The Holy Spirit, Salvation, and Old Testament saints

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Did the Old Testament saints have an indwelling of the Holy Spirit like Christians in the New Testament? Were they justified in anticipation of the Cross of Jesus Christ?

God Bless,
Michael
 
Hi Michael,

As humans we tend to think in terms of “before” and “after”, but to God everything is in the present.

When we say that, before Jesus died on the cross, the deceased were “waiting” to be delivered, we are speaking humanly, which does not mean incorrrectly. But to God, these people, if they had lived correctly, were not in any kind of “transitional” salvation. They were with God and enjoying Him face to face. When we read the story of Lazarus and the “bosom of Abraham”, we get no inkling that things were otherwise.

They were, of course, saved in anticipation of the merits of Jesus Christ, just like Our Lady was free from original sin in the same way.

Verbum
 
So they had an indwellind of the Spirit?

Thanks and God Bless,
Michael
 
Verbum said:
Hi Michael,

As humans we tend to think in terms of “before” and “after”, but to God everything is in the present.

When we say that, before Jesus died on the cross, the deceased were “waiting” to be delivered, we are speaking humanly, which does not mean incorrrectly. But to God, these people, if they had lived correctly, were not in any kind of “transitional” salvation. They were with God and enjoying Him face to face. When we read the story of Lazarus and the “bosom of Abraham”, we get no inkling that things were otherwise.

They were, of course, saved in anticipation of the merits of Jesus Christ, just like Our Lady was free from original sin in the same way.

Verbum
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Why did Jesus descend into the dead if the righteous were already experiencing this Beatific Vision?
 
Hi Franciscan,

Why did Jesus descend into the dead if the righteous were already experiencing this Beatific Vision?

As explained, this is talking to us in our human fashion, as if time existed for God as it does for us. It is easier for us to understand the mysteries of God this way and to relate them to our own experience. It is the translation of divine trurhs into human language. When I translate a French letter into English , I am not saying that one is more valid than the other. I am just expressing the same thought in different ways.

The Bible is full of this. For example, when Genesis says that God “shaped” Adam from clay and “breathed” into him, you cannot take this literally, because God has no hands and no breath. It is an easy way for us to understand that God has made us and given us life.

Verbum
 
Verbum said:
Hi Franciscan,

Why did Jesus descend into the dead if the righteous were already experiencing this Beatific Vision?

As explained, this is talking to us in our human fashion, as if time existed for God as it does for us. It is easier for us to understand the mysteries of God this way and to relate them to our own experience. It is the translation of divine trurhs into human language. When I translate a French letter into English , I am not saying that one is more valid than the other. I am just expressing the same thought in different ways.

The Bible is full of this. For example, when Genesis says that God “shaped” Adam from clay and “breathed” into him, you cannot take this literally, because God has no hands and no breath. It is an easy way for us to understand that God has made us and given us life.

Verbum
Click to expand...
I understand the timeless concept but that still doesn’t answer the question of why Jesus descended.
Also in the C.C.C #'s 632-635 it says…

“But he descended there as Savior, proclaiming the Good News to the spirits imprisoned there”. CCC 632

"Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of Lazarus who was recieved into ‘Abraham’s bosom’…These holy souls awaited their savior in ‘Abraham’s bosom’ " CCC 633.

Do you see the discrepency between your statement and the CCC?
How do you account for it?

Thanks.
 
Hi Franciscan,

I don’t see any discrepancy. The same explanation is still valid. My original answer was to explain that, once we are in eternity, there is no “waiting”. This is more of a philosophical question than a theological one, and when you get right down to it, not very important to our faith.

Verbum
 
I feel it is very important that we do not try to fit God into our human way of thinking. God is not bound by our understanding. I believe that Christ is God, the universal God of all time and place. There is no period in history where Christ’s redeeming work does not reach.

The Bible is God’s revelation to us, but God is greater than human language, and on this side of eternity we cannot see Him in His fulllness. We are confined to this period in time and in one place at a time. The God who created space and time is not so limited.

Tu Amigo, Pablo
 
Numbers 27:18 (King James Version)
And the LORD said unto Moses, Take thee Joshua the son of Nun, a man in whom is the spirit, and lay thine hand upon him;

biblegateway.com/

Do seperate searches on spirit Lord and spirit God

You will see that people were both indwelt and poured upon by the Holy Spirit.
 
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