The holy spirit's descent unto our lord

  • Thread starter Thread starter mark_avery
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

mark_avery

Guest
Considering the holy spirit was prevalent before the coming of our Lord,why would the holy spirit descend unto him?
My thought is that for he was son of man,a little lower than the Angels and also perfect.
possibly having to live out his life understanding all,first & last.
If there are any more specific reasons, I/we would be very thankful!!
 
Our Lord being an eternal member of the Blessed Trinity, the Holy Ghost had no reason to descend upon Him other than to show us the right path. Christ had no need to be baptised, after all; He did it to show us how to become righteous. The miracles our Lord worked were not essential, except that we should come to believe. Perhaps God got fed up with humanity’s unending sinful obsession with going our own way unless shown a 100% incontrovertible sign from Heaven. Many of us are still like that, despite the work of the Spirit of God! 😉
 
GloriousOrder said:
Our Lord being an eternal member of the Blessed Trinity, the Holy Ghost had no reason to descend upon Him other than to show us the right path. Christ had no need to be baptised, after all; He did it to show us how to become righteous. The miracles our Lord worked were not essential, except that we should come to believe. Perhaps God got fed up with humanity’s unending sinful obsession with going our own way unless shown a 100% incontrovertible sign from Heaven. Many of us are still like that, despite the work of the Spirit of God! 😉
Click to expand...
Just like after the flood God spoke and said go forth ect,also subdue all under thee,would he not have meant yourself ie man first.
I understand your answer of showing us,a truth know doubt,and so also as mary makes clear only when the Father allows would complement such an answer!! THANKS!
 
Matthew 3:16 And Jesus being baptized, forthwith came out of the water: and lo, the heavens were opened to him: and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon him.

The above is the public demonstration of Hid divinity. The III Ecumenical Council (Ephesus ) clearly defined that Jesus had his powers on His own as the Second Divine Person.
 
Thanks!
to be perfect human you could have no powers(scripture prevails)quote:?

who baptised john(the smallest in heaven)how could he be able to understand all man,first and last when he had a safety net!

like conformation the holy spirit descended making our Lord thus again GOD!
 
Jesus is the Messiah, the Anointed One. When the Holy Spirit descended upon Him, He was anointed for His ministry. This comes from the homily given at Mass this year during the celebration of The Baptism of Our Lord.
Unlike the rest of us, Jesus did not need Baptism for the forgiveness of any sins committed. He demonstrated humility in His obedience to the Father.
John is the forerunner of the Messiah who prepared the way. Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.
 
Remember when John the Baptist baptized, Baptism was not yet established. He did not use the form “In the Father, and in the Son, and in the Holy Spirit”. At that moment, the Trinity was revealed to the world, for our benefit, and to give us a model of our own baptism to come in the future.

I love this feast! I want to share some of the prayers from vespers in the Byzantine rite. So beautiful…

You have come, Lord, taking the form of a servant, and You who know not sin ask for baptism. The waters saw You and were afraid; the Forerunner was seized with trembling and cried aloud saying: “How shall the lamp illuminate the Light: How shall the servant set his hand upon the Master? O Saviour who takes away the sin of the world, sanctify both me and the waters!”

When the Jordan River received You, O Fountainhead, the Comforter descended in the form of a dove. Now behold the marvel: the One who bowed the heavens bows his head to the Forerunner, and the one made of clay cried out to his Maker: "Why do you command me to perform what is beyond my power? It is I who need to be baptized by You! O Christ our God, O Sinless One, glory to You!
 
YES i understand thankyou,but the question is still very close… so…

forgiveness of sins! of course he had none,as the lady above lastly stated,surely it is i that should baptise you!jesus reply was it is the way it is for now for righteousness sake.

Jesus spoke of doing only what he saw his father do,after baptism.

Gallilleo gallillea (sorry spelt daft) lets not forget he had a type of correct,but the popes with faith more correct.

where was or could be the mystery of faith if he wasn’t baptised!

obedience before faith,as written is key!

KNOW reply needed!
 
mark_avery said:
Considering the holy spirit was prevalent before the coming of our Lord,why would the holy spirit descend unto him?
My thought is that for he was son of man,a little lower than the Angels and also perfect.
possibly having to live out his life understanding all,first & last.
If there are any more specific reasons, I/we would be very thankful!!
Click to expand...
“Jesus possessed the fullness of the Holy Spirit from the moment of his conception.
The desent upon Jesus by the Holy Spirit indicates that just as Jesus was solemnly commencing his messianic task, so the Holy Spirit was beginning his action through him.”
Read the entire footnote > Navarre Bible> Matt.3:16
 
Matthew 3:16 - "And Jesus being baptized, forthwith came out of the water: and lo, the heavens were opened to him: and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon him."

Mark 1:10 - "And forthwith coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit as a dove descending, and remaining on him."

Luke 3:22 - "And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape, as a dove upon him; and a voice came from heaven: Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased."

John 1:32 - "And John gave testimony, saying: I saw the Spirit coming down, as a dove from heaven, and he remained upon him."

Some thoughts:
  • "and lo, the heavens were opened to him" - the heavens were opened (or the appearance of) so that those who witnessed it may know that the Holy Spirit came from Heaven and that the Voice which spoke came from Heaven.
  • ***“and he saw” *** / "I saw" - “and he saw” refers to Christ, but St John has; “I saw”. Here St John relates that John saw the Holy Spirit descending. That is; John saw this as a sign from God.
  • "as a dove" - Some of the Church Fathers debate whether it was a real body of a dove which decended or or only the appearance. I think most Catholic exegetes since then think that the appearance is more probable. It was not necessary that the Holy Ghost appear in a physical form, but only one which which had the appearance. Either opinion is acceptable. The only error which could occur would be to think that the Holy Ghost was united hypostatically with a dove - which would be a great error.
Why did the Holy Ghost descend on Christ? - Simply: To give testimony of Him. All present seen it as a Sign, including John.

Why a Dove? - The Holy Ghost gave testimony of Christ. It was fitting that that the one who gave testimony described the nature of the One He gives testimony of. Christ said;
*
Matthew 11:29 - “Take up my yoke upon you, and learn of me, because I am meek, and humble of heart: and you shall find rest to your souls.”*

The dove is seen as the most gentle of animals - the dove signifies Grace and Meekness (also the qualities of the Holy Ghost).
  • Why did the Holy Ghost descend? To fulfill the prophecies;
Isaias 11: 1- " And there shall come forth a rod out of the root of Jesse, and a flower shall rise up out of his root. [2] ***And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him: the spirit of wisdom, and of understanding, the spirit of counsel, and of fortitude, the spirit of knowledge, and of godliness. ***[3] And he shall be filled with the spirit of the fear of the Lord. He shall not judge according to the sight of the eyes, nor reprove according to the hearing of the ears. [4] But he shall judge the poor with justice, and shall reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: land he shall strike the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips he shall slay the wicked. [5] And justice shall be the girdle of his loins: and faith the girdle of his reins." etc

The prophecies had to be fulfilled so that all would know that Christ was the messiah.
  • "and a voice came from heaven: Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased" - That is not to say “pleased” as in “delighted” etc as some modernists would have it, but In whom God is “appeased” or reconcilled with us.
  • Also, many times God gives visions (as at Fatima) and words/messages accompany them. The Dove was a sign, and being silent, the voice accompanied it declaring the reason for it being there. Also, as in the Sacraments which are outward signs of invisible graces inwardly recieved (e.g. you cannot see the Holy Ghost being recieved at Confirmation, but you can see the imposition of the Bishops Hands and anointing which are the external signs) so too was the descent of the Holy Ghost manifested externally as a clear sign in the form of a Dove.
Sorry if this seems long winded/pedantic, but I think that the issue is best explained in light of the Circumstances around it i.e. the Baptism of Christ. The descent after Christs baptism also reminds us that it is the Holy Ghost we recieve at our own baptisms.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top