The holy priesthood can marry

[PatienceAndLove]

Titus 3:9-11

“But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him. You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.”

I put some stuff in red so its harder to miss

But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

I put it in red so it’s harder to miss.

 

[Reuben_J]

Timothy Chapter 3 gives orders to those that are planning on overseeing the church body, and in those instructions an overseer or deacon are allowed to be married or have children.

So whats up with most Catholics following the man-made doctrine?

Looking at how you phrase your question, you must be fresh from a Fundamentalist / Evangelical oven, though I could be wrong. Anyway, welcome to the Forum and thanks for wanting to know more about the Catholic faith. There are many Catholics here who will be glad to oblige you.

As for your question, it helps to know that Paul says you are allowed to be unmarried in order to focus your life for the Lord (paraphrase mine). That’s the first part of the answer to your question. Unmarried deacon is allowed.

Secondly, in the Catholic Church, one needs not necessary to be unmarried to serve her, unless of course if you are eyeing to be a priest or religous sisters. But we believe that priests and religous sisters are spiritual vocations - in other word, they are God’s calling.

I share with you some wisdoms by Paul on this for your reflection:

1 Cor7

7 I wish that all men were as I am. But each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.

29What I mean, brothers, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they had none; 30those who mourn, as if they did not; those who are happy, as if they were not; those who buy something, as if it were not theirs to keep; 31those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away.

32I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord’s affairs—how he can please the Lord. 33But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world—how he can please his wife— 34and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord’s affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world—how she can please her husband. 35I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord.

36If anyone thinks he is acting improperly toward the virgin he is engaged to, and if she is getting along in years and he feels he ought to marry, he should do as he wants. He is not sinning. They should get married. 37But the man who has settled the matter in his own mind, who is under no compulsion but has control over his own will, and who has made up his mind not to marry the virgin—this man also does the right thing. 38So then, he who marries the virgin does right, but he who does not marry her does even better.

39A woman is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to marry anyone she wishes, but he must belong to the Lord. 40In my judgment, she is happier if she stays as she is—and I think that I too have the Spirit of God.​

 

[cathopologist]

Im gonna be real with you bro I did all the Catholic classes and all that stuff, I basically learned all the stuff you did, I just took my research a little further. I understand that this falls on deaf ears, but I am here to be like Jeremiah and warn you that you must repent because the kingdom is near.

Heres a great book to check out: Pagan Christianity

I don’t mean to sound insulting, but you sound alot like the Fundamentalists of the 80’s and 90’s. Until their ‘rapturistic’ hell-fire and doom fell on deaf ears as people could no longer take their holier-than-thou approach and started to refute their man-made doctrines.

 

[cfrancis]

Im gonna be real with you bro I did all the Catholic classes and all that stuff, I basically learned all the stuff you did, I just took my research a little further. I understand that this falls on deaf ears, but I am here to be like Jeremiah and warn you that you must repent because the kingdom is near.

Heres a great book to check out: Pagan Christianity

Now I’m gonna be real with you, bro. Whatever it was you learned, it certainly wasn’t Catholic teaching and you certainly haven’t learned the Bible yet, either.
I know this falls on deaf ears, but you must first actually know that which you attempt to discredit.
You’re in the right place if you want to learn about the Catholic Church, as you obviously need to do.

I suppose you will tell us everything you now believe is in the Bible, right?
OK, here’s something for you to find in the Bible: what books make up the Bible.

 

[eucharisteo]

FollowTheWay, are you Church of Christ by any chance?

 

[MarkBrown]

Timothy Chapter 3 gives orders to those that are planning on overseeing the church body, and in those instructions an overseer or deacon are allowed to be married or have children.

So whats up with most Catholics following the man-made doctrine?

I know Baptists preachers and Anglican priest who are not married. Some what to be, but have not been blessed by God. (the blessed by God part is in case my wife reads this… )

Why do you have a burr up…under your saddle about whether a Roman Catholic priest can get married. I do not agree with this pious opinion, but why make it an issue? This is silly.

 

[MarkBrown]

Then obviously you dont remember the seven sacraments (which according to catholic doctrine is the only way to heaven) In the seven sacraments you only choose marriage or holy orders. How many married priests have you met? In fact woman was created for man for them to be joined as one, so why can a woman(nun) not marry either. After all the first command given to us was be fruitful and multiply.

Hey, wait a minute…I think you are confused. Only baptism and confirmation are tied with salvation. Only two for salvation. Holy Orders…not all are called by God. Grace is through the sacrament, but not saving grace.

I have meet quite a few married priest.

So, the man and woman who marry and want children, but God does not bless with children are disobeying God…how?

Have you just graduated from a Bible school?

 

[MarkBrown]

Patience and love - you do realize your talking about the OT temple which was destroyed, and now the temple is you right? Also the NT tells us that it would be helpful to stay unmarried, but under those circumstances that would apply mainly to missionaries. It is firm Catholic doctrine not to be married.

Where did Paul say only missionaries? Your track record of quotation of scripture has been fairly dismal.

It is firm Catholic doctrine not to be married?! The wife is not going to like this. How are we going to put all five kids back?

I think I know my wife’s answer!:nunchuk:

 

[MarkBrown]

Im gonna be real with you bro I did all the Catholic classes and all that stuff, I basically learned all the stuff you did, I just took my research a little further. I understand that this falls on deaf ears, but I am here to be like Jeremiah and warn you that you must repent because the kingdom is near.

Heres a great book to check out: Pagan Christianity

Ok…emergent Church is who you are.

Explains alot about the judgmental attitude, lack of maturity and problems with the scriptures. And authority!!

To the Roman Catholics…Followtheway has problems with everyone…not just you.

 

[MarkBrown]

Sisters are brides in Christ? and this is not Catholic doctrine? I believe you need to let go of catechism and get Christ.

Thank you all for listening and repent and accept the Christ

Galatians 1:8

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!

How are you any different from what you say you dislike? We must believe YOUR way or we are damned. YOUR narrow view is the only way…no room for anything outside YOUR very narrow and simplistic view.

You do not even understand the context of the scripture you quote. By what you write, you do not understand the Bible for you take bits and pieces and weave some strange doctrines and call them Gods’.

Here is a bit of scripture from Christ Himself
"Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord,Lord’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord,Lord’ have we not prophesied in Your name,cast out demons in Your name and done many wondes in Your name? And then I will declare to them,‘I never knew you; depart from Me you who practice lawlessness!’

Then there is the lesson on pointing out others sin, when we oursleves are not taking care of our own sin.

And the Galatians scripture…again a two edged sword.

 

[Apologist78]

Timothy Chapter 3 gives orders to those that are planning on overseeing the church body, and in those instructions an overseer or deacon are allowed to be married or have children.

So whats up with most Catholics following the man-made doctrine?

It is quite true that priests and bishops CAN marry, and granted that the practice of celibacy is a human tradition. Finally it is true that the Bible does give instructions for those who are married, etc.

So what? The protestant doctrine of “Sola Scriptura” is NOT, I repeat NOT, and NEVER HAS BEEN a denial of the role and use of human “tradition” within the Christian Church. For citation I refer you to the following authors: James White, R.C. Sproul, Robert Godfrey. The list is not meant to be exhaustive. The same authors would simply say that Scripture serves as the Supreme Norm of everything, hence tradition while useful is normed by the higher authority of Scripture.

Based on the above, then, it is YOU who must show that the human tradition of celibacy is somehow a dangerous practice, and detrimental to the Body of Christ. Furthermore it is YOU who must show that the practice is somehow contrary to or against the Bible. Produce for us the verse or verses which order priests and religious to marry, or deny the ability of the Church to mandate for good reason the practice of the human tradition of celibacy.

On a final note I also refer you to the fact that Peter was married- but after having been given is “new” calling and vocation by Jesus left EVERYTHING and followed him. Catholics would say that the vocation to marriage while good and worthy is of a different kind then the vocation to the priesthood or religious life. In the priesthood and religious life the calling is for exclusive service within the Body of Christ, and to exclusively commit yourself to Christ. In marriage the calling is in the world, and to commit yourself exclusively to another person signing and symbolizing in marriage the true unity that Christ has with his Church. In short priests and religious are called to celibacy (at least in the Western Tradition) becasue it is a greater reflection of the nature of priesthood, and the nature of religious life.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Timothy Chapter 3 gives orders to those that are planning on overseeing the church body, and in those instructions an overseer or deacon are allowed to be married or have children.

So whats up with most Catholics following the man-made doctrine?

Both Jesus and Paul said that it is better not to marry.

There are married Catholic Priests.

It is not a matter of doctrine, it is a discipline.

The Latin rite does not allow priests to marry, but it has allowed some married men to become priests.

Other Catholic rites do allow priests to marry.

 

[JonNC]

Timothy Chapter 3 gives orders to those that are planning on overseeing the church body, and in those instructions an overseer or deacon are allowed to be married or have children.

So whats up with most Catholics following the man-made doctrine?

I think apologist78 did an excellent job of debunking the “man-made” stuff. But I wanted to mention the practical side of priestly celibacy, though understand this is not a statement for it, but rather an understanding of it.
Simple. My dad was a Lutheran pastor. He was a good loving dad to us, but he was also the pastor of a fairly large, older parish.
Lots of elderly and sick to visit and commune on a regular basis, meetings and classes of all sorts, emergencies in the night, you name it. The practicality is it is tough on a pastor to be a dad for his family and pastor to his church. From my own experience, (which I would not trade for anything, btw), I understand why, in a practical sense, Catholics call ther clergy “Father”, and the discipline is practiced.

Jon

 

[eucharisteo]

Then obviously you dont remember the seven sacraments (which according to catholic doctrine is the only way to heaven) In the seven sacraments you only choose marriage or holy orders. How many married priests have you met? In fact woman was created for man for them to be joined as one, so why can a woman(nun) not marry either. After all the first command given to us was be fruitful and multiply.

For Catholics the sacraments are the way to heaven. For non-Catholic [doesn’t include us] there they can be saved if they are genuinely practicing their beliefs to the best of their ability. But those churches also include authorities and therefore they are warned to obey. Salvation only comes through the Church of Christ…that church is also known as the Catholic Church…the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

Did you know that around 20% of Catholic priests are married with families. I passed by our local priest just a couple of hours ago trunk or treating. He’s married with grandchildren. He’s a convert from the Anglican church. Around 90% of Eastern Rite priests are in fact married. Deacons are allowed to be ordained as well. What you’re missing is the history and the teaching behind why. Celebacy is a discipline that could be released if the decision was ever made from the Vatican to do so. And you questions regarding married nun’s is just silly. It defeats the point of why the choose vocations to become sisters or nuns, or men to become brothers and maybe even priests.

Deacons receive holy orders. So it is very possible for a man to have received all 7 sacraments without a spouse dying. Full-time ministry is very time consuming. I have 2 brother-in-laws that are full-time ministers/preachers and overseers. My father-in-law was an overseer in the Church of Christ. I married his youngest daughter and became very anti-Catholic myself. Then I watched the Da Vinci Code and our church held a series on the Hoax of the Da Vinci Code. The minister said something that confused me becuase it went against something I learned when I was Catholic. But what stood out even more was that he was showing these old documents on the big overhead projector that large non-denominational churches are known for these days. He showed text after text of actual documents. That meant they were possibly available. I was part of a church restoration movement and I always said that if we had real documents from early church leaders we could show Catholics and Protestants that we were the real church established by Christ …

I Googled [ancient christian documents], which used to pop up a website as the first link with all kinds of ancient texts. The first document that I read in full was the Didache. I couldn’t believe it. It offered several options for a valid baptism. It spoke out strongly agains abortion. There were several things that sounded very Catholic/Orthodox. I then read Clement of Rome and Ignatius and discovered a very strong believe…insistence that said that those who do not believe in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist are heretics. It also clearly states the authority of the bishops. Next time you read those texts you cited…read the Greek. The word presbyter is used…that is a priest. A bishop is a deacon, a priest and also an episcopate. Diaconate. Presbytera, Episcopate. I researched these words to fully come to realize that I was grossly mislead by well intended evangelists…like my entire in-laws. I had no choice but to sit down and tell my wife I was going to return home to the Catholic Church where I belonged… Keep in mind that I realized that the woman I loved may not receive this news well and could possibly leave me…something that would have broken my heart. She said that she had been reading the Catechism of the Catholic Church for a while and read almost the entire thing. She talked to converts from her same faith that were able to clearly explain what they had learned and all of it checked out and made sense. I struggled with many issues. But in time, God’s grace worked in me as I participated in allowing the Holy Spirit to convert me and reveal to me truth. I read and read and read. I have so much information on the subject now that I could easily write a book now. But my wife still remains anonymous in her Catholicitiy as my entire family crossed the Tiber in 2007. Many strange things happened during that time. The only way that could have happened would be for God to open all of the doors that opened. It also includes our daughters healing and many other bazaar things happening all together at the same time, like clockwork. I don’t expect you to drop what you’re doing. But hopefully you will continue to seek truth…that will be the only thing that helps you come to the truth. You must set aside your selfish ways and pick up your cross and approach God with true humility. Then when you pride has been curbed you may begin to experience the kind of conversion I received. What a blessing it is. I’ve never seen my wife this happy before. She found peace finally after a life time of pain and misery in her previous faith. We have a son that is considering the priesthood. And I’m considering the diaconate. We’re submitting to God in obedience to Him.