The Homosexuality Debate

[Lost_Wanderer]

Catholics CANNOT be neutral on this. That would mean you do not accept the Church’s teaching (See Andruschak’s post quoting the Church’s teaching). To not accept a Church teaching is heresy.

Well then let me clarify. When I mean neutral, I mean I do not explicitly express any political support for or against gay marriage. In short, I basically shut my mouth and walk away when asked to comment on the topic. I actually agree with the Church’s stance but I just don’t think the whiny libs on the other side are gonna buy it, thus I keep my views to myself.

And I highly doubt keeping your trap shut is heresy.

 

[1HOLYAPOSTOLIC]

I’m just a simple person and my response is nothing BUT SIMPLE. I’m trying to keep up with the threads & I’m sure I’m missing details. When it comes to Homosexuality… (AND YOU BELIEVE IN GOD), it simply goes against natural law. Do 2 male deer “go at it” or male birds? No. God created US humans to be fruitful and multiply. We love the sinner, not the sin. We shouldn’t make excuses for them. They are loved by God just as much as us, they MUST be lost and confused, hurt, sad - something. But make no mistake, what they are doing is GRAVE… it IS unatural. It goes against Natural Law - GOD.
I think I take for granted I live in a country were I am FREE to practice my religion. when I see what we have done to the constitution and freedom of speech… the media is doing and what they/ we are filling our childrens head with, it is sad.
We can talk about “laws” and seperation of church and state, but for anyone of any denomination that truly has a love for God, we should take our eyes off HIM or HIS commandments. If we didn’t do that, we wouldn’t be having this discussion - we would be loving the sinner and not fighting for a marriage that shortens and belittles what marriage truly is - MAN AND WOMAN. Just my simple thought

 

[thistle]

Well then let me clarify. When I mean neutral, I mean I do not explicitly express any political support for or against gay marriage. In short, I basically shut my mouth and walk away when asked to comment on the topic. I actually agree with the Church’s stance but I just don’t think the whiny libs on the other side are gonna buy it, thus I keep my views to myself.

And I highly doubt keeping your trap shut is heresy.

Your “neutral” position is now understood although I don’t agree with it. Its copping out when you have a chance to defend your faith.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Your “neutral” position is now understood although I don’t agree with it. Its copping out when you have a chance to defend your faith.

I’m just sick of gay libs playing the victim card first round of the debate. It turns everyone against you and labels you a homophobe all in one fell swoop. It’s both disgusting and far more cowardly than copping out.

 

[PaulinVA]

God created them , I don’t think he created them by accident, so what are they supposed to do Not all Homosexuals are catholic, what do they know about being called to holiness, you know more people in this world dont attend church than do. These people have been since the beginning of time. I do not support same sex marriages, tho I believe Homosexual persons have a large burden to carry, they were created that way thru no fault of their own

“Created that way” is one of the main homosexualist arguments. It denies the Fall of Adam and Eve, and therefore, the need for Christ’s sacrifice on the cross.

If we are all fallen, and not as God intended, through the entrance of Original Sin into the world, then people with same sex attraction, as well as all sinners, have a reason for their sinful tendencies.

We are not as God intended. Sin has entered the world, and corrupted us. That shows up physically and mentally in our lives. That is why Jesus came into the world - to provide a path to once again be as God intended.

 

[Methodi]

“Created that way” is one of the main homosexualist arguments. It denies the Fall of Adam and Eve, and therefore, the need for Christ’s sacrifice on the cross.

If we are all fallen, and not as God intended, through the entrance of Original Sin into the world, then people with same sex attraction, as well as all sinners, have a reason for their sinful tendencies.

We are not as God intended. Sin has entered the world, and corrupted us. That shows up physically and mentally in our lives. That is why Jesus came into the world - to provide a path to once again be as God intended.

I asked my Priest recently, Father, are there some things that are just meant to be, he said absolutely.There are others born afflicted also besides homosexuality, the catholic Catechism explains that Homosexuals are born that way thru no fault of their own. where can they go they are marked people almost like lepers & a lot of them are very fine people. They are God`s children, like it or not

 

[PaulinVA]

I asked my Priest recently, Father, are there some things that are just meant to be, he said absolutely.There are others born afflicted also besides homosexuality, the catholic Catechism explains that Homosexuals are born that way thru no fault of their own. where can they go they are marked people almost like lepers & a lot of them are very fine people. They are God`s children, like it or not

I don’t think that we disagree. Because of the Fall, people are “just born that way”, whether it be with same sex attraction, a predisposition to drink, a proclivity to lie, a need to hurt people, whatever.

Where our thoughts diverge is our response to this. We are ALL, absolutely ALL, God’s children. But all of us sin. We are supposed to answer God’s call, to reform our lives, and to attempt to sin no more.

 

[buffalo]

The Catholic church itself says they are born that way thru no fault of their own. I have known many of them & have conversed with them usually asking how they came to be that way.many know from an early age that they are different & so do their peers

Source?

 

[Methodi]

Source?

The Catechism of the catholic church

 

[Methodi]

The Catechism of the catholic church

 

[buffalo]

The Catechism of the catholic church

Can you provide the reference?

 

[thistle]

The Catechism of the catholic church

Can you provide the section to support your claim?

This is what the Church teaches about homosexuality in the CCC:

Chastity and homosexuality

CCC 2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

CCC 2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

CCC 2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

 

[thistle]

I’m just sick of gay libs playing the victim card first round of the debate. It turns everyone against you and labels you a homophobe all in one fell swoop. It’s both disgusting and far more cowardly than copping out.

Okay. I get it. When faced with a great opportunity you don’t like defending the Faith in the face of adversity or controversy. You run away.

 

[newbetx]

I am Catholic & I do believe God made them for a reason, they are in all the far corners of the earth of all religions. we are all sexual beings, sex is a natural thing that God gave us to enjoy. I once had a friend who thought that they were created as a form of birth control, who Knows what our Mighty God had in mind when he created them. There are also a lot of other mysteries surrounding God

I know of no reference that says God Created Gays.There seems to be no medical evidence that “they” are different than heterosexuals. We are all created with our talents and our failings. Because we have failings doesn’t mean they are to be embraced. We are called to overcome them.

I agree that sex is a wonderful gift from God. But sex is for more than mere enjoyment.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Okay. I get it. When faced with a great opportunity you don’t like defending the Faith in the face of adversity or controversy. You run away.

No. I just don’t like an army of militant homosexuals picketing at my doorstep and asking for my head on a platter.

P.S.

Although if you’re willing to play the ‘tank’ to draw them in whilst I bombard their idiocy from a safe distance then I shall be glad to fight. I can deal with libs if you give me some killer arguments but there’s no point in that if you’re being shouted over ten to one.

 

[Newbie2]

we are all sexual beings, sex is a natural thing that God gave us to enjoy… who Knows what our Mighty God had in mind when he created them. There are also a lot of other mysteries surrounding God

The same logic could be applied to pedophiles, could it not?

Please, catholics are cohabitating long before they are married . Back when I was a youngster , it was all the catholic girls who were getting pregnant, by catholic boys. You didnt see it that much among the protestants

Nope. Protestants don’t have as much premarital sex as Catholics.

Okay. I get it. When faced with a great opportunity you don’t like defending the Faith in the face of adversity or controversy. You run away.

Not all of were meant to be apologists. Not all of us have been given that gift. Best not to judge.

 

[thomfra]

a Catholic does not accept that it is heresy.

Do you know any other songs?

 

[1HOLYAPOSTOLIC]

I’m not sure if I’m replying in the “right” spot. But this forum takes debate to another level. You can’t change anyone’s mind. Skimming through the post’s - that anyone can see. What I’m not sure of - are all of us Catholics? I’m not trying to be smart - I really don’t know. (I thought I was going to a Catholic site for answers). Someone mentioned - something about God and what He had in mind when it came to sex and love (not in exact words)… He did. He made ADAM and He made EVE and he said be FRUITFUL and MULTIPLY. 2 men can’t do that and do women can’t do that - NATURALLY. (it is simple) It is in the childrens bible too. People may not like what others have to say ( especially the more orthadox/conservative folks (not liked), but people didn’t like what Christ had to say - that is why they turned him over …and he did it for us) Now look what we do… try to debate this???
Another question…I DID NOT know the church said there was ANY scientific proof that people are born gay. I thought the church taught (and other studies to back it up as well) that therre is NO proof that you are born gay. BUT it is a cross they will have to carry. - A person feels what they feel. I don’t want to belittle it or dismiss it. WE ALL HAVE crosses to carry, doesn’t mean we legalize it.

 

[buffalo]

…I DID NOT know the church said there was ANY scientific proof that people are born gay…

The church didn’t.

 

[Methodi]

Can you provide the section to support your claim?

This is what the Church teaches about homosexuality in the CCC:

Chastity and homosexuality

CCC 2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

CCC 2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

CCC 2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

2358They do not choose their homosexual condition, for most of them it is a trialCCC1994 version

I did read somewhere else that they are that way thru no fault of their own