The Holy Grail

[ConstantineTG]

The disciples did not take the grail with them. They left it with the owner.

Any proof to this claim? I would think that the grail is a family heirloom as is the tradition I’ve read among Jews. Quite possibly St. James kept it with him in Jerusalem if this was the case.

 

[Sacred_Heart_1]

It’s not likely that they thought, or would have been allowed, to retrieve the Cross, either.

Who exactly retrieved the cross? Where is that in scripture? The disciples weren’t men who went around retrieving relics. There is not one single instance within scripture that insists that they do.

 

[Sacred_Heart_1]

Any proof to this claim? I would think that the grail is a family heirloom as is the tradition I’ve read among Jews. Quite possibly St. James kept it with him in Jerusalem if this was the case.

Where in scripture does it say St. James kept it with him in Jerusalem?

 

[ConstantineTG]

Who exactly retrieved the cross? Where is that in scripture? The disciples weren’t men who went around retrieving relics. There is not one single instance within scripture that insists that they do.

St. Helen, the mother of St. Constantine the Great, retrieved the True Cross from Jerusalem in the 4th century. We celebrate the Exaltation of the Holy Cross every September 14, both East and West. Although it is a bigger feast in the East than it is in the Latin Rite Church.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feast_of_the_Cross

 

[ConstantineTG]

Where in scripture does it say St. James kept it with him in Jerusalem?

Where in scripture does it say the grail belonged to the owner of the place they celebrated the Passover? Where in scripture did it say it was left there?

 

[Sacred_Heart_1]

St. Helen, the mother of St. Constantine the Great, retrieved the True Cross from Jerusalem in the 4th century. We celebrate the Exaltation of the Holy Cross every September 14, both East and West. Although it is a bigger feast in the East than it is in the Latin Rite Church.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feast_of_the_Cross

That’s just a myth. How did St. Helen know that she had the True Cross and not just a piece of wood?

You see the cross Jesus would have been crucified on would have been used over and over in crucifying others. It would have been lost after the crucifixion of Jesus.

 

[ConstantineTG]

That’s just a myth. How did St. Helen know that she had the True Cross and not just a piece of wood?

You see the cross Jesus would have been crucified on would have been used over and over in crucifying others. It would have been lost after the crucifixion of Jesus.

Its not a myth, it is a tradition of the Church. So you are saying the Church celebrates a feast based on a myth?

If you want to know more about it, why not go do some research before making claims against the Church?

 

[Sacred_Heart_1]

Where in scripture does it say the grail belonged to the owner of the place they celebrated the Passover? Where in scripture did it say it was left there?

Doesn’t a man who owns a house also own cups to drink out of? And aren’t those cups his belongings and remain in his house after the guests leave?

 

[Sacred_Heart_1]

Its not a myth, it is a tradition of the Church. So you are saying the Church celebrates a feast based on a myth?

If you want to know more about it, why not go do some research before making claims against the Church?

Tell me how did St. Helen know she had a piece of the True Cross? Did she just point to a piece of wood and say there it is?

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

Its not a myth, it is a tradition of the Church. So you are saying the Church celebrates a feast based on a myth?

If you want to know more about it, why not go do some research before making claims against the Church?

Its a pious tradition but not a sacred tradition. Individuals are free to believe or not believe in the historical authenticity of the tradition of the true cross being found by Constantine’s mother Helen.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

Tell me how did St. Helen know she had a piece of the True Cross? Did she just point to a piece of wood and say there it is?

When the emperor’s mother says something its best for your health to believe her…

 

[zab]

Its a pious tradition but not a sacred tradition. Individuals are free to believe or not believe in the historical authenticity of the tradition of the true cross being found by Constantine’s mother Helen.

Is it also a pious tradition to believe that the places where Jesus died on Golgatha and where he was buried and rose from the dead are found within the Church of the Holy Sepulchre which has been a place of Christian pilgrimage since at least the 4th century? St. Helena is believed to have found the True Cross during the excavation of the site over which the Church of the Holy Sepulchre was built. It was also Constantine and Helena who were responsible for the building of the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem over the site where Jesus was born.

 

[LiseTravis]

I gave it to my pastor. I bought it when we saw Spamalot in Las Vegas. Really!

There were quite a few people with Holy Grails, the theater was selling them with some sort of frozen drink in them.

It was plastic, but gold-tone, and encrusted with plastic jewels. Very nice size and shape. We wrapped it up and told our pastor that we did well in Vegas and we bought him a chalice. He was dumfounded, and as he started to unwrap it, we told him it wasn’t just any chalice, it was the Holy Grail. By then the light weight had wised him up a little and that clinched the joke. I’m sure he got plenty of mileage out of it with his priest pals. :extrahappy:

:rotfl:

 

[centurionguard]

Is it also a pious tradition to believe that the places where Jesus died on Golgatha and where he was buried and rose from the dead are found within the Church of the Holy Sepulchre which has been a place of Christian pilgrimage since at least the 4th century? St. Helena is believed to have found the True Cross during the excavation of the site over which the Church of the Holy Sepulchre was built. It was also Constantine and Helena who were responsible for the building of the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem over the site where Jesus was born.

Given the overwhelming conjecture around the whereabouts of the Holy Grail I know little much beyond it being last in the possession of Joseph of Arimathea, except to hear that it was possibly stolen. And really who would know what they had in their possession unless they were closely related to the Apostles.

I’m comfortable to except that the true Holy Grail used at the Last Supper not unlike the original Ark of the Covenant are left hidden in secret for whatever reason should necessitate it from staying unknown. Suppose the Catholic Church did secretly have in her possession the real Holy Grail. But in her wisdom she decided to keep it secret and away from public judgment, scrutiny, and ridicule. I would be comfortable with that plausibility also. 2000 years of Christian historic antiquity is a fairly long time.

The True Cross unearthed at the site of the Holy Sepulchre and the Veronica Cloth are about the two blessed objects I can think of in existence directly related to Jesus.
The Shroud of Taurin is plausibly another.

 

[A_G]

You’re being unreasonable. The grail was owned by the man who allowed Jesus and his disciples to use his room for the passover. It is logical that he kept it himself, the man and in all truth it probably got wore out or destroyed over time.

The disciples weren’t about collecting artifacts; so in all truth the grail was likely to stay with its owner, where he used it to drink with and live with until it fulfilled its purpose and was tossed away like a piece of trash. Mine is the logical and truthful explanation. Your’s are all based on fantasies and speculation.

Excuse me, but please do not attack me. I am simply stating that there are many theories out there and I heard of some of these theories on a program I’ve recently seen on tv. I simply said there are theories. I did not give an opinion of my own on the topic.

 

[Timothysis]

Is it also a pious tradition to believe that the places where Jesus died on Golgatha and where he was buried and rose from the dead are found within the Church of the Holy Sepulchre which has been a place of Christian pilgrimage since at least the 4th century? St. Helena is believed to have found the True Cross during the excavation of the site over which the Church of the Holy Sepulchre was built. It was also Constantine and Helena who were responsible for the building of the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem over the site where Jesus was born.

One should be very careful about the “pious traditions” that have worked their way into the fabric of the faith throughout the centuries. Read some of the stories of the people during the first crusade and be amazed that the Catholic faith ever made it this far.

 

[SMA_12]

Tell me how did St. Helen know she had a piece of the True Cross? Did she just point to a piece of wood and say there it is?

I have been to a relic presentation at my church that displayed a piece of the true cross. The story goes like this…

Constantine found the documentation of the city where the crosses were buried during Christ’s lifetime. (the Romans are historically known for their extensive organization of their archives. For example, today we have more documentation from the Romans that Jesus of Nazareth died from crucifixion, than we have documentation that Julius Caesar even existed… Yet no one doubts of his existence.)

So Constantine asked his mother, St. Helen, to go to try to retrieve the cross. Well at first she had no luck. But eventually she had a vision in a dream of the exact field where it was buried. So she found the field and ordered it to be dug up. The problem was there was not only one cross, but hundreds…

How did they figure out which one was the true cross you ask? There was a woman on her death bead, who was sure to die within a couple days. They brought the woman around to lay down on each piece of wood, hoping something miraculous might happen. It took awhile but sure enough as she laid down on one of the crosses, she was completely cured!

That’s how they knew it was the True Cross of Jesus.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Doesn’t a man who owns a house also own cups to drink out of? And aren’t those cups his belongings and remain in his house after the guests leave?

Where in scripture did it say they borrowed cups?

 

[ConstantineTG]

Its a pious tradition but not a sacred tradition. Individuals are free to believe or not believe in the historical authenticity of the tradition of the true cross being found by Constantine’s mother Helen.

Why do we Liturgically celebrate it if its optional belief? What happened to lex orandi, lex credendi?

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

Is it also a pious tradition to believe that the places where Jesus died on Golgatha and where he was buried and rose from the dead are found within the Church of the Holy Sepulchre which has been a place of Christian pilgrimage since at least the 4th century? St. Helena is believed to have found the True Cross during the excavation of the site over which the Church of the Holy Sepulchre was built. It was also Constantine and Helena who were responsible for the building of the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem over the site where Jesus was born.

Yes, pious tradition. No one is required to believe in their historical accuracy.