The Homosexuality Debate

[Lost_Wanderer]

I hate to say this but I am strictly neutral on the topic of gay marriage. This means I neither support it nor oppose it for I have seen complete idiots on both sides of the debate. On one hand we have your typical gay-bashing, street preaching fundamentalist who thinks homosexuals oughta be in concentration camps and are abominations, on the other we have the militant, atheistic, liberal gay-activist who uses sappy emotional appeals and constant use of the victim card to back up their agenda while constantly decrying anything that even slightly shows opposition to them by calling it ‘hurtful, discriminating, and homophobic bigotry’.

So with that said, I would like to ask for the most widely used arguments used by either side and see if any of you can help me out in picking a side. I’m tired of seeing tomfoolery on both ends of the spectrum.

 

[buffalo]

Defeating Gay Arguments with Simple Logic
Defeating Gay Arguments with Simple Logic

Defeating Gay Arguments with Simple Logic *

There is no shame in believing a lie until you learn the truth.*
The success of so-called “gay rights” is an amazing triumph of clever deception over simple logic. When it comes to this issue, otherwise intelligent people routinely fall for arguments that just don’t hold up under scrutiny. “Gay” sympathizers aren’t necessarily more gullible than other people, they are simply tricked into accepting certain conclusions without first examining the underlying premises.
He who defines the terms controls the debate – and by extension, public opinion. On this issue the terms have been defined (in many cases invented) by the talented sophists of the “gay” movement.
Sophistry, it must be noted, is the ancient Greek art of persuasion by subtly false reasoning. The key to overcoming sophistry is to simplify and clarify what the sophists have intentionally made complex and vague. That process begins by defining the terms and concepts being used in the arguments. One quickly discovers that most arguments advocating “gay rights” depend upon hidden false assumptions and deliberately ambiguous terms. It’s all smoke and mirrors.

Among the most common terms and concepts in the “gay rights” debate are: homosexuality, sexual orientation, heterosexism, diversity, multi-culturalism, inclusiveness, discrimination, homophobia and tolerance. These words and phrases are used by “gay” sophists to frame the question of homosexuality as a civil rights issue. It is a context chosen to favor homosexuals to the extent that they cast themselves as victims and their opponents as oppressors, yet even within this context, “gay” arguments are easily refuted.

more…

 

[EmeraldWings]

i will give you a simple answer.

marriages main purpose is for procreation, which a gay couple cannot accomplish.
in which case they are not fulfilling the natural purpose of marriage as God intended it.

masturbation is a mortal sin, which is a gay couples only forum of intercourse.
to support homosexuality then, is to support sin, which goes against Gods command for us to Love our neighbor.

now of course there is waaay more to it then that, but that is as simple as i can put it, since clearly you have already heard many arguments and views on it, i figured i wouldn’t tell you a bunch of things you already knew.

 

[ShemariahBeans]

The gospel of Christ is meant to be an offense to all people. It makes no logical sense that the Son of God would empty Himself, hang on a tree for the sins of those who would reject Him.

So logic is irrelevant here, it is what we know to be true.

As a single person, I am called to a life of celibacy. Completely. My younger brother finds this unthinkable, an abomination. So be it.

Sexual union is holy. HA! See what reaction the media moguls would have to that one.

So much of what God intended as blessings for the different stations of life gets so perverted. I am talking here about sex, not just homosexuality.

The primary objection then would be that if one cannot marry due to their sexual orientation, then one must remain celibate.

Who can accept this teaching? It’s like being told to eat the body and blood of your Lord. The teachings of Jesus, yea, His commandments, caused many disciples to turn away from Him. (See John 6).

Satan is feasting on this. The blinders are people are immense. We need to pray, pray, and then pray some more, and love those who are blinded.
Beans

 

[ShemariahBeans]

These words and phrases are used by “gay” sophists to frame the question of homosexuality as a civil rights issue. It is a context chosen to favor homosexuals to the extent that they cast themselves as victims and their opponents as oppressors, yet even within this context, “gay” arguments are easily refuted.
QUOTE]
If someone discrimates against a homosexual on the basis of their homosexuality, that is wrong, wrong, wrong. It is not loving your neighbor, it is condemning them for their actions.
God loves each and every one of us. “God sent His Son not to condemn the world, but that through Him the world might be saved.” John 3:17 If God so loved the world, then I am compelled to do the same.
Therefore, i would stand against discrimination based on someone being gay.
Beans

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

buffalo;4199899:

These words and phrases are used by “gay” sophists to frame the question of homosexuality as a civil rights issue. It is a context chosen to favor homosexuals to the extent that they cast themselves as victims and their opponents as oppressors, yet even within this context, “gay” arguments are easily refuted.

If someone discrimates against a homosexual on the basis of their homosexuality, that is wrong, wrong, wrong. It is not loving your neighbor, it is condemning them for their actions.
God loves each and every one of us. “God sent His Son not to condemn the world, but that through Him the world might be saved.” John 3:17 If God so loved the world, then I am compelled to do the same.
Therefore, i would stand against discrimination based on someone being gay.
Beans

From what I understood of what he said, people are trying to redefine homosexuality in a way that favors them (in other words, a biased definition) I read the article a little bit more and I’m more on his side on this one actually. I don’t like a false redefinition of anything, especially if it was for the benefit of only one side.

 

[Andruschak]

Well…here is what the Roman catholic catechism has to say on the subject, all three sections of it…

Chastity and homosexuality

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,140 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."141 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

 

[thistle]

I hate to say this but I am strictly neutral on the topic of gay marriage. This means I neither support it nor oppose it for I have seen complete idiots on both sides of the debate. On one hand we have your typical gay-bashing, street preaching fundamentalist who thinks homosexuals oughta be in concentration camps and are abominations, on the other we have the militant, atheistic, liberal gay-activist who uses sappy emotional appeals and constant use of the victim card to back up their agenda while constantly decrying anything that even slightly shows opposition to them by calling it ‘hurtful, discriminating, and homophobic bigotry’.

So with that said, I would like to ask for the most widely used arguments used by either side and see if any of you can help me out in picking a side. I’m tired of seeing tomfoolery on both ends of the spectrum.

Catholics CANNOT be neutral on this. That would mean you do not accept the Church’s teaching (See Andruschak’s post quoting the Church’s teaching). To not accept a Church teaching is heresy.

 

[Methodi]

Well…here is what the Roman catholic catechism has to say on the subject, all three sections of it…

Chastity and homosexuality

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,140 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."141 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

I am Catholic & I do believe God made them for a reason, they are in all the far corners of the earth of all religions. we are all sexual beings, sex is a natural thing that God gave us to enjoy. I once had a friend who thought that they were created as a form of birth control, who Knows what our Mighty God had in mind when he created them. There are also a lot of other mysteries surrounding God

 

[thistle]

I am Catholic & I do believe God made them for a reason, they are in all the far corners of the earth of all religions. we are all sexual beings, sex is a natural thing that God gave us to enjoy. I once had a friend who thought that they were created as a form of birth control, who Knows what our Mighty God had in mind when he created them. There are also a lot of other mysteries surrounding God

God allows us to enjoy sex ONLY between husband and wife. If a Catholic does not accept that it is heresy.

 

[Methodi]

God allows us to enjoy sex ONLY between husband and wife. If a Catholic does not accept that it is heresy.

Please, catholics are cohabitating long before they are married . Back when I was a youngster , it was all the catholic girls who were getting pregnant, by catholic boys. You didnt see it that much among the protestants

 

[HappyRevert]

Please, catholics are cohabitating long before they are married . Back when I was a youngster , it was all the catholic girls who were getting pregnant, by catholic boys. You didnt see it that much among the protestants

Does that mean you think it is a good thing? To say something exists is one thing, to say it is good and correct is another. If our hyper sexual culture were correct, then it would be evidenced by a fulfillment of the individuals in our culture by living a sexually disordered life. I haven’t seen a huge rise in personal integrity, peace and sense of self because of living together before marriage, promiscuity or homosexuality. I would definitely say it has caused huge societal and individual problems. We were made for monogamy and the framework of family is the best way that has been designed for us to be fulfilled both as individuals and as a society.

 

[QuietTimes]

Please, catholics are cohabitating long before they are married . Back when I was a youngster , it was all the catholic girls who were getting pregnant, by catholic boys. You didnt see it that much among the protestants

And this is your reasoning for accepting the homosexual agenda?

I have seen many protestant children end up pregnant also.
So what then.

Let’s look at the facts and be objective about this.

You know here in California lat week the (name removed by moderator) has allowed for Partner A and B to used rather than “Bride and Groom” on marriage licensences. Along with the fact that schools are getting ready to change the “language” some books may have to be more appropriate and gay friendly. But I digress.

I know this was posted already but it does not hurt to read it again and SLOWLY if need be.
2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.CCC

This applies to even singles.

 

[Methodi]

Does that mean you think it is a good thing? To say something exists is one thing, to say it is good and correct is another. If our hyper sexual culture were correct, then it would be evidenced by a fulfillment of the individuals in our culture by living a sexually disordered life. I haven’t seen a huge rise in personal integrity, peace and sense of self because of living together before marriage, promiscuity or homosexuality. I would definitely say it has caused huge societal and individual problems. We were made for monogamy and the framework of family is the best way that has been designed for us to be fulfilled both as individuals and as a society.

I definitely do not think it`s good, I am only saying what is.

 

[whatevergirl]

Does that mean you think it is a good thing? To say something exists is one thing, to say it is good and correct is another. If our hyper sexual culture were correct, then it would be evidenced by a fulfillment of the individuals in our culture by living a sexually disordered life. I haven’t seen a huge rise in personal integrity, peace and sense of self because of living together before marriage, promiscuity or homosexuality. I would definitely say it has caused huge societal and individual problems. We were made for monogamy and the framework of family is the best way that has been designed for us to be fulfilled both as individuals and as a society.

Great post.

 

[HappyRevert]

I hate to say this but I am strictly neutral on the topic of gay marriage. This means I neither support it nor oppose it for I have seen complete idiots on both sides of the debate. On one hand we have your typical gay-bashing, street preaching fundamentalist who thinks homosexuals oughta be in concentration camps and are abominations, on the other we have the militant, atheistic, liberal gay-activist who uses sappy emotional appeals and constant use of the victim card to back up their agenda while constantly decrying anything that even slightly shows opposition to them by calling it ‘hurtful, discriminating, and homophobic bigotry’.

So with that said, I would like to ask for the most widely used arguments used by either side and see if any of you can help me out in picking a side. I’m tired of seeing tomfoolery on both ends of the spectrum.

My favorite way to look at this issue to to look at it from two different points of view. One is how it will impact the society, and the other is how it will impact individuals. We are called to love all our brothers and sisters whether homosexual or not (My line I have said to my teenage boys is "I don’t remember the Lord saying, “Love your neighbor as you love yourself - unless they are homosexual - in which case beat them up” - to illustrate this point) However, as a society we must protect the future generations and the way to do this is to protect our families. They are the foundation of our society and families produce children to ensure the continuation of our society. Homosexual couples do not reproduce by and large (I know there are scientific advances etc. but as a societal movement they don’t), and therefore our primary need is to ensure that families are protected.

The second argument is from an individual’s point of view. I understand that many homosexuals would like their union’s recognized as a marriage, but that is not going to help their situation. If they want protection under the law like those heterosexuals who cohabitate, then certainly that should be afforded that protection (since they are both outside of marriage), but what they have is not a marriage. They seek validation of their choices, but a marriage is between a man and woman for the sake of creating and then protecting the children from that union (old fashioned I know, but it’s worked for 10,000 years). The more “modern” definitions of marriage - linking souls, completing you etc. are very nice sounding, but not practical.

I know there are many cases of single people raising children either by choice (adoption - what holy people to do that!) or circumstance (everything else), but anyone who has raised children will affirm that it is best to have two parents who care for them to do the raising. That system should be supported as much as possible.

 

[Methodi]

And this is your reasoning for accepting the homosexual agenda?

I have seen many protestant children end up pregnant also.
So what then.

Let’s look at the facts and be objective about this.

You know here in California lat week the (name removed by moderator) has allowed for Partner A and B to used rather than “Bride and Groom” on marriage licensences. Along with the fact that schools are getting ready to change the “language” some books may have to be more appropriate and gay friendly. But I digress.

I know this was posted already but it does not hurt to read it again and SLOWLY if need be.
2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.CCC

This applies to even singles.

God created them , I dont think he created them by accident, so what are they supposed to do Not all Homosexuals are catholic, what do they know about being called to holiness, you know more people in this world dont attend church than do. These people have been since the beginning of time. I do not support same sex marriages, tho I believe Homosexual persons have a large burden to carry, they were created that way thru no fault of their own

 

[buffalo]

God created them , I dont think he created them by accident, so what are they supposed to do Not all Homosexuals are catholic, what do they know about being called to holiness, you know more people in this world dont attend church than do. These people have been since the beginning of time. I do not support same sex marriages, tho I believe Homosexual persons have a large burden to carry, they were created that way thru no fault of their own

There is no gay gene.

 

[Ailina]

Please, catholics are cohabitating long before they are married . Back when I was a youngster , it was all the catholic girls who were getting pregnant, by catholic boys. You didnt see it that much among the protestants

Perhaps that was because non-Catholics were more likely to get abortions? I know that was the case in my home town 30 years ago.

 

[Methodi]

There is no gay gene.

The Catholic church itself says they are born that way thru no fault of their own. I have known many of them & have conversed with them usually asking how they came to be that way.many know from an early age that they are different & so do their peers