The Holy Spirit

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I seek to better understand that the Holy Spirit is a person distinct from the Father and the Son. To illustrate my question, the Father is a spiritual person of the Trinity so it would seem that He could be considered to be a holy Spirit.

John 4:24
usccb.org/nab/bible/john/john4.htm
 
Coder said:
I seek to better understand that the Holy Spirit is a person distinct from the Father and the Son. To illustrate my question, the Father is a spiritual person of the Trinity so it would seem that He could be considered to be a holy Spirit.

John 4:24
usccb.org/nab/bible/john/john4.htm
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Look at
a) the Baptism in Jesus - we see the Father (a voice from the heaven), the Son (Jesus coming up out of the water) and the Holy Spirit (descending upon Jesus like a dove).

b) The Transfiguration - We see the Father (a voice from the heaven), the Son (Jesus in clothes as white as snow), and the Holy Spirit (the Glory Cloud).

c) the words of Jesus in John 15:26 - "When the Advocate* comes whom I** will send you from the Father* (and again)**, the Spirit of truth that proceeds from the Father, he will testify to me.
 
Coder said:
I seek to better understand that the Holy Spirit is a person distinct from the Father and the Son. To illustrate my question, the Father is a spiritual person of the Trinity so it would seem that He could be considered to be a holy Spirit.

John 4:24
usccb.org/nab/bible/john/john4.htm
Click to expand...
Here is an excerpt from the Haydock Bible Commentary

Ver. 23. Now is the time approaching, when the true adorers shall adore the Father in spirit and in truth, without being confined to any one temple or place; and chiefly in spirit, without such a multitude of sacrifices and ceremonies as even the Jews now practise. Such adorers God himself (who is a pure spirit) desires, which they shall be taught by the Messias. (Witham) — Our Lord foretells her that sacrifices in both these temples should shortly cease, giving her these three instructions: 1. That the true sacrifice should be limited no longer to one spot or nation, but should be offered throughout all nations, according to that of Malachias; (i. 11.) 2. That the gross and carnal adoration by the flesh and blood of beasts, not having in them grace, spirit, and life, should be taken away, and another sacrifice succeed, which should be in itself invisible, divine, and full of life, spirit, and grace; 3. That this sacrifice should be truth itself, whereof all former sacrifices were but shadows and figures. He calleth here spirit and truth that which, in the first chapter, (ver. 17) is called grace and truth. Now this is not more than a prophecy and description of the sacrifice of the faithful Gentiles in the body and blood of Christ; for all the adoration of the Catholic Church is properly spiritual, though certain external objects be joined thereto, on account of the state of our nature, which requireth it. Be careful then not to gather from Christ’s words that Christian men should have no use of external signs and offices towards God; for that would take away all sacrifice, sacraments, prayers, churches and societies. &c. &c. (Bristow)

Here is John 4:24 from the Douay-Rheims. The NAB really lacks on this verse

24 God is a spirit; and they that adore him, must adore him in spirit and in truth.

Here is John 4:24 from the NAB

God is Spirit, and those who worship him must worship in Spirit and truth."

The keyword omitted from the NAB that is in the Douay-Rheims is “a”. He is considered Holy Spirit. In regards of the Trinity we must worship God the Father chiefly in spirit. He sends his only begotten son to speak his word and God the Son is worshipped in the spirit as well. The Holy Spirit is the giver of life, who proceeds the Father and the Son, He is worshipped and glorified and has spoken through the prophets. Christ sent the Holy Spirit upon the Apostles at Pentecost to proclaim and preach the Gospel and that Christ is the Son of God. One must ask in the NAB God is spirit of what?? The Douay-Rheims emphasizes that God is a Spirit. God is the Holy Spirit. God isn’t male of female. This is emphasized in the Catechism of the Catholic Church 370.

But overall God the Father is the Holy Spirit. By omitting the word “a” the NAB poses more questions than it answers.
 
Also, we see the Trinity pre-figured in the Old Testament.

Where?
  • Abraham, the Father who gives up his only begotten son is God the Father.
  • Isaac, the son who willingly carries the wood up Mt. Moriah to be sacrificed is Jesus.
  • Rebekkah, the bride of Isaac is the Church, the Bride of Christ.
And the Holy Spirit?
  • The unnamed servant who goes to get the bride and bring her to the Son, is the Holy Spirit.
 
NotWorthy said:
Also, we see the Trinity pre-figured in the Old Testament.

Where?
  • Abraham, the Father who gives up his only begotten son is God the Father.
  • Isaac, the son who willingly carries the wood up Mt. Moriah to be sacrificed is Jesus.
  • Rebekkah, the bride of Isaac is the Church, the Bride of Christ.
And the Holy Spirit?
  • The unnamed servant who goes to get the bride and bring her to the Son, is the Holy Spirit.
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excellent reference from the OT
 
tobinatorstark said:
excellent reference from the OT
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Thanks!

Typology simply blows me away! And that one simply knocked my socks off. Especially when it was pointed out that neither the Holy Spirit or the servant of Abraham are never referred to by name.
 
tobinatorstark said:
The Holy Spirit is the giver of life, who proceeds the Father and the Son, He is worshipped and glorified and has spoken through the prophets. Christ sent the Holy Spirit upon the Apostles at Pentecost to proclaim and preach the Gospel and that Christ is the Son of God.
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What is meant by proceed? In the physical world proceed means to move from one place to another or to move forward with an activity.
 
Coder said:
What is meant by proceed? In the physical world proceed means to move from one place to another or to move forward with an activity.
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Just as the Father sent me, I send you. God the Father sent his only begotten son and the Son and Father sent the Holy Spirit. Just as it is with from one place to another, we worship the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. We worship each one after another. Think of the Trinity. Kinda like a time line from one even to another. One entity in the Trinity to another. This is also in the Nicene Crede
 
Coder said:
What is meant by proceed? In the physical world proceed means to move from one place to another or to move forward with an activity.
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The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. The verses in John 15 that I referenced above indicates that the Holy Spirit was sent by the Father and by the Son. It is rather ironic, is it not, that
a) the Holy Spirit is Sent? and
b) Apostles means “ones who are Sent”?

This is increasingly ironic when one considers that the Acts of the Apostles (the Sent Ones) is also called the “Gospel of the Holy Spirit” (the One Sent by the Father and the Son).
 
NotWorthy said:
The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. The verses in John 15 that I referenced above indicates that the Holy Spirit was sent by the Father and by the Son. It is rather ironic, is it not, that
a) the Holy Spirit is Sent? and
b) Apostles means “ones who are Sent”?

This is increasingly ironic when one considers that the Acts of the Apostles (the Sent Ones) is also called the “Gospel of the Holy Spirit” (the One Sent by the Father and the Son).
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that is another great way to put it. You are on a roll today
 
What does “proceed” and “send” mean? I think that the Father and the Son go with the Holy Spirit so I don’t think that “sent” means that He departs from them. Also I don’t think “sent” means instructed to go because the Holy Spirit has the mind of God so I think that whatever He does would be His decision as God rather than being instructed.

What is the name of the Holy Spirit in the original Hebrew that Jesus used? Perhaps this will provide insight.
 
Coder said:
What does “proceed” and “send” mean? I think that the Father and the Son go with the Holy Spirit so I don’t think that “sent” means that He departs from them. Also I don’t think “sent” means instructed to go because the Holy Spirit has the mind of God so I think that whatever He does would be His decision as God rather than being instructed.
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I think its a weak explanation of the Holy Spirit, but we can’t think of anything better to describe this mystery.

Our human minds want to say* the Holy Spirit is created by the Love between the Father and the Son*, but we all know that the Holy Spirit is not “created”, He is the Creator (as one of the three Persons of the Trinity).

The Holy Spirit is the manifestation of the Love that the Father has for the Son and the Son has for the Father. There. Does that make it clearer? 😉
 
NotWorthy said:
The Holy Spirit is the manifestation of the Love that the Father has for the Son and the Son has for the Father. There. Does that make it clearer?
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Hi I appreciate the posts. That does help in the sense that it brings out what is distinct about the Holy Spirit. I was familiar with many (if not all) of the scriptures and teachings presented and I still presented my OP. When Jesus referred to the Holy Spirit, He may have been using language that Jewish people would have insight to.
 
Coder said:
Hi I appreciate the posts. That does help in the sense that it brings out what is distinct about the Holy Spirit. I was familiar with many (if not all) of the scriptures and teachings presented and I still presented my OP. When Jesus referred to the Holy Spirit, He may have been using language that Jewish people would have insight to.
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That’s one of the things that has befuddled me.

I don’t know for sure, but it seems our Jewish friends had no clue what to make of the Holy Spirit, so they just remained silent on Him. I only state this as opinion, so feel free to show otherwise.

Another thing, tt always struck me as odd that, in John’s Gospel, Jesus would refer to the Holy Spirit as “Counselor” and “Advocate” - both legal terms. It wasn’t until I learned that all of John’s Gospel reads like a courtroom trial, with witnesses and testimonies on a Jesus’ behalf, that one of the roles of the Holy Spirit is to give Witness to Christ.

Which is what He does for us!
 
NotWorthy said:
…in John’s Gospel, Jesus would refer to the Holy Spirit as “Counselor” and “Advocate” - both legal terms. It wasn’t until I learned that all of John’s Gospel reads like a courtroom trial, with witnesses and testimonies on a Jesus’ behalf, that one of the roles of the Holy Spirit is to give Witness to Christ.
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That is interesting. Jesus also said that the Father testifies to Him.

John 5:37
usccb.org/nab/bible/john/john5.htm

So this along with other Scriptures indicate that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit act as one.
 
Coder said:
That is interesting. Jesus also said that the Father testifies to Him.

John 5:37
usccb.org/nab/bible/john/john5.htm

So this along with other Scriptures indicate that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit act as one.
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AMEN! They act as one because they are One!

Where ever the Father is, there also is the Son and the Holy Spirit. I think each One simply has a different role in our lives.
 
Are you trying to ask whether or not God is the Spirit? Then yes, He is the Son, the Father and the Spirit. Each three making up the one trinity. Each are God in different forms. If I just stated the obvious then I apologize.
 
Coder said:
I seek to understand what is distinct about the Holy Spirit because the Father and the Son are also spiritual persons.
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Well, what do you mean spiritual? Are you not a spiritual person? This does not mean you are a spirit. The Holy Spirit is the giver of life, He influences people to do right, like your conscience is the Holy Spirit speaking to you. When God speaks to us He does so in the form of the Holy Spirit. He will not appear to us in his form, or in our form (again), he appears in a form that we cannot physically see. But, God the Father is the creator who reigns in heaven, God the Son is human who came to us on this world, and God the Spirit is the one behind the scenes, like a ghost, or, a spirit.
 
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