The Holy See and the Bible

[White_Peony]

I heard from a former Catholic that she read in the front of her Catholic Bible that it said “The Holy See could add or take away from this book.” I asked her if the that introduction had an impratur (or however you spell it) on it. She didn’t know what that was so I explained it to her. She said yes but I’m thinking if she had to ask she wouldn’t have checked so maybe it didn’t.

Can the Pope really add or take away from Sacred Scripture? It says in Revelation 22:18-19,
18 "For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 “and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.”

 

[neophyte]

I heard from a former Catholic that she read in the front of her Catholic Bible that it said “The Holy See could add or take away from this book.” I asked her if the that introduction had an impratur (or however you spell it) on it. She didn’t know what that was so I explained it to her. She said yes but I’m thinking if she had to ask she wouldn’t have checked so maybe it didn’t.

Can the Pope really add or take away from Sacred Scripture? It says in Revelation 22:18-19,
18 "For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 “and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.”

No, the Canon is closed. I suspect that she misread what was actually written. Ask her to show it to you.

BTW, in that quote from Revelation, “this book” refers to Revelation itself. Remember, the Bible isn’t a book, it’s a collection of books and letters.

 

[Joe_5859]

Yes, it’s always difficult to adequately respond to what someone thinks they remember seeing some where at some time. The context is very important. I cannot imagine any Catholic Bible have such a disclaimer up front. It must be regarding something specific, not the canon of Scripture itself.

 

[Todd_Easton]

None of the original autograph copies of the Bible exist any longer, only man-made copies of copies, and copyists often make errors, adding to or removing things from the texts they copy. The Holy See has a right to determine Bible copyists errors and to remove the additions made by copyists to the originals and to return what copyists have removed from the originals, to provide a version of the Bible that is free of copyist errors and closest to the originals as possible. It is perhaps this right of the Holy See your friend read about.

For instance, the words “For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen,” that appeared at the end of the Lord’s Prayer in Matthew 6:13 in some copies of the Bible were determined by the Holy See to be a copyist addition made to the original about 400 A.D. and consequently are no longer included in Catholic Bibles.

 

[promethius]

I heard from a former Catholic that she read in the front of her Catholic Bible that it said “The Holy See could add or take away from this book.” I asked her if the that introduction had an impratur (or however you spell it) on it. She didn’t know what that was so I explained it to her. She said yes but I’m thinking if she had to ask she wouldn’t have checked so maybe it didn’t.

Ask her what the morality of lying is, even if it’s towards what she thinks is a good result. Does the commandment say “thou shalt not lie unless it’s for a good cause” or does it say “thou shalt not lie”.

No such text would have that statement in it, and if it did, it would not have a imprimateur. And if it DID have an imprimateur, she would have known this (ie, she can’t just remember back to whether or not it had an imprimateur)

Can the Pope really add or take away from Sacred Scripture? It says in Revelation 22:18-19,
18 "For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 “and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.”

The reason the pope cannot add or take away from scripture is not because of Revelation or any other scriptural instruction, but rather because the church, acting in the authority given to it by God, declared the canon of the new testament closed.

 

[CalCatholic]

Let your friend know that the Catechism of the Catholic Church states in section 86; ‘Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God, but its servant. It teaches only what has been handed on to it.’

 

[TimothyH]

Maybe she was engaged in her own personal intepretation of the Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation?

Or maybe she thought the Holy See added Dei Verbum as a book before Genesis.

-Tim-

 

[Petergee]

The reason the pope cannot add or take away from scripture is not because of Revelation or any other scriptural instruction, but rather because the church, acting in the authority given to it by God, declared the canon of the new testament closed.

Or to be more precise, a pope (in fact several popes, ratifying what had been said by several Councils of bishops), acting in the authority given to him by God, declared the canon of the Old and New Testaments closed.

So it is more correct to say that the crurrent or a future pope **will not ** add or take away from scripture, not that he can not. Logic tells us that one infallible declaration of doctrine cannot contradict another infallible declaration.

The former Catholic (who apparently never knew much about Catholicism) should also be informed that what we know today as the list of the books of scripture, began as simply a list of books which the Church had approved to be read from during the Mass and other liturgies. It was only in the late 4th century when a dispute arose, especially from the anti-semitic Marcionist heretics who wanted to remove the Old Testament and all “Jewish” parts of the New testament, that the pope (Damasus) first procalimed a standard list of books.

To this day, some Eastern Catholic churches retain a couple of additional books. The eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox and Ethiopian orthodox churches have several more (varying from church to church) in addition to those in the Bible used by Catholics.

Protestants in fact who affirm that the books of “their” New Testament and no others are canonical, are merely following the decision of Pope Damasus (and of the Council of Trent in the 16th century which reaffirmed the same list of books, countering Luther’s attempt to remove the Letter of James and several other books from his version of the New Testament.)

 

[puzzleannie]

I heard from a former Catholic that she read in the front of her Catholic Bible that it said “The Holy See could add or take away from this book.” I

did she show you the bible that reportedly printed this? no? then it did not happen
if she wants to make a claim and start a debate it is up to her to provide proof

the word is “imprimatur”

 

[Petergee]

Let your friend know that the Catechism of the Catholic Church states in section 86; ‘Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God, but its servant. It teaches only what has been handed on to it.’

True, but that would be dishonestly misleading if she thinks that Catholcis have the same extremely narrow definition of “the Word of God” that fundamentalist protestants have, i.e. the written words of the Bible only. In fact that “word of God” is a subsidiary one derived from the Word who is a Person.

 

[jcrichton]

I heard from a former Catholic that she read in the front of her Catholic Bible that it said “The Holy See could add or take away from this book.” I asked her if the that introduction had an impratur (or however you spell it) on it. She didn’t know what that was so I explained it to her. She said yes but I’m thinking if she had to ask she wouldn’t have checked so maybe it didn’t.

Can the Pope really add or take away from Sacred Scripture? It says in Revelation 22:18-19,
18 "For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 “and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.”

…wow… that’s up there with ‘if the Vatican would sell all its valuables they could feed the needy’ and ‘all that money is going to the Pope…’

It is irrational to think that a Bible would have a clause printed on it to allow the Pope to re-invent the wheel.

Do there exist a number of Biblical versions? Yes. There has been changes made to the language (some really useless such as the “inclusive” language practice); for the most part it has been in a sincere effort to make the Sacred Writings more accessible to a larger number of people… ever read any literary work where the original language is old English? …that’s the basic premise of most of these changes. However, the context must remain unchanged!

…just as with any Mathematical equation, Scripture prooves Scriptures… ie: “…in the beginning was the Word…” this passage must always point to the Word being Christ and Christ being God–anything that changes that is not true to the original revelation!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Maybe she was engaged in her own personal intepretation of the Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation?

Or maybe she thought the Holy See added Dei Verbum as a book before Genesis.

-Tim-

…got me Tim, Dei Verbum is very confusing!

Maran atha!

Angel