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105lynne
Guest
My mother-in-law is at it again! She claims that there is no such thing as the Holy Trinity. Is the Holy Trinity biblical? Please help me!
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H
Heuchler
Guest
The word trinity is never used in the Bible but there are clearly passages which show that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one and also are God. To state there isn’t a trinity would be to deny either Christ’s or the Holy Spirit’s claim to Godhood making Christ a heretic.
S
stanczyk
Guest
Here is Genesis 18:1-5:
[1] And the Lord appeared to him in the vale of Mambre as he was sitting at the door of his tent, in the very heat of the day. [2] And when he had lifted up his eyes, there appeared to him three men standing near him: and as soon as he saw them he ran to meet them from the door of his tent, and adored down to the ground. [3] And he said: Lord, if I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away from thy servant: [4] But I will fetch a little water, and wash ye your feet, and rest ye under the tree. [5] And I will set a morsel of bread, and strengthen ye your heart, afterwards you shall pass on: for therefore are you come aside to your servant. And they said: Do as thou hast spoken.
[1] And the Lord appeared to him in the vale of Mambre as he was sitting at the door of his tent, in the very heat of the day. [2] And when he had lifted up his eyes, there appeared to him three men standing near him: and as soon as he saw them he ran to meet them from the door of his tent, and adored down to the ground. [3] And he said: Lord, if I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away from thy servant: [4] But I will fetch a little water, and wash ye your feet, and rest ye under the tree. [5] And I will set a morsel of bread, and strengthen ye your heart, afterwards you shall pass on: for therefore are you come aside to your servant. And they said: Do as thou hast spoken.
F
followingtheway
Guest
[BIBLEDRB]John 1:1[/BIBLEDRB]
God bless
David
God bless
David
N
NHInsider
Guest
It took the early Church a couple of hundred years to sort out an explanation of the Trinity that adequately expressed the Truth that the Lord entrusted to the apostles. Assorted verses in the New Testament can be used to “prove” the doctrine of the Trinity (One God in Three Persons). Other verses can be cited which seem to “disprove” it. We believe that the Lord’s promise of the Holy Spirit’s guidance means that the teaching of the Church was and is correct.
The Trinity is, in fact, one of the earliest and most solid examples of what Catholics means when we talk about Tradition. And most of our non-catholic brothers and sisters are happy to embrace it, but unwilling to admit that it cannot be “proved” by “Scripture Alone.”
The Trinity is, in fact, one of the earliest and most solid examples of what Catholics means when we talk about Tradition. And most of our non-catholic brothers and sisters are happy to embrace it, but unwilling to admit that it cannot be “proved” by “Scripture Alone.”
T
TimothyH
Guest
Peter the Pope spells it out pretty clearly right up front.
Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the chosen sojourners of the dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, in the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification by the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling with the blood of Jesus Christ: may grace and peace be yours in abundance. (1 Peter 1:1-2)
-Tim-
Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the chosen sojourners of the dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, in the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification by the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling with the blood of Jesus Christ: may grace and peace be yours in abundance. (1 Peter 1:1-2)
-Tim-
S
stanczyk
Guest
Great explanation:thumbsup:
K
Katharine_Rose
Guest
Can’t get much plainer than that!
J
Jaypeeto4
Guest
Actually, and I don’t have page and paragraph references handy,
but Saint Justin Martyr, around 155 A.D., writes that we Christians worship
God the Father, Jesus the Son in the second place, and the Prophetic Spirit
((Holy Spirit)) in the third.
Not only that, but quoting from the Old Testament,
Justin repeatedly refers to JESUS as “The LORD of Hosts.”
Now, LORD means YAHWEH, or as some translate it, JEHOVAH,
or, frankly, no one else but GOD ALMIGHTY, for that is exactly who YAHWEH is.
And Justin, who had been a Christian for about 30 years by this time,
says that this is what ALL Christians are taught.
INCIDENTALLY, since people who deny the Trinity also tend to deny the soul and
the afterlife and punishment in Hell, Justin’s writings are full of references to ALL THESE DOCTRINES and more, including the Catholic doctrine of Mary as the “New Eve,” our mother, which these folks (such as JWs and Mormons) tend to falsely claim were foisted on the church around the Fourth Century. Justin’s writings (and Irenaeus’s too) PROVE
this claim to be a blatant and sacrilegious lie. Justin was taught by the Early Church that was taught BY THE APOSTLES AND THEIR IMMEDIATE DISCIPLES, and Justin and Irenaeus teach ALL THESE CATHOLIC and traditional trinitarian Christian teachings,
INCLUDING the Eucharist being the ACTUAL BODY AND BLOOD OF THE RISEN CHRIST as well as Sunday worship, baptismal regeneration by the Holy Spirit, etc etc etc.
The early church was trinitarian (though they didn’t usually use that word, they described it to a tee) and the early church was CATHOLIC doctrinally. The only area of difference is that in the early church there was still debate between two camps over whether the MILLENIUM was a literal 1,000 year reign of Jesus on earth in the earthly city of Jerusalem. Justin and Irenaeus believed in a literal millenium. Many others did NOT, and Justin acknowledged that and that they, too, were orthodox Christians.
So that issue had not been settled yet.
Love to all,
Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+
but Saint Justin Martyr, around 155 A.D., writes that we Christians worship
God the Father, Jesus the Son in the second place, and the Prophetic Spirit
((Holy Spirit)) in the third.
Not only that, but quoting from the Old Testament,
Justin repeatedly refers to JESUS as “The LORD of Hosts.”
Now, LORD means YAHWEH, or as some translate it, JEHOVAH,
or, frankly, no one else but GOD ALMIGHTY, for that is exactly who YAHWEH is.
And Justin, who had been a Christian for about 30 years by this time,
says that this is what ALL Christians are taught.
INCIDENTALLY, since people who deny the Trinity also tend to deny the soul and
the afterlife and punishment in Hell, Justin’s writings are full of references to ALL THESE DOCTRINES and more, including the Catholic doctrine of Mary as the “New Eve,” our mother, which these folks (such as JWs and Mormons) tend to falsely claim were foisted on the church around the Fourth Century. Justin’s writings (and Irenaeus’s too) PROVE
this claim to be a blatant and sacrilegious lie. Justin was taught by the Early Church that was taught BY THE APOSTLES AND THEIR IMMEDIATE DISCIPLES, and Justin and Irenaeus teach ALL THESE CATHOLIC and traditional trinitarian Christian teachings,
INCLUDING the Eucharist being the ACTUAL BODY AND BLOOD OF THE RISEN CHRIST as well as Sunday worship, baptismal regeneration by the Holy Spirit, etc etc etc.
The early church was trinitarian (though they didn’t usually use that word, they described it to a tee) and the early church was CATHOLIC doctrinally. The only area of difference is that in the early church there was still debate between two camps over whether the MILLENIUM was a literal 1,000 year reign of Jesus on earth in the earthly city of Jerusalem. Justin and Irenaeus believed in a literal millenium. Many others did NOT, and Justin acknowledged that and that they, too, were orthodox Christians.
So that issue had not been settled yet.
Love to all,
Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+
C
cap76
Guest
First of all, God teaches that there is more than one person in the God-head:
Genesis 1:26, ‘Then God said, "Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness…’
Though they are multiple, they still constitute one God:
Deuteronomy 6.39, ‘See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me…’
Two of the persons are the Father and the Son:
John5.18, 'Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
The “Holy Spirit” is denominated as a third person of the God-head:
Matthew 28.19 ,‘Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost…’
We could go on and on with so many references from God’s own testimony of Himself in the Bible. The hints are almost inexhaustible.
Genesis 1:26, ‘Then God said, "Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness…’
Though they are multiple, they still constitute one God:
Deuteronomy 6.39, ‘See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me…’
Two of the persons are the Father and the Son:
John5.18, 'Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
The “Holy Spirit” is denominated as a third person of the God-head:
Matthew 28.19 ,‘Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost…’
We could go on and on with so many references from God’s own testimony of Himself in the Bible. The hints are almost inexhaustible.
J
Jaypeeto4
Guest
Go read my above post again,dear daddygirl. 
The Trinity, though the word was first used around 180 A.D.,
was the belief of the early church from the very beginning.
Read Justin. Read Irenaeus, bishop of Lyons.
These men believed in it, and were in full, approved-of communion with the entire
early church, which early church TAUGHT IT TO THEM.
It is NOT TRUE that the Trinity was formulated at the Council of Nicea for the first time.
What IS true,
is that the Council of Nicea was CONVENED BECAUSE the Trinity,
the historic, long-held belief of the Church, was being openly DENIED for the first time,
by Arius and his cohorts. This council was held in 325 A.D. Constantine was an honored OBSERVER, but the Council was under the control of the BISHOPS, not Constantine, **headed by Bishop Hosius (or Ossius) of Cordova, who was the appointed personal representative of the Pope of Rome, together with two priests who served Hosius as papal legates. ** This ecumenical council, as are all true ecumenical councils, was under the authority of and subject to the final approval of, the bishop of Rome, the “pope.”
The Trinity, though the word was first used around 180 A.D.,
was the belief of the early church from the very beginning.
Read Justin. Read Irenaeus, bishop of Lyons.
These men believed in it, and were in full, approved-of communion with the entire
early church, which early church TAUGHT IT TO THEM.
It is NOT TRUE that the Trinity was formulated at the Council of Nicea for the first time.
What IS true,
is that the Council of Nicea was CONVENED BECAUSE the Trinity,
the historic, long-held belief of the Church, was being openly DENIED for the first time,
by Arius and his cohorts. This council was held in 325 A.D. Constantine was an honored OBSERVER, but the Council was under the control of the BISHOPS, not Constantine, **headed by Bishop Hosius (or Ossius) of Cordova, who was the appointed personal representative of the Pope of Rome, together with two priests who served Hosius as papal legates. ** This ecumenical council, as are all true ecumenical councils, was under the authority of and subject to the final approval of, the bishop of Rome, the “pope.”
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105lynne
Guest
I appreciate everyone’s (name removed by moderator)ut. HOWEVER, this won’t satisfy my motheri-in-law. Since the word “trinity” isn’t specifically stated, none of these answers will be of any use to her. I believe it to be true and I trust the Holy Spirit to guide the Catholic Church and it’s teachings. She believes that “church” is when 2 or more people pray together. She says it doesn’t make sense that God would sit at His own right hand. Jesus doesn’t know the time of the final judgement, therefore He isn’t equal to God.
My advice to those single folks out there: Make a great effort to date and marry within your faith. I married into a Protestant family (husband included) and its the absolute pits sometimes!! I love these people, but I hate being attacked!
My advice to those single folks out there: Make a great effort to date and marry within your faith. I married into a Protestant family (husband included) and its the absolute pits sometimes!! I love these people, but I hate being attacked!
J
Jesus_123
Guest
+The Trinity in Sacred :bible1: Scripture . . .
God bless . . . *
. . . thank You Blessed Lord our Saviour+
. . . thank You Gracious Heavenly Father+
. . . thank You Sweet Spirit of our Holy God+*
. . . :coffeeread: . . .
:bible1: Matthew 3:16–17: And Jesus being baptized, forthwith came out of the water: and lo, the heavens were opened to him: and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon him. And behold a Voice from heaven, saying: This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. *(also Mark 1:10–11; Luke 3:22; John 1:32) *
:bible1: Matthew 28:19: Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the **Father **and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. *(see Trinitarian formula). *
:bible1: 2 Corinthians 13:14: The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the charity of God and the communication of the Holy Ghost be with all of you. Amen.
:bible1: 1 John 5:7–8: And there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one. And there are three that give testimony on earth: the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three are one.
:bible1: **Luke 1:35: **And the angel answering, said to her: The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Most High shall overshadow thee. And therefore also the Holy which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
:bible1: Hebrews 9:14: How much more shall the **blood **of Christ, who by the **Holy Ghost **offered himself unspotted unto God, cleanse our conscience from dead works, to serve the living God?
Thr Trinity is believed upon by evangelical and most protestant denominations . . . this unbelief on the part of your mother-in-law seems to be an individual quirk/error on her part . . .:bible1: Matthew 3:16–17: And Jesus being baptized, forthwith came out of the water: and lo, the heavens were opened to him: and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon him. And behold a Voice from heaven, saying: This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. *(also Mark 1:10–11; Luke 3:22; John 1:32) *
:bible1: Matthew 28:19: Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the **Father **and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. *(see Trinitarian formula). *
:bible1: 2 Corinthians 13:14: The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the charity of God and the communication of the Holy Ghost be with all of you. Amen.
:bible1: 1 John 5:7–8: And there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one. And there are three that give testimony on earth: the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three are one.
:bible1: **Luke 1:35: **And the angel answering, said to her: The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Most High shall overshadow thee. And therefore also the Holy which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
:bible1: Hebrews 9:14: How much more shall the **blood **of Christ, who by the **Holy Ghost **offered himself unspotted unto God, cleanse our conscience from dead works, to serve the living God?
God bless . . . *
. . . all for Jesus+
. . . thank You Blessed Lord our Saviour+
. . . thank You Gracious Heavenly Father+
. . . thank You Sweet Spirit of our Holy God+*
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105lynne
Guest
Thanks for your answer. It’s funny you mention other Protestants believing the Trinity. This whole discussion came about because she was in an email battle with Joyce Myers (who is a protestant minister) over it. Joyce Myers believes it and teaches it. My mother-in-law was also talking about the confusion in religion. If I was a more courageous person (I like to keep the peace as much as possible) I would say “One Catholic church, 2,000 years old…over 33,000 Protestant denominations. It is clear where the confusions is…”
R
Rdunbar123
Guest
Actually, the approval of the whole church was needed, usually the pope was the last because I’m not sure any of the Bishops of Rome attended the first 7 Ecumenical councils. They just sent delegates.Go read my above post again,dear daddygirl.
The Trinity, though the word was first used around 180 A.D.,
was the belief of the early church from the very beginning.
Read Justin. Read Irenaeus, bishop of Lyons.
These men believed in it, and were in full, approved-of communion with the entire
early church, which early church TAUGHT IT TO THEM.
It is NOT TRUE that the Trinity was formulated at the Council of Nicea for the first time.
What IS true,
is that the Council of Nicea was CONVENED BECAUSE the Trinity,
the historic, long-held belief of the Church, was being openly DENIED for the first time,
by Arius and his cohorts. This council was held in 325 A.D. Constantine was an honored OBSERVER, but the Council was under the control of the BISHOPS, not Constantine, **headed by Bishop Hosius (or Ossius) of Cordova, who was the appointed personal representative of the Pope of Rome, together with two priests who served Hosius as papal legates. ** This ecumenical council, as are all true ecumenical councils, was under the authority of and subject to the final approval of, the bishop of Rome, the “pope.”
T
TimothyH
Guest
The Trinity is a reality. Our concpet of it was revealed to us by God.
It was not a decision of men, but a revelation by God, through the teaching of Jesus Christ and guidance of the Holy Spirit.
The Trinity is a revealed truth, not a decision.
-Tim-
J
Jesus_123
Guest
:bible1: “So shall **my word **be that goeth forth out of **my **mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which **I **please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto **I **sent it.” Isaiah 55:11
+You can print out and share the portions of Sacred :bible1: Scripture you’ve received regarding the Trinity and give them to your mother-in-law . . . they clearly support the triune nature of our . . . Wonderful God . . . for her . . . and then trusting in the sweet counsel of the **Scripture **quoted above . . . prayer
fully trust the Lord to bless His Holy :bible1: Word to bear good fruit in her soul in due season . . .I tend to be very charitable in thought about the many evangelical and protestant branches of the Christian Faith outside our Holy Mother Church . . . many of whose followers truly love
the Lord . . . their lack of contact as Christians with the multitude of the variety of spiritualities within the Catholic Church . . . different orders . . . etc. . . . I am sure contributes to souls seeking particular comfortable spiritual fits for their souls’ growth and development as God’s children . . . within our Church we have the precious blessing of knowing that there are built upon the foundation of Catholicism many . . . many . . . deep pools of holy spiritual practice which our Dear Lord has opened up . . . such as Franciscans, Benedictines, Carmelites (calced and discalced), Dominicans, Jesuits, Passionists, Marians, Augustinians, Daughters of St. Paul, Assumptionists, Barnabites, Paulist Fathers, Redemptorists, Monks of Adoration, etc., etc., etc. . . . to mention just a very few spiritualities of which there are many many more . . . and within each of these are a great variety of congregant expressions inside of the individual charisms . . .Lacking the depth of riches of the cohesive and harmonious structure found within the Apostolic Holy Roman Catholic Church . . . which ties all these Catholic spiritualities together in unity . . . those outside the church found congregations as they try to find their specific niche in the Body of Christ where they belong . . . but lacking the wonderful insight and greater light and knowledge as to the wide variety of true healthy spiritualities to be found within their original Mother Catholic Church from whom they have been separated . . . and the Catholic Church at Large’s solid apostolic foundation . . . these congregations outside Catholicism are considerably and necessarily limited in scope and practice and harmony with one another . . .
*God bless . . . *
. . . all for Jesus+
. . . thank You Dear Blessed Lord+
. . . thank You Gracious Heavenly Father+
. . . thank You Sweet Spirit of our Holy God+
. . . thank you Blessed Virgin Mary our Mother+
. . . thank you Blessed Holy Mother Church+
. . . Praise God From Whom All Blessings Flow!+
:harp:
. . . thank You Dear Blessed Lord+
. . . thank You Gracious Heavenly Father+
. . . thank You Sweet Spirit of our Holy God+
. . . thank you Blessed Virgin Mary our Mother+
. . . thank you Blessed Holy Mother Church+
. . . Praise God From Whom All Blessings Flow!+
:harp:
C
cap76
Guest
Their problem is that they don’t know their Bibles. If they were orthodox protestants they would embrace the doctrine of the Trinity.
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105lynne
Guest
I know, right?! The problem is also the fact that she does her own personal interpretation of the Bible. My mother-in-law wrote in her email that she has a problem accepting “man’s interpretation” of the Bible. Uh, contradiction much? She IS man interpreting the Bible!! And imposing her personal interpretations on others. So why is it ok for her to do that, but it’s bad for the Magesterium to do it?? Why is she allowed to be an expert, but anyone whose opinions differ from hers aren’t qualified or touched by the Holy Spirit? I love this woman, but dang!!!
And thanks to all who are patient enough to listen to my venting. sigh
- Status