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corsair
Guest
I agree with you, At Trent. These forums can generate an arguement even when all parties agree.
I think its something in the water.
I think its something in the water.
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Shin
Guest
LOL. Ahahaha.
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
Isnāt there an internet term that describes this behavior?
Oh and saints are not infallible and their opinions are not de fide.
When I get back from my next talk (at a Carmelite student gathering/conference) I will post a comment by a saint but unlike you I will properly attribute the quote as should be done.
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Shin
Guest
āEverything Christ did was done to keep us bound together and living at peace with one another. . . And so it was that Paul could have accused the Corinthians of many great crimes but he accused them of contentiousness before any other. He could have accused them of fornication, of pride, of taking their quarrels to the pagan courts, of banquets in the shrines of idols. He could have charged that the women did not veil their heads and that the men did. Over and above all this, he could have accused them of neglecting the poor, of the pride they took in their charismatic gifts, and in the matter of the resurrection of the body. But since, along with these, he could also find fault with them because of their dissensions and quarrels with one another, he passed over all the other crimes, and corrected their contentiousness first.ā
St. John Chrysostom
St. John Chrysostom
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Robert_Burns
Guest
Lighten up. Isnt there a term for being indignant over something such as this? And besides - I think I have proven my point about people who get indignant over things they should be happy their fellow Catholics are practising in honoring Almighty GOD and the Blessed Virgin Mary.
IMO - if someone prays in any manner approved by the Church then his or her fellow Catholics should rejoice over that fact alone.
Or perhaps I was poorly instructed by the good Sisters in my formative years.
Pax
Because there are some of us here (myself included) who arenāt really that keen on spending 15 minutes on the Rosary but have no trouble setting aside 15, 20 or 30 minutes on the Divine Office and 90 minutes on Mass. That does not make us any less Catholic or faithful than the rest of those who do have a devotion to the Rosary.I saw this thread right after you posted it Robert. I too started to mention the Mass being the highest prayer of HMC, but didnāt mention it because I knew it was simply a pro - Rosary thread. Why a few got riled as if you were presenting it as doctrine, I dunno lol.
Why anyone would want to argue or become defensive or offensive on a Rosary thread is beyond me. Anyhowā¦
Jesus through Mary ā¦ one of my first thoughts when I read the OP.
Regina coeli,
Ora pro nobis Deum
Queen of Heaven,
Pray for us to God
Iām just not a Rosary-man, but Iāll probably be buried with my Breviary.
St. Francis de Sales is a canonized saint, and Iād gladly disagree with him on this one.
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At_Trent
Guest
My point was, some are defensive, but I never heard a shot fired. Who on this thread questioned your faith ? If opinions are not ok here, the forum should be closed or be renamed āflame awayā.
What exactly is your concern over a Catholic recommending the Rosary ?
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
āā¦whereas the Eucharist is, as it were, the consummation of the spiritual life, and the end of all the sacramentsā¦ā (St Thomas Aquinas, ST III. 73, art.3)
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At_Trent
Guest
āBy linking our prayer through Mary to our adoration of Jesus in the most Blessed Sacrament, we have been given a new and spiritually rich avenue to Christ through His Mother.ā
H.E. Cardinal Roger Mahony
Oh, nothing at all.
I think the objections deal mainly with the assertion that the Rosary tops all prayers, which really, I think it doesnāt. The Divine Office, and this is just my opinion, outranks the Rosary in importance.
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At_Trent
Guest
Cor 13:2
And if I should have prophecy and should know all mysteries, and all knowledge, and if I should have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
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At_Trent
Guest
Can we agree Our Lady is honored in most all great prayers ?
Mother of Christ, hear thou thy peopleās cry
Star of the deep and Portal of the sky!
Mother of Him who thee made from nothing made.
Sinking we strive and call to thee for aid:
O, by what joy which Gabriel brought to thee,
Thou Virgin first and last, let us thy mercy see.
V. After childbirth thou didst remain a virgin.
R. Intercede for us, O Mother of God.
Let us pray
O God, who, by the fruitful virginity of blessed Mary, hast bestowed upon mankind the reward of eternal salvation: grant, we beseech thee, that we may experience her intercession, through whom we have been made worthy to receive the author of life, Our Lord Jesus Christ thy son. Amen.
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JReducation
Guest
The Theology of Prayer is not as simple as saying that one form is more important than another form. In fact, there is no such language in the Theology of Prayer. The great Doctors on the matter and Canon Law classify prayer into categories that have nothing to do with importance, but with essence.
Liturgical Prayer is essential to the life of the Church. Therefore, it is public prayer and official prayer. The highest ranking forms of liturgical prayer are the Mass and the Liturgy of the Hours. They belong together. You canāt separate them.
There are other forms of liturgical prayer that do not rank as high, but are liturgical, nonetheless, such as the rite of baptism outside of mass, etc. However, thatās a discussion for the Liturgy Forum.
The Rosary falls into another classification. That classification is private prayer that is non-liturgical. In other words, it is not essential for the liturgical life of the Church.
Saying that it is not essential to the life of the Church does not take away from the power of the Rosary. The Rosary is the most powerful private prayer available to us. Itās power is rooted in the power of the Blessed Virgin to intercede for us and to protect us.
If prayed properly, the Rosary opens the doorway for God to speak to us. St. Catherine of Siena, in her āTreatise on Prayerā, tells us that vocal prayer (which the Rosary is one of them) is only good if one allows God to speak, otherwise, it becomes a task to be completed so that we can move on to the next activity.
My own experience with the Holy Rosary has been very powerful. I have experienced that the Blessed Mother had walked me down the path to Jesus as she walked the child Jesus when he was a toddler, holding my hands one-step at a time. There are times when I pray the Rosary straight through and there are times when something enters my mind right in the middle of a Hail Mary or between two mysteries, etc. I have found that when I stop to pay attention, even to what may be a distraction; I can speak to God about it and actually find that he has something to say. Iām not hallucinating at these times. Iām not hearing voices or seeing things. This all happens in my head, obviously. Nevertheless, as Catherine teaches us, vocal prayer is the first step toward the spiritual nuptials. There are many steps between vocal prayer and union. Iām not sure that there is one specific order through which the soul journeys to prayer of union; however, we do know, that we must begin with vocal prayer and let God lead the way.
Personally, I have always liked the simple statement that Mary makes to the waiters at Cana. āDo whatever he tells you.ā In the Protestant understanding, Mary was accelerating the events. However, I donāt believe so. Jesus did not have to change water into wine, if she truly was interfering with the plan of the Father. The fact that he did change the water into wine, tells us that the Father already anticipated what she did and that the miracle was already in the Fatherās plan. This takes me back to Catherine of Sienaās āTreatise on Prayerā in The Dialogue.
If we pray the Rosary, with openness to whatever He tells us, then we are using it correctly. If itās just a pious task, then, as Catherine tells us, itās useless. The Holy Rosary opens the door for Christ to speak to us, just as the shortage of wine at the wedding opened the door for Christ to begin his public ministry. In both situations, Mary encourages us to do whatever He tells us and intercedes before Jesus to come to the aid of his brothers and sisters. The proper way to pray the Rosary is with openness to the voice of God.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
Oh absolutely. Donāt get me wrong, I think itās a grave mistake for anyone to dislike the Holy Rosary or to not pray it given its long acceptance by the Church and its power. Iām just of the mind that it should not be placed above higher forms of prayer.Can we agree Our Lady is honored in most all great prayers ?
Mother of Christ, hear thou thy peopleās cry
Star of the deep and Portal of the sky!
Mother of Him who thee made from nothing made.
Sinking we strive and call to thee for aid:
O, by what joy which Gabriel brought to thee,
Thou Virgin first and last, let us thy mercy see.
V. After childbirth thou didst remain a virgin.
R. Intercede for us, O Mother of God.
Let us pray
O God, who, by the fruitful virginity of blessed Mary, hast bestowed upon mankind the reward of eternal salvation: grant, we beseech thee, that we may experience her intercession, through whom we have been made worthy to receive the author of life, Our Lord Jesus Christ thy son. Amen.
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PKinsale
Guest
I donāt know whether one wants to compare the Rosary to the Mass or the Liturgy of the Hours, but I am saddened that there are some good Catholics on these boards that proclaim they have no use for the Rosary. Its historical roots, its beautiful meditations on the life of Our Lord, its basic prayers are all worthy of commendation. It should be a part of every Catholicās spiritual life.
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Shin
Guest
āThe word Rosary means āCrown of Rosesā that is to say that every time people say the Rosary devoutly they place a crown of one hundred and fifty-three red roses and sixteen white roses upon the heads of Jesus and Mary. Being heavenly flowers these roses will never fade or lose their exquisite beauty.ā
St. Louis Marie de Montfort
St. Louis Marie de Montfort
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JReducation
Guest
With all due respect to St. Louis de Montfort, I prefer St. Catherine of Sienaās explanation of vocal prayer, such as the rosary. Itās much more theological. St. Louieās statement is more allegory/metaphor as beautiful as it is. Catherine cuts to the heart of the matter. Vocal prayer is the beginning of a dialogue between the soul and God.
Since the Rosary is vocal prayer, it opens the door for that dialogue between the soul and God, but thatās only the beginning . . . provided one continues to pray.
The Rosary opens the mind and heart to the mysteries of Christās life in time and in the soul, simultaneously. In time, because itās a meditation on finite events in the life of Christ and his mother. In the soul, because through recollection (Francisco de Osuna) of the mysteries of Christās life, the soul is drawn into the dialogue (Catherine of Siena), which leads to the eventual mystical union (Teresa of Avila).
Again, no disrespect to St. Louie.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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archlight
Guest
I love to pray the rosary and thereās no problem for me praying it, but to be honest there are times that my mind goes somewhere in the middle of praying itā¦ lost in concentration.
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JReducation
Guest
I find that when my mind travels, I like to follow. Usually, there is something that I can speak to the Lord about and he has something to say. I just keep my fingers on the rosary, so as not to lose my place. When Iām back, I continue. It takes about an hour to pray the rosary, this way; but, itās a beautiful hour. I learned this from studying Catherine of Sienaās writings on this issue.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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Ultima_Ratio
Guest
An important point regarding the recitation of the Rosary is that, according to Sr. Lucy of Fatima, God has given a special efficacy to it in our day. The following is what St. Lucy said in a 1957 interview with Father Fuentes:
Sister Lucy of Fatima: "Look, Father, the Most Holy Virgin in these last times in which we live has given a new efficacy to the recitation of the Rosary to such an extent that there is no problem, no matter how difficult it is, whether temporal or above all, spiritual, in the personal life of each one of us, of our families, of the families of the world, or of the religious communities, or even of the life of peoples and nations, that cannot be solved by the Rosary. There is no problem I tell you, no matter how difficult it is, that we cannot resolve by the prayer of the Holy Rosary. With the Holy Rosary, we will save ourselves. We will sanctify ourselves. We will console Our Lord and obtain the salvation of many souls." (Interview with Fr. Fuentes, December 26, 1957)
In the crisis that we are living through today, we need all the help we can get to save our souls. According to Sr. Lucy, God has given a new efficacy to the recitation of the Rosary in order to help in those of us who live in these extraordinary times. If we are wise we will take advantage of it.
Sister Lucy of Fatima: "Look, Father, the Most Holy Virgin in these last times in which we live has given a new efficacy to the recitation of the Rosary to such an extent that there is no problem, no matter how difficult it is, whether temporal or above all, spiritual, in the personal life of each one of us, of our families, of the families of the world, or of the religious communities, or even of the life of peoples and nations, that cannot be solved by the Rosary. There is no problem I tell you, no matter how difficult it is, that we cannot resolve by the prayer of the Holy Rosary. With the Holy Rosary, we will save ourselves. We will sanctify ourselves. We will console Our Lord and obtain the salvation of many souls." (Interview with Fr. Fuentes, December 26, 1957)
In the crisis that we are living through today, we need all the help we can get to save our souls. According to Sr. Lucy, God has given a new efficacy to the recitation of the Rosary in order to help in those of us who live in these extraordinary times. If we are wise we will take advantage of it.
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