The homosexual state of mind: Marriage isn't about a man & woman but love & love

[Regular_Atheist]

So you have no problem with things like incest or bestiality. Now I know where you are coming from.

I do have problems with it, actually. I have my own morality, and so does everyone else. I believe our morality should come from a rational look at our actions, and how it affects other people. There are, what, seven billion other people on the planet, and my actions affect them. I am also against animal cruelty, and believe in informed consent. An animal cannot consent to sexual acts. Neither can a young child. Therefore, bestaility and paedophilia are immoral.

Incest can also lead to deformities over time, which is why I disprove of it.

 

[buffalo]

No. I’m saying that if something happens in nature then, by definition, it is natural.

Natural - Existing in or caused by nature; not made or caused by humankind.

Of course, you have raised on an issue that people sometimes bring up. If humans are a part of nature then, I suppose, everything could be considered natural. At any rate, whether something is or isn’t natural doesn’t have any affect on whether it’s good or bad.

Good to see you are parsing through the logic. There is hope for you yet.

 

[livingwordunity]

Regular Atheist,

What is your goal in posting here? Is it to convert Catholics to being amoral like you?

 

[buffalo]

Morality is subjective. Nothing is universally morally wrong.

Good - then it is OK if I take a contract out on all atheists. (just joking but making a point)

 

[CopticChristian]

America’s history wouldn’t include the size of cities, now, would it?

Besides, when it was added DOES matter, because the founding fathers of the USA created it to be a nation with church and state seperation. And, no, they were not all Christian as some people like to think. Thomas Jefferson seemed to disprove of Christianity. I think he was a deist or pantheist of sorts.

Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one-half the world fools and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.
– Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781-82

freethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers.html

OK,

I will humor you…here is what I find about the founding fathers…

Lambert (2003) has examined the religious affiliations and beliefs of the Founders. Of the 55 delegates to the 1787 Constitutional Convention, 49 were Protestants, and two were Roman Catholics (D. Carroll, and Fitzsimons). Among the Protestant delegates to the Constitutional Convention, 28 were Church of England (or Episcopalian, after the American Revolutionary War was won), eight were Presbyterians, seven were Congregationalists, two were Lutherans, two were Dutch Reformed, and two were Methodists.

A few prominent Founding Fathers were anti-clerical Christians, such as Thomas Jefferson (who created the so-called “Jefferson Bible”) and Benjamin Franklin. A few others (most notably Thomas Paine) were deists, or at least held beliefs very similar to those of deists.

I don’t think or know if any were homosexual or were involved in same sex marriage, do you?

Now humor me what is the biggest city by population in America…

 

[Regular_Atheist]

Nope - it makes it neither, for in any case it cannot achieve purpose therefore it is deviant. Now we can start asking why it even exists?

I beg to differ with the human classification of humans just being social animals.

Why does it exist? Well, human sexuality is a complicated matter, and we don’t actually know why people experience homosexual attraction. Or animals, for that matter. Besides, since when does everything that cannot achieve purpose lead to it being deviant? Is kissing deviant? Or holding hands? Should people only have sex when the woman is ovulating? If we have sex any time but that time, is it deviance?

And, if we’re not social animals, what are we?

 

[buffalo]

America’s history wouldn’t include the size of cities, now, would it?

Besides, when it was added DOES matter, because the founding fathers of the USA created it to be a nation with church and state seperation. And, no, they were not all Christian as some people like to think. Thomas Jefferson seemed to disprove of Christianity. I think he was a deist or pantheist of sorts.

Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one-half the world fools and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.
– Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781-82

freethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers.html

Where did you get this? Where in the Constitution is separation of church and state?

Source for the millions of innocent men comment?

 

[Regular_Atheist]

OK,
I don’t think or know if any were homosexual or were involved in same sex marriage, do you?

Please show where I said “The founding fathers were homosexual, therefore homosexuality is good.” I simply stated that the founding fathers made America to be a secular nation, with church and state seperation.

Now humor me what is the biggest city by population in America…

New York. Like I said, it’s not history.

 

[jimmy]

Yes, a system of law that is supposedly determined by nature and is universal. It’s a way of deciding out what is moral or not. I don’t really know how you decide what fits into natural law, though. It all seems very subjective to me.

But homosexuality is found in lots of animals, notably social animals (which is what humans are):

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_animals
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior
news-medical.net/news/2006/10/23/20718.aspx

However, they don’t normally engage in just homosexuality alone, but also heterosexuality. Although we probably can’t label their sexuality, I suppose we’d have to call them ‘bisexual’ if we did.

Before you mention it, I’m not saying that homosexuality being seen in nature nessecarily makes it moral, but it does make it natural.

That isn’t what natural law is. It isn’t a study of what animals do in nature or in the forest. Natural law is associated with philosophy and it asserts that there is a nature to man (everything has its own nature). Natural law is an explanation of morality or ethics or behavior according to that nature. So you might have an assertion, ‘do good, avoid evil’. That is the first statement of natural law. The idea is that there is good and evil, because there is a specific nature of things. We aren’t simply animals, so we can’t be explained simply by the animal instincts.

 

[Regular_Atheist]

Where did you get this? Where in the Constitution is separation of church and state?

The first amendment states “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof …”

Source for the millions of innocent men comment?

It’s mentioned on the quote. It’s from a book written by Thomas Jefferson called “Notes on the State of Virginia”

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notes_on_the_State_of_Virginia

 

[Regular_Atheist]

That isn’t what natural law is. It isn’t a study of what animals do in nature or in the forest. Natural law is associated with philosophy and it asserts that there is a nature to man (everything has its own nature). Natural law is an explanation of morality or ethics or behavior according to that nature. So you might have an assertion, ‘do good, avoid evil’. That is the first statement of natural law. The idea is that there is good and evil, because there is a specific nature of things. We aren’t simply animals, so we can’t be explained simply by the animal instincts.

Fair enough, but I still maintain that what one considers to be within ‘natural law’ is subjective, and entirely depends upon that persons point of view.

By the way, buffalo, in case you miss this:

Where did you get this? Where in the Constitution is separation of church and state?

The first amendment states “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof …”

Source for the millions of innocent men comment?

It’s mentioned on the quote. It’s from a book written by Thomas Jefferson called “Notes on the State of Virginia”

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notes_on_the_State_of_Virginia

 

[jimmy]

Morality is subjective. Nothing is universally morally wrong.

Why even enter into a discussion about it then? The result of the discussion is the same either way. I am guessing you have no opinion on the sandusky/Penn State case that has been in the news lately. After all, sandusky wasn’t really wrong except in some narrowly defined society that is prejudiced against his sexual orientation.

 

[buffalo]

Why does it exist? Well, human sexuality is a complicated matter, and we don’t actually know why people experience homosexual attraction. Or animals, for that matter. Besides, since when does everything that cannot achieve purpose lead to it being deviant? Is kissing deviant? Or holding hands? Should people only have sex when the woman is ovulating? If we have sex any time but that time, is it deviance?

And, if we’re not social animals, what are we?

Animals do not experience SSA. They will instinctively mount another for no other reason than proximity. Humans make a conscious decision to do so. There is no comparison.

The genesis of SSA is not entirely known, but converging evidence is pointing to early childhood dysfunction. And by the way almost all teenage sexual confusion entirely disappears by age 25.

What were the reproductive organs designed for?

Human beings.

 

[CopticChristian]

Please show where I said “The founding fathers were homosexual, therefore homosexuality is good.” I simply stated that the founding fathers made America to be a secular nation, with church and state seperation.

New York. Like I said, it’s not history.

Regular,

It is worse than I thought…:ehh:You are narrow minded and myopic…America includes North America, Central America and South America…the largest city in America by population would be

Sao Paulo City Brazil
Mexico City
New York City

I understand your narrow minded focus as you present your position on one part of the body to determine the entire scope of history…:doh2:

 

[Regular_Atheist]

Regular,

It is worse than I thought…:ehh:You are narrow minded and myopic…America includes North America, Central America and South America…the largest city in America by population would be

Sao Paulo City Brazil
Mexico City
New York City

I understand your narrow minded focus as you present your position on one part of the body to determine the entire scope of history…:doh2:

That’s not being narrow minded. You tricked me. When I was referring to America’s history, you know very well I was talking about the USA. Besides, falling for that doesn’t even fit in with the definition of narrow minded. It possibly makes me gullible, but not narrow minded

Narrow minded - Lacking tolerance, breadth of view, or sympathy; petty.

If anything, you’re narrow minded for failing to feel empathy for homosexuals.

 

[livingwordunity]

The first amendment states “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof …”

I hope that you find out how much God loves you and repent before you die. I’m not being judgmental since I can admit that I often struggle with sin and hope that I will have the grace to be sorry for my sins and be in a state of grace at the moment of my death. Every time our heart beats is not by our own doing but because God wills it. And our heart can stop beating at any moment when we least expect it. We didn’t get into this world on our own. I don’t know how old you are, but I’m old enough to have seen a lot of people leave this world. I’ve even been to the funeral for a one month old baby. So I know how short and fragile this life is. There’s no comparison between the time in this world and the length of eternity.

 

[buffalo]

The first amendment states “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof …”

It’s mentioned on the quote. It’s from a book written by Thomas Jefferson called “Notes on the State of Virginia”

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notes_on_the_State_of_Virginia

Right, and that is as far as it goes, no imposed state religion. What it amounts to is like a one way valve, a check valve so to speak. It does not discourage religion influencing either the public square or government (we, the people).

Thomas Jefferson Document - we can start here.

Following is an original document in our possession, signed by Thomas Jefferson on September 24, 1807. This document is permission for a ship called the Herschel to proceed on its journey to the port of London. The interesting characteristic of this document is the use of the phrase “in the year of our Lord Christ.” Many official documents say “in the year of our Lord,” but we have found very few that include the word “Christ.” However, this is the explicitly Christian language that President Thomas Jefferson chose to use in official public presidential documents.

http://www.wallbuilders.com/resources/historical/images/Jefferson1807.jpg

 

[Regular_Atheist]

Animals do not experience SSA. They will instinctively mount another for no other reason than proximity. Humans make a conscious decision to do so. There is no comparison.

Who made you a biologist? Besides, you obviously failed to read what I wrote. I didn’t say it being natural made it moral. it just means it’s natural - nothing more, nothing less. Also, tell me, if everything unnatural is evil, do you also regard eyeglasses, central heating and mobile phones as immoral?

The genesis of SSA is not entirely known, but converging evidence is pointing to early childhood dysfunction. And by the way almost all teenage sexual confusion entirely disappears by age 25.

Reliable source, please. I thought it normally disappeared a lot earlier if it’s a phase. And this doesn’t mean much, as many homosexuals keep SSA through their entire life. Just ask Stephen Fry. Or Ted Haggard (who, despite his “ex-gay” treatment, says he would identify as a bisexual).

What were the reproductive organs designed for?

Human beings.

They weren’t designed.

 

[Regular_Atheist]

Right, and that is as far as it goes, no imposed state religion. What it amounts to is like a one way valve, a check valve so to speak. It does not discourage religion influencing either the public square or government (we, the people).

Thomas Jefferson Document - we can start here.

Following is an original document in our possession, signed by Thomas Jefferson on September 24, 1807. This document is permission for a ship called the Herschel to proceed on its journey to the port of London. The interesting characteristic of this document is the use of the phrase “in the year of our Lord Christ.” Many official documents say “in the year of our Lord,” but we have found very few that include the word “Christ.” However, this is the explicitly Christian language that President Thomas Jefferson chose to use in official public presidential documents.

That means nothing. The majority of people in the country were Christian, so it’s likely for that to be on a document. Besides, putting Christ on it doesn’t make a difference when you’ve already got Lord - it’s still referring to the god of the Bible either way. It is, I’m afraid, fact that Thomas Jefferson wasn’t a Christian. If you do some Googling, you’ll find that many of his quotes tell us that he really didn’t like the Christian god at all.

 

[jimmy]

That’s not being narrow minded. You tricked me. When I was referring to America’s history, you know very well I was talking about the USA. Besides, falling for that doesn’t even fit in with the definition of narrow minded. It possibly makes me gullible, but not narrow minded

Narrow minded - Lacking tolerance, breadth of view, or sympathy; petty.

If anything, you’re narrow minded for failing to feel empathy for homosexuals.

That is a typical assertion of liberals. If you don’t feel the way I do, then you are narrow minded. It is the way of politics. The Democratic party focuses on pandering to every special interest group including homosexuals, mexicans, blacks, women, etc. and everyone who doesn’t agree with the democrats is narrow minded and even racist, mysoginistic, homophobic, and etc. Sling insults and you make the other person look like a jerk who can’t be trusted.