The Holy Spirit has no authority?

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BrianKH

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I need some help understanding the meaning of last week’s Gospel reading. The Holy Spirit is God, so why would he not speak on his own authority? And why would he speak only what he hears? I know that the Trinity is a profound mystery, but this particular verse confounds me.

John 16:13-15
13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. 14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. 15 All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.
 
This is the same thing which Christ said about himself, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me’” (John 8:28).

This actually expresses the Trinity because it means that God the Son and God the Holy Spirit do not have a separate authority from the authority that God the Father has. Their authority is one because they are one God.

It also establishes the order of processions in the Persons of the Trinity: the Father begets, the Son is begotten, and the Holy Spirit proceeds from both. Thus, we can say that the Son receives authority from the Father and the Holy Spirit receives authority from the Father and the Son, but this “reception” is an eternal one and does not imply that they are not co-eternal or co-equal.
 
BrianKH said:
The Holy Spirit is God, so why would he not speak on his own authority? And why would he speak only what he hears?
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The Holy Spirit or Angels do what is commanded to them by GodAllahYHWH, it cannot say or do anything unless commanded by GodAllahYHWH. This is what I believe, no compulsion to others.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.
GodAllahYHWH is All-Knowing; one should invariably give Claim and Reason on all important issues from one’s Revealed Book; one shouldn’t try putting one’s own words into God’s mouth.
 
paarsurrey said:
The Holy Spirit or Angels do what is commanded to them by GodAllahYHWH, it cannot say or do anything unless commanded by GodAllahYHWH. This is what I believe, no compulsion to others.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.
GodAllahYHWH is All-Knowing; one should invariably give Claim and Reason on all important issues from one’s Revealed Book; one shouldn’t try putting one’s own words into God’s mouth.
Click to expand...
Hi there I am interested in how could you say that “the Holy Spirit OR are angels”, when we all know that Angels are messengers of God but NOT God. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God NOT another identity such as a created servent of God which angels are. As you mentioned I ask this in wishing to understand your understanding please.

God, YHWH bless you
littleone
 
littleone said:
The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God NOT another identity such as a created servent of God which angels are. As you mentioned I ask this in wishing to understand your understanding please.
God, YHWH bless you
littleone
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Hi
I think it is easy to understand. GodAllahYHWH is the Creator of all things except Him, so all other beings whether spirits or non-spirits are just one of his Createds.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.
GodAllahYHWH is All-Knowing; one should invariably give Claim and Reason on all important issues from one’s Revealed Book; one shouldn’t try putting one’s own words into God’s mouth.
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi
I think it is easy to understand. GodAllahYHWH is the Creator of all things except Him, so all other beings whether spirits or non-spirits are just one of his Createds.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.
GodAllahYHWH is All-Knowing; one should invariably give Claim and Reason on all important issues from one’s Revealed Book; one shouldn’t try putting one’s own words into God’s mouth.
Click to expand...
The Holy Spirit was not created by God. The Holy Spirit IS God along with the Father and Son the three are ONE!
 
BrianKH said:
I need some help understanding the meaning of last week’s Gospel reading. The Holy Spirit is God, so why would he not speak on his own authority? And why would he speak only what he hears? I know that the Trinity is a profound mystery, but this particular verse confounds me.

John 16:13-15
13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. 14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. 15 All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.
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The HOlySpirit is the authority of God why … because He is the Spirit of God. Is God not spirit yes He is there fore the spirit of God is that authority it is “truth” no other authority is “TRUTH” only God
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi
I think it is easy to understand. GodAllahYHWH is the Creator of all things except Him, so all other beings whether spirits or non-spirits are just one of his Createds.
Thanks
I.
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I would ask o these questions then “If God YHWH made us to His likeness then is it in spirit or flesh”?
If it were in the flesh then we would all look alike do you not agree?
Ok then does God come to us at our height or is is it at His height?

God bless
 
littleone said:
I would ask o these questions then “If God YHWH made us to His likeness then is it in spirit or flesh”?
If it were in the flesh then we would all look alike do you not agree?
Ok then does God come to us at our height or is is it at His height?
God bless
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Hi
GodAllahYHWH is the Creator of everthing, including flesh and spirit, what we have somewhat likeness with GodAllahYHWH is in the attributes. GodAllahYHWH is kind, so good persons are also kind, this is likeness with God, those who are cruel or wicked have likeness with Devil. If we acquire good attributes then we are from GodAllahYHWH, if we acquire bad attributes then obviously one is from the devil. I understand like this, and it is reasonable.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.
GodAllahYHWH is All-Knowing; one should invariably give Claim and Reason on all important issues from one’s Revealed Book; one shouldn’t try putting one’s own words into God’s mouth.
 
This passage is about the obedience and unity of the Holy Spirit with the Father and the Son. Like the Son, the Holy Spirit is love and hence is obedient. Though both are God and both have all authority to speak, they only speak what the Father tells them to speak.

We are all made in the image of God, and we bear that image both in soul and flesh. God made us that way. We clouded that likeness in the Fall. But when the Son became incarnated, true God and true man with both human flesh and human soul – and we were baptized into the life of Jesus – we became even more God-like in our bodies and souls. The more holy and Christlike we try to become, the more we become mirrors of God’s image.
 
Read Acts 13, The Holy Spirit does have authority. Set apart … for the work, I have called them.

In I cor 12, the Holy Spirit gives spiritual gifts as he wills.

But, at the same time there is simply Rank like in the military in the godhead, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

As I recall, the Father sent both the Son and Holy Spirit and Jesus Sent the Holy Spirit also. Having Rank in relations does not make, one less God, divine than the others. They are three persons with rank, but are all by nature God.
 
BrianKH said:
I need some help understanding the meaning of last week’s Gospel reading. The Holy Spirit is God, so why would he not speak on his own authority? And why would he speak only what he hears? John 16:13-15
13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.

Hi
There is some misunderstanding here. We Muslims believe that the above quote from John 16:13-15, is a prophecy of JesusYeshuaIssa fullfilled in the form of Muhammad, as his revelation was verbatum Word of GodAllahYHWH and not from his own self. This Word is secure and protected in the original text Arabic language. JesusYeshuaIssa prophesized and GodAllahYHWH is a witness to it. This is according to what we Muslims believe. My Christian friends are under no compulsion to believe it, unless they are conviced at heart.
Thanks
Please don’t mind. This is just for comparison to bridge gaps between Christians and Muslims for peace and unity.

You might like to read
alislam.org/books/
Introduction to the Study of The Holy Quran (English)
The Official Website of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community
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paarsurrey said:
The Holy Spirit or Angels do what is commanded to them by GodAllahYHWH, it cannot say or do anything unless commanded by GodAllahYHWH. This is what I believe, no compulsion to others.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.
GodAllahYHWH is All-Knowing; one should invariably give Claim and Reason on all important issues from one’s Revealed Book; one shouldn’t try putting one’s own words into God’s mouth.
Click to expand...
Well, paars, your opinion will not be of much help in answering anyones questions around here, since you have already established yourself on these threads to have little or no understanding of Christianity in general, and are possessed of many seriously erroneous thoughts, one of which you state here. The Holy Spirit is not an “it”. He is a person, and He is God. Angels have free will, and can rebel against God if they so choose.
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi
GodAllahYHWH is the Creator of everthing, including flesh and spirit, what we have somewhat likeness with GodAllahYHWH is in the attributes. GodAllahYHWH is kind, so good persons are also kind, this is likeness with God, those who are cruel or wicked have likeness with Devil. If we acquire good attributes then we are from GodAllahYHWH, if we acquire bad attributes then obviously one is from the devil. I understand like this, and it is reasonable.
Thanks
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.
GodAllahYHWH is All-Knowing; one should invariably give Claim and Reason on all important issues from one’s Revealed Book; one shouldn’t try putting one’s own words into God’s mouth.
Click to expand...
Hi! So you say that I can do good and therefore I am likened to God. That means that I don’t have to believe in God I can do good and thats all I have to do.

Well Jesus tells us tha it is NOT by our good deeds alone, that gets us to heaven. It is in Faith in God and that Faith is a gift from God that grows in us through our using the gift. The response to Faith is the good deeds. Jesus also tells us that “if it were through our good deeds that we are justified then we would become rightsious through our own doing”. Jesus then goes on to say that Abraham was justified through his faith and in his faith he obeyed (acted in faith) God in going forward to take the life of his son.

Obedience to God is the importaint act, not one of offering. Abraham acted in obedience. Had he said that he wouldn’t take his son but would take the sheep then he would not have been justified. A person acting in goodness might have taken a sheep and offered that.

The Holy Spirit
When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
The reason why the Holy Spirit does not come in His own words is because the voice must have a home ( a mouth to speak through) the home is in the pressence of YHWH the Father who is was and is to be. You and I have no ability to speak by our self no, the bodily mouth must be there, and through the mouth comes the word.
I am a catholic a christian. In love for Jesus Christ the Father YHWH and the Holy Spirit I will offer the truth to those who wish to share and hear. No one is bound to accept but the Holy Spirit will send the truth.
God bless
littleone
 
To littleone,
I’m glad that I found you again, right in this specail subject.
I love the Holy Spirit, my Comfortor. And I agree with most of what you write, but of coarse, I want to say it all in my own way, so you all can raz me! I am a Charismatic Catholic around 50. I thought that I knew all about my religion, until I began seriously reading the Bible about 5 yrs. ago. THe Bible, along with other things, led me to my 1st Charismatic Prayer meeting. And it wasnt long after that, I became holier. And I seem to want to make everyone around me holy also. I know the Holy Spirit as The One to call on in an emergency. Such as; Dear God, Please send your Holy Spirit to save those poor souls. Wrap your Holy Wings around my child today. Night-time prayers and so-on.
Since I have been awakened, thru the Charismatic movement, I know that the Holy Spirit has many spiritual gifts to give to use towards bringing others to God’s Love. I will help my family first. The Spirit of Truth comes, and I want to be ready. Sincerely, Franny

BrianKH
I would like to contribute a little better to your origional question. Tomorow, I will read over those St. John chapters again and email you back. St. John Is my favorite Bible author! Great question for diologue!
 
franny33 said:
To littleone,
I’m glad that I found you again, right in this specail subject.
I love the Holy Spirit, my Comfortor. And I agree with most of what you write, but of coarse, I want to say it all in my own way, so you all can raz me! I am a Charismatic Catholic around 50. I thought that I knew all about my religion, until I began seriously reading the Bible about 5 yrs. ago. THe Bible, along with other things, led me to my 1st Charismatic Prayer meeting. And it wasnt long after that, I became holier. And I seem to want to make everyone around me holy also. I know the Holy Spirit as The One to call on in an emergency. Such as; Dear God, Please send your Holy Spirit to save those poor souls. Wrap your Holy Wings around my child today. Night-time prayers and so-on.
Since I have been awakened, thru the Charismatic movement, I know that the Holy Spirit has many spiritual gifts to give to use towards bringing others to God’s Love. I will help my family first. The Spirit of Truth comes, and I want to be ready. Sincerely, Franny

BrianKH
I would like to contribute a little better to your origional question. Tomorow, I will read over those St. John chapters again and email you back. St. John Is my favorite Bible author! Great question for diologue!
Click to expand...
God bless you for your accepting Jesus and the Holy Spirit as Jesus accepted Him in all things. We are called to be like the Trinity of Love, Father Son and the Hold Spirit. I have nothing that is worth anything t God if I cannot let go of all I have therefore I have nothing better than to say "I offer myself as a holicast of love for Your doing Lord Jesus.Realy I can only say that that means that God can and will do with me all and everything He wishes to do with me.
There is nothing else to offer Idon’t think
God bless
little one.
 
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