremists, et cetera. I think you are thinking I am suggesting brigades upon brigades of men. I am not. Pius IX never had more than 10,000 men in his States at one time.Obviously we wouldn’t need more than 1,000. As a defense force. But in lands where Bishops are threatened, they need guards. I think it necessary

Is there a reason why Vatican soldiers would be better than UN blue helmets there?

I don’t trust the UN. Plus, some Pontifical Zouaves in Darfur would help the Papal image

Unlikely that Vatican soldiers would be allowed in the Holy Land.

All they would be are a few armed soldiers in discreet clothing protecting pilgrimages. A recent pilgrimage to the Holy Land from my Parish had my Parish Priest so worried. I felt bad for him.

China wouldn’t allow it, and even attempting to it could lead to a confrontation with a huge country. There is almost no plausible scenario in which this would ever happen!

China wouldn’t need to allow it. They would simply be “citizen - bodyguards” per se for the Bishop. I wasn’t proposing a regiment in Beijing.

• It was a Historic, Ideal Change by The Pope and Magistarium to focus on The Church/Christ, NOT Earthly or Military Power, Earthly Rule.
  

                                                                                                                  Those   encouraged  greed  and  corruption,    Church    Leadership        evils,   Immoralities  Known  publically,    which  Resulted in The  Reformation.    "Selling"   Inulgances  was Not  Stopped by the  Then  Vatican, and was Not the   Cause:    Fr  Groeschell, et  al.

It was, indeed an historic change. But, since Pius IX - Pius XI protested it, methinks the Papacy was not fond of it, and didn’t accept it so neither should the faithful. I have said before that we CAN focus on Church/Christ and temporal power. If we couldn’t then we wouldn’t have had it up until 1870. Indulgences weren’t even brought up and neither was Father Groeschell. I am a bit confused

~ Pius :knight1:

 

[TradionalWay]

 

[TradionalWay]

Hence why I suggested a volunteer army and supplying them with food and housing and perhaps arms.

Secularists, extremists, et cetera. I think you are thinking I am suggesting brigades upon brigades of men. I am not. Pius IX never had more than 10,000 men in his States at one time.Obviously we wouldn’t need more than 1,000. As a defense force. But in lands where Bishops are threatened, they need guards. I think it necessary

I don’t trust the UN. Plus, some Pontifical Zouaves in Darfur would help the Papal image

All they would be are a few armed soldiers in discreet clothing protecting pilgrimages. A recent pilgrimage to the Holy Land from my Parish had my Parish Priest so worried. I felt bad for him.

China wouldn’t need to allow it. They would simply be “citizen - bodyguards” per se for the Bishop. I wasn’t proposing a regiment in Beijing.

It was, indeed an historic change. But, since Pius IX - Pius XI protested it, methinks the Papacy was not fond of it, and didn’t accept it so neither should the faithful. I have said before that we CAN focus on Church/Christ and temporal power. If we couldn’t then we wouldn’t have had it up until 1870. Indulgences weren’t even brought up and neither was Father Groeschell. I am a bit confused

~ Pius :knight1:

The flag flies proudly once again- youtube.com/user/romereports?feature=chclk#p/u/1/d8aeIG1PY-8