The Homosexuality Debate

[Convert07]

I’m a convert to Catholicism who wholeheartedly believes in all of the Church’s teachings. Recently, I’ve been attacked by several people for my stances on “so-called” gay marriage that I had posted to Facebook. I received this message today from someone that I barely know and I was so offended and taken back by her words to me. Most of her points are incorrect because she is a fallen-away Catholic who does not completely understand what the Church teaches, but I feel that I need to answer her email so that she is not completely turned away from the Church. If you received this email, how would you respond?

"I barely know you, but I thought you are a very nice person, so last week when I read what you had to say, my heart grew very heavy and sad for you, and for your friend who was very hurt by your statement *. It’s been a week and I have thought often about what you wrote because I am so shocked that a young mind in today’s world could be so compassionless and lacking understanding. Or most of all so close minded.

"The Bible, was not written by God or Jesus Christ, and it says Jesus Christ was a man who had the courage to stand up for what he believed in, against the “norm” … and none of this is fact, but that is what is says. There is no real evidence other than a book, that mortal men wrote that came together as a collection of stories to give others a margin to live within, to give us guidance; None of our life situations will ever be the same as the book, but we are to use it to relate and apply the overall idea of the story in hopes of an ideal outcome. I noted that Mortal Men wrote this book, meaning… Sinners… people with opinions which means it is biased, and not God’s word. Like ridiculous Leviticus. The fact is, people with like ideas to you, or Leviticus, are the problem with the Catholic religion. As a Catholic myself, it saddens me to see that eventually it will fade away, because it contradicts itself, supports evil things like slavery and stoning women to death, etc., and if you think your God wrote all those things and you still want to pray to him, then I wonder what kind of person you are. When I was a child in CCD, I was told and taught that God is forgiving, loving and accepting, and then I grew up and I heard people like you tell me otherwise. You basically said last week that God is not accepting of two people who bleed like you, think like you, breathe like you, and love like you should have the same legislative rights because some crazy evil man submitted some hateful passages in a book, that someone gave you and told you to believe in. I also saw you write that you wish you were back in your bubble at _______ [this refers to the Catholic college I went to] why? so you can live as a prisoner inside your ignorance? I suppose you probably believe that the United States was founded by Christians, when in reality… it was really founded by men who left a Christian Nation, and created a little thing called the separation of church and state. Which means that the laws created in this country would not be influenced by any religious beliefs. So just because your spiritual belief is against same sex marriage, for you to think that we should consider and cast our votes based on that is disturbing.

"I have three men that I am very close to that happen to be gay. Their families are all Catholic, but with parents who are acknowledging and accepting of their sexual orientation, yet they are all depressed, single and unhappy, because even though they are “out” they walk on eggshells everyday so that they don’t offend people like you, who are not even the slightest bit concerned with offending them. You get to go online and pick men and choose who you love, but you are the people who tell them that they are making a choice to love a man… So if someone told you to choose not to love your boyfriend that you moved across the country to be with… how do you think you would handle that?

"You are a sweet person, and intelligent, far too smart for that ignorant, cold statement you posted last week . Conduct your life by looking at a person’s character, and not with prejudice. Have compassion. You chose who to love, so let other’s do the same, it does not disrupt any part of your life that there is same sex marriage. Also, the Bible notes that women should not speak their thoughts and ideas, basically have no rights… yet we do now… and you are speaking yours for the world to see…even though the Bible said not to."*

 

[AlTheCollegeGal]

I’m a convert to Catholicism who wholeheartedly believes in all of the Church’s teachings. Recently, I’ve been attacked by several people for my stances on “so-called” gay marriage that I had posted to Facebook. I received this message today from someone that I barely know and I was so offended and taken back by her words to me. Most of her points are incorrect because she is a fallen-away Catholic who does not completely understand what the Church teaches, but I feel that I need to answer her email so that she is not completely turned away from the Church. If you received this email, how would you respond?

"I barely know you, but I thought you are a very nice person, so last week when I read what you had to say, my heart grew very heavy and sad for you, and for your friend who was very hurt by your statement *. It’s been a week and I have thought often about what you wrote because I am so shocked that a young mind in today’s world could be so compassionless and lacking understanding. Or most of all so close minded.

"The Bible, was not written by God or Jesus Christ, and it says Jesus Christ was a man who had the courage to stand up for what he believed in, against the “norm” … and none of this is fact, but that is what is says. There is no real evidence other than a book, that mortal men wrote that came together as a collection of stories to give others a margin to live within, to give us guidance; None of our life situations will ever be the same as the book, but we are to use it to relate and apply the overall idea of the story in hopes of an ideal outcome. I noted that Mortal Men wrote this book, meaning… Sinners… people with opinions which means it is biased, and not God’s word. Like ridiculous Leviticus. The fact is, people with like ideas to you, or Leviticus, are the problem with the Catholic religion. As a Catholic myself, it saddens me to see that eventually it will fade away, because it contradicts itself, supports evil things like slavery and stoning women to death, etc., and if you think your God wrote all those things and you still want to pray to him, then I wonder what kind of person you are. When I was a child in CCD, I was told and taught that God is forgiving, loving and accepting, and then I grew up and I heard people like you tell me otherwise. You basically said last week that God is not accepting of two people who bleed like you, think like you, breathe like you, and love like you should have the same legislative rights because some crazy evil man submitted some hateful passages in a book, that someone gave you and told you to believe in. I also saw you write that you wish you were back in your bubble at _______ [this refers to the Catholic college I went to] why? so you can live as a prisoner inside your ignorance? I suppose you probably believe that the United States was founded by Christians, when in reality… it was really founded by men who left a Christian Nation, and created a little thing called the separation of church and state. Which means that the laws created in this country would not be influenced by any religious beliefs. So just because your spiritual belief is against same sex marriage, for you to think that we should consider and cast our votes based on that is disturbing.

"I have three men that I am very close to that happen to be gay. Their families are all Catholic, but with parents who are acknowledging and accepting of their sexual orientation, yet they are all depressed, single and unhappy, because even though they are “out” they walk on eggshells everyday so that they don’t offend people like you, who are not even the slightest bit concerned with offending them. You get to go online and pick men and choose who you love, but you are the people who tell them that they are making a choice to love a man… So if someone told you to choose not to love your boyfriend that you moved across the country to be with… how do you think you would handle that?

"You are a sweet person, and intelligent, far too smart for that ignorant, cold statement you posted last week . Conduct your life by looking at a person’s character, and not with prejudice. Have compassion. You chose who to love, so let other’s do the same, it does not disrupt any part of your life that there is same sex marriage. Also, the Bible notes that women should not speak their thoughts and ideas, basically have no rights… yet we do now… and you are speaking yours for the world to see…even though the Bible said not to."*

Well, the first thing I would say is “Wow, you have an awful lot of time to make judgements over my character based on an innocuous sentence expressing my own personal beliefs!” In actuality, it is truly none of her business; she is entitled to her opinion, and you are entitled to yours. When she gets into making personal attacks on your character is absolutely wrong, and you should just explain to her, “Look, ___. I am a devout and practicing Catholic. I live my faith, and we believe that marriage is a sacrament between a man, a woman, and God. I don’t have to agree with everyone’s actions to care about them as a person. I do not believe that practicing homosexuality is a morally correct thing to do. I believe that marriage is a sacrament, and I do not think that it is appropriate for the government to attempt to redefine the meaning of the word ‘marriage.’ But, the bottom line is this: everyone may do as they please, and I will not judge them for it, as it is not my place. But that doesn’t mean that I have to agree with it.”

 

[edwest2]

I’m a convert to Catholicism who wholeheartedly believes in all of the Church’s teachings. Recently, I’ve been attacked by several people for my stances on “so-called” gay marriage that I had posted to Facebook. I received this message today from someone that I barely know and I was so offended and taken back by her words to me. Most of her points are incorrect because she is a fallen-away Catholic who does not completely understand what the Church teaches, but I feel that I need to answer her email so that she is not completely turned away from the Church. If you received this email, how would you respond?

"I barely know you, but I thought you are a very nice person, so last week when I read what you had to say, my heart grew very heavy and sad for you, and for your friend who was very hurt by your statement *. It’s been a week and I have thought often about what you wrote because I am so shocked that a young mind in today’s world could be so compassionless and lacking understanding. Or most of all so close minded.

"The Bible, was not written by God or Jesus Christ, and it says Jesus Christ was a man who had the courage to stand up for what he believed in, against the “norm” … and none of this is fact, but that is what is says. There is no real evidence other than a book, that mortal men wrote that came together as a collection of stories to give others a margin to live within, to give us guidance; None of our life situations will ever be the same as the book, but we are to use it to relate and apply the overall idea of the story in hopes of an ideal outcome. I noted that Mortal Men wrote this book, meaning… Sinners… people with opinions which means it is biased, and not God’s word. Like ridiculous Leviticus. The fact is, people with like ideas to you, or Leviticus, are the problem with the Catholic religion. As a Catholic myself, it saddens me to see that eventually it will fade away, because it contradicts itself, supports evil things like slavery and stoning women to death, etc., and if you think your God wrote all those things and you still want to pray to him, then I wonder what kind of person you are. When I was a child in CCD, I was told and taught that God is forgiving, loving and accepting, and then I grew up and I heard people like you tell me otherwise. You basically said last week that God is not accepting of two people who bleed like you, think like you, breathe like you, and love like you should have the same legislative rights because some crazy evil man submitted some hateful passages in a book, that someone gave you and told you to believe in. I also saw you write that you wish you were back in your bubble at _______ [this refers to the Catholic college I went to] why? so you can live as a prisoner inside your ignorance? I suppose you probably believe that the United States was founded by Christians, when in reality… it was really founded by men who left a Christian Nation, and created a little thing called the separation of church and state. Which means that the laws created in this country would not be influenced by any religious beliefs. So just because your spiritual belief is against same sex marriage, for you to think that we should consider and cast our votes based on that is disturbing.

"I have three men that I am very close to that happen to be gay. Their families are all Catholic, but with parents who are acknowledging and accepting of their sexual orientation, yet they are all depressed, single and unhappy, because even though they are “out” they walk on eggshells everyday so that they don’t offend people like you, who are not even the slightest bit concerned with offending them. You get to go online and pick men and choose who you love, but you are the people who tell them that they are making a choice to love a man… So if someone told you to choose not to love your boyfriend that you moved across the country to be with… how do you think you would handle that?

"You are a sweet person, and intelligent, far too smart for that ignorant, cold statement you posted last week . Conduct your life by looking at a person’s character, and not with prejudice. Have compassion. You chose who to love, so let other’s do the same, it does not disrupt any part of your life that there is same sex marriage. Also, the Bible notes that women should not speak their thoughts and ideas, basically have no rights… yet we do now… and you are speaking yours for the world to see…even though the Bible said not to."*

This is called passive-aggressive behavior. You are complimented and slapped in the face at the same time. I wouldn’t reply. If she does not understand Catholic teaching or how and under what circumstances the books of the Bible were written then she won’t listen to you.

Leave it alone. She’s not talking about love with understanding. She is just trying to make you think you’re wrong. However, and I’m writing the following for others as well, if you do reply, say that you don’t know me and I don’t know you. And who needs my or your permission to do anything?

Catholics are not against people who know they are gay. Point two: Catholics have no desire to make private sexual activity public. Point three: Catholics are called to contribute no formal cooperation to the disorder of legalized gay sex called “marriage.”

Peace,
Ed

 

[Robertanthony]

Well, the first thing I would say is “Wow, you have an awful lot of time to make judgements over my character based on an innocuous sentence expressing my own personal beliefs!” In actuality, it is truly none of her business; she is entitled to her opinion, and you are entitled to yours. When she gets into making personal attacks on your character is absolutely wrong, and you should just explain to her, “Look, ___. I am a devout and practicing Catholic. I live my faith, and we believe that marriage is a sacrament between a man, a woman, and God. I don’t have to agree with everyone’s actions to care about them as a person. I do not believe that practicing homosexuality is a morally correct thing to do. I believe that marriage is a sacrament, and I do not think that it is appropriate for the government to attempt to redefine the meaning of the word ‘marriage.’ But, the bottom line is this: everyone may do as they please, and I will not judge them for it, as it is not my place. But that doesn’t mean that I have to agree with it.”

This is possibly perfectly worded. I wish I could think that clearly and be that eloquent.

 

[MidnightSun12]

“I have three men that I am very close to that happen to be gay. Their families are all Catholic, but with parents who are acknowledging and accepting of their sexual orientation, yet they are all depressed, single and unhappy, because even though they are “out” they walk on eggshells everyday so that they don’t offend people like you, who are not even the slightest bit concerned with offending them. You get to go online and pick men and choose who you love, but you are the people who tell them that they are making a choice to love a man… So if someone told you to choose not to love your boyfriend that you moved across the country to be with… how do you think you would handle that?”

Here’s how I might respond to this part:

The reason why we are opposing gay marriage is for these men! The Church’s only mandate is to help get souls into heaven and, therefore, our only reason for opposing gay “marriage” must be because it puts souls at risk of going to hell. Who’s souls does it endanger, exactly? It certainly doesn’t endanger the souls of straight people since a straight person would have no use for a gay “marriage”. In fact, the only souls that are endangered by same-sex “marriage” are the souls of same-sex attracted people (and children who will grow up to be same-sex attracted people). Therefore, our opposition to same-sex marriage is based entirely out of a desire to help gay people go to heaven and to prevent them from falling into hell. Can you please explain to me how this fits the description of “compassionless”??

I hope this helps, God bless!

 

[Patrick1540]

Love the sinner and hate the sin.The Op has the right to stand up for the teachings of the Catholic Faith,but we must do it with love and charity. Marriage between a man and women was defined by God, but we must be careful here, when sharing our objections. Jesus told the Jewish people that were going to stone an adulterous “He who has no sin cast the first stone.” when the crowd left he turned to the woman and told her, No one had judged her,so I won’t judge, but go and sin no more. We need to do everything with love, even when we object to it. Goverment has no right, to define marriage, separation of Church and state.But the only way we can stand up to these wrongs, coming all together as a Christian community and challenge these laws all the way to the Supreme Court. I saw on the Today show two gay men adopt a baby. Another women called them,because she was going to have an abortion,but changed her mind when she saw their show.She wanted them to adopt her baby. My point here is, even though they were living in a gay marriage,an abortion was stopped. It got me reflecting on this that they had saved a life. God moves in mysterious ways. Please don’t misunderstand, I stand firm on the Catholic Churches teachings. I feel we can have our voice herd, but we have to do it with charity. I hope this helps. God Bless

 

[JerryZ]

I’m a convert to Catholicism who wholeheartedly believes in all of the Church’s teachings. Recently, I’ve been attacked by several people for my stances on “so-called” gay marriage that I had posted to Facebook. I received this message today from someone that I barely know and I was so offended and taken back by her words to me. Most of her points are incorrect because she is a fallen-away Catholic who does not completely understand what the Church teaches, but I feel that I need to answer her email so that she is not completely turned away from the Church. If you received this email, how would you respond?

"I barely know you, but I thought you are a very nice person, so last week when I read what you had to say, my heart grew very heavy and sad for you, and for your friend who was very hurt by your statement *. It’s been a week and I have thought often about what you wrote because I am so shocked that a young mind in today’s world could be so compassionless and lacking understanding. Or most of all so close minded.

"The Bible, was not written by God or Jesus Christ, and it says Jesus Christ was a man who had the courage to stand up for what he believed in, against the “norm” … and none of this is fact, but that is what is says. There is no real evidence other than a book, that mortal men wrote that came together as a collection of stories to give others a margin to live within, to give us guidance; None of our life situations will ever be the same as the book, but we are to use it to relate and apply the overall idea of the story in hopes of an ideal outcome. I noted that Mortal Men wrote this book, meaning… Sinners… people with opinions which means it is biased, and not God’s word. Like ridiculous Leviticus. The fact is, people with like ideas to you, or Leviticus, are the problem with the Catholic religion. As a Catholic myself, it saddens me to see that eventually it will fade away, because it contradicts itself, supports evil things like slavery and stoning women to death, etc., and if you think your God wrote all those things and you still want to pray to him, then I wonder what kind of person you are. When I was a child in CCD, I was told and taught that God is forgiving, loving and accepting, and then I grew up and I heard people like you tell me otherwise. You basically said last week that God is not accepting of two people who bleed like you, think like you, breathe like you, and love like you should have the same legislative rights because some crazy evil man submitted some hateful passages in a book, that someone gave you and told you to believe in. I also saw you write that you wish you were back in your bubble at _______ [this refers to the Catholic college I went to] why? so you can live as a prisoner inside your ignorance? I suppose you probably believe that the United States was founded by Christians, when in reality… it was really founded by men who left a Christian Nation, and created a little thing called the separation of church and state. Which means that the laws created in this country would not be influenced by any religious beliefs. So just because your spiritual belief is against same sex marriage, for you to think that we should consider and cast our votes based on that is disturbing.

"I have three men that I am very close to that happen to be gay. Their families are all Catholic, but with parents who are acknowledging and accepting of their sexual orientation, yet they are all depressed, single and unhappy, because even though they are “out” they walk on eggshells everyday so that they don’t offend people like you, who are not even the slightest bit concerned with offending them. You get to go online and pick men and choose who you love, but you are the people who tell them that they are making a choice to love a man… So if someone told you to choose not to love your boyfriend that you moved across the country to be with… how do you think you would handle that?

"You are a sweet person, and intelligent, far too smart for that ignorant, cold statement you posted last week . Conduct your life by looking at a person’s character, and not with prejudice. Have compassion. You chose who to love, so let other’s do the same, it does not disrupt any part of your life that there is same sex marriage. Also, the Bible notes that women should not speak their thoughts and ideas, basically have no rights… yet we do now… and you are speaking yours for the world to see…even though the Bible said not to."*

I would also point out to her that her assertion that homosexuality somehow is something novel is badly misinformed. Homosexuality has been an issue since man walked the earth and sometimes it gets badly out of hand.
Look at the fall of the Greek and Roman Empires, it is documented that it was rampant in their final days, in Greece it went as far as involving the use of children.

 

[Crescentinus]

Here’s how I might respond to this part:

The reason why we are opposing gay marriage is for these men! The Church’s only mandate is to help get souls into heaven and, therefore, our only reason for opposing gay “marriage” must be because it puts souls at risk of going to hell. Who’s souls does it endanger, exactly? It certainly doesn’t endanger the souls of straight people since a straight person would have no use for a gay “marriage”. In fact, the only souls that are endangered by same-sex “marriage” are the souls of same-sex attracted people (and children who will grow up to be same-sex attracted people). Therefore, our opposition to same-sex marriage is based entirely out of a desire to help gay people go to heaven and to prevent them from falling into hell. Can you please explain to me how this fits the description of “compassionless”??

I hope this helps, God bless!

 

[Falco]

So many gays try to be what they are not - men undergoing surgery and hormone treatment to become what they think is a woman, women doing the same, people dressing and living as the opposite sex - wanting what they cannot have. Now they want to be married, which is a physical impossibility,as marriage is, and has always been, between a man and a woman.

If the gays invented a new legal option that united two of the same sex, and excluded those of opposite sexes, I think that they would be far more likely to achieve their goals, which really are all about the legal rights and privileges they feel they are missing out on.

Surely it would be better for all to have this newly named state of legal union, which would clearly spell out the sex and union status of people. A conversation could go like this “I’d like you so meet my wife, we were married last month.” “Hello, this is my xxxxxxx (new word for gay spouse), and it’s just a year since our xxxxxxxx (new word for gay civil union).” Everyone then knows the sexual orientation of the people having the conversation, and also knows their legal union status.

 

[katcecelia]

I am leaning toward the opinion that you do not reply, however if I were to reply I would point out that Our country was founded on Judeo-Christian principles, our Constitution *forbids the state ** from establishing a religion, but actually forbids restricting religion. The Bill of Rights actually protects our rights to exercise our religion, including in the public sphere. The phrase “separation of church and state” was used in a letter by Thomas Jefferson, usconstitution.net/jeffwall.html, and simple was used to emphasize that the government should not be involved in religion, except to assure individuals the freedom to practice their beliefs.
I would also point out that she misunderstands that not agreeing with the new law, does not mean that you hate these people. I myself have many lesbian friends. They know I do not condone their behavior, but also know I love them for the wonderful people they are. I just wish the loved themselves and God enough to overcome their attraction. One thing I like to point out is that the Church doesn’t approve of ANY marriages that are not open to procreation…including between heterosexuals (unless the couple is past child-bearing age or it is not known prior to the marriage that the couple cannot have children). As two females or two males do not have the ability to create life together, the Church cannot “approve” any sort of “marriage”. * I may have missed or muddled some situations, please feel free to correct me.
God bless you in this trial.

 

[Convert07]

Thank you, everyone, for your advice! I will take all of your words to heart before I formulate a response to her (if I decide to even reply that is…). Your comments were most helpful!

 

[centurionguard]

This is called passive-aggressive behavior. You are complimented and slapped in the face at the same time. I wouldn’t reply. If she does not understand Catholic teaching or how and under what circumstances the books of the Bible were written then she won’t listen to you.

Leave it alone. She’s not talking about love with understanding. She is just trying to make you think you’re wrong. However, and I’m writing the following for others as well, if you do reply, say that you don’t know me and I don’t know you. And who needs my or your permission to do anything?

Catholics are not against people who know they are gay. Point two: Catholics have no desire to make private sexual activity public. Point three: Catholics are called to contribute no formal cooperation to the disorder of legalized gay sex called “marriage.”

Peace,
Ed

Catholics are not against people who know they are gay. Point two: Catholics have no desire to make private sexual activity public. Point three: Catholics are called to contribute no formal cooperation to the disorder of legalized gay sex called "marriage.

"

 

[dimentichisimai]

OP,

Here is a response that I think opens up the possibility for Evangelization:

"Thank you for sharing your opinion with me. I can tell that you care deeply about this subject having mulled over my status for a week before responding. That shows me a compassion in you that I think we can both agree more people ought to have.

This compassion that we share for our fellow human beings drives our mutual interest in social issues. You and I both want what we believe is best for friends and strangers alike.

Yet we differ in the practical application of the compassion we share. This difference of opinion stems from contrasting worldviews, which, like a prism does light, filters our shared drive to love our neighbor.

But just as red and blue appear equally as vibrant in the color spectrum, so too do our differing opinions appear before the state. As such, we both have a right to voice these views in the public forum, and to push for legislation that applies those beliefs.

Sometimes, our opinions will offend or anger others that do not share our worldview. And although we must practice tact—which I’ll concede to have neglected in my Facebook status—we still have a right to say what we believe.

My worldview comes directly from my Catholic faith—which I believe in its entirety. Yet this was not always so. I grew up Protestant, and came to Catholicism through years of independent research and thinking. I kept an open mind, asked questions, and found Catholicism to be the answer.

No doubt, you have gone through a similar experience in your life, which eventually led you to your understanding of reality, the ultimate purpose of life, and what compassion truly means.

Having established our equal footing and mutual respect, I’d just like to clarify my views that may not have been clear:

1. I believe that homosexual persons share in the same dignity as you and I, and deserve compassion.
2. I do not believe in legislating private sexual acts, and I certainly don’t believe in the state punishing someone for the inclinations that they were born with.
3. I believe that marriage is for procreation and the rearing of children. The state has a responsibility to protect that union to ensure that children grow up to be good citizens. And because I believe that children do best in a family with both biological parents as role models, I believe that the state has a responsibility to encourage that type of family unit.

These beliefs come from my faith. The last point could be used as a secular argument, but social scientists remain divided on such a complex issue, so I defer to my faith.

For more information about the Catholic Church’s stance on homosexuality, here is the passage from the Catechism, just scroll down a bit to the section on it:

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm

Here is a video explaining my view of the Bible, which I fear you also misunderstood:

youtu.be/pP2InFa16D0

Thank you for reading and respecting my different opinion—though you disagree with it. Given our different ways of looking at the world, I think that on this topic in particular, we have to respectfully agree to disagree. But, I appreciate you taking the time to engage in a dialogue with me about something you care about. And I am open to discussing worldviews with you—which is really the point of our contention."

Hope that helps

 

[ett]

Well, the first thing I would say is “Wow, you have an awful lot of time to make judgements over my character based on an innocuous sentence expressing my own personal beliefs!” In actuality, it is truly none of her business; she is entitled to her opinion, and you are entitled to yours. When she gets into making personal attacks on your character is absolutely wrong, and you should just explain to her, “Look, ___. I am a devout and practicing Catholic. I live my faith, and we believe that marriage is a sacrament between a man, a woman, and God. I don’t have to agree with everyone’s actions to care about them as a person. I do not believe that practicing homosexuality is a morally correct thing to do. I believe that marriage is a sacrament, and I do not think that it is appropriate for the government to attempt to redefine the meaning of the word ‘marriage.’ But, the bottom line is this: everyone may do as they please, and I will not judge them for it, as it is not my place. But that doesn’t mean that I have to agree with it.”

This is true, but really making an enforceable law against this kind of marriage, what would be the sentence? It really doesn’t belong in government at all. If we are really faithful about our religion and that our religion is right about anythihng at all, then we will have the power to influence others into it without government force. What are we gonna do, arrest them? The premise for the whole goverment thing on this subject is based on the benefits that are given to married couples that single people do not get, and the reason for them is under debate because those against “gay marriage” see this as stealing the benefits that were to go to their newborn babies, where those for marriage see these benefits as some kind of government reward for being in love. Why would the government provide any kind of financial benefit at all to any kind of couple just as a reward for being in love? That’s crazy. I think to settle this dispute, the government should remove all benefits that support any kind of marriage at all, and let everyone make their own way of life without their interference. If they want to be Catholic, then they will follow Catholic ways, by the influence of Catholic people. This whole debate is stupid.

 

[Pentagramluv3r]

bump

 

[Crescentinus]

First off.
I think gay marriage is perfectly fine.
second,
YOU’RE BASING YOUR LIVES OFF OF A BOOK. I DONT UNDERSTAND.
What are you doing. Theres no heaven, no hell. You’re just hateful people who try to stop other people from living their lives. its annoying.

I’m not sure if you’re a Catholic or if you’re familiar with Catholic teaching.

 

[EuryTheWithheld]

Well, I do take homosexuality personally. So I would like to say a few things.

Being a person who has had homosexual tendencies and trangendered tendancies I would like to state a view point of mine.

Though we mostly hear from the pro-gay side claim that their opponents derive from only religious [viewed as emotional] argumentation, I see semi-otherwise. It was the understanding that my christian belief does not accept a homosexualized beliefs that made me wonder weither or not homosexuality itself is right or not.

It is taught that homosexuality is undeniably a right. Yet it is based on only an emotion. Much like the claim that the right of life is based on the emotion of wanting. If it is wanted, if it is needed, if it feels good, then it is right. But how do I know this is truly right? How do I know I am not being selfish? I would constantly wonder about the morality during my transgendered years.

I always wanted it to be right. And realized over time that I was forcing my reasoning to fit transgenderism into my life.

As I joined a group and learned from them. I came to acceptance. But I was never given a solid basis for why transgenderism and homosexuality is even right at all.

All I ever seen in GBLT support groups was the same repetition. We are persecuted, we are righteous, we are living persons. We must accept GBLT, for that is ourself, and that is what will set us free. By becoming full time (coming out of the closet), the shame (guilt) will become light, and we will experience the joy of being GBLT.

But all I ever heard was preaching of acceptance, never why this is right.

I remember when I was in school. A philosphor (whos name I forgot) stating for the existance of a round world once said, science must prove the bible, if there is a contradiction, then we must have read it wrong.

So I thought to myself. Maybe there’s a reason why homosexuality is bad itself. (Refering to a reason that is not just by commandment but by worldy repercussion.)

So I finally decided to ask questions within the group. I was often told to read certain books inorder to find answers. Of course they didn’t help much. I just couldn’t take a book that states the reasoning for acceptance of non hetrosexual “love” is based upon the existance of non hetrosexual “love” and uses beastiality as an example of “love.”

Interestingly, alot of people in the GBLT community lie to their teeth more than what we really expect. I literally found the majority within the group to have some doubt on their wanted sexuality. If anything, there was only one person who had no doubt they were born this way. And even had pictures of when he/she was a newborn, being clothes in clothing of the opposite sex. So it really could be interpreted as for or against him/her. Since one could state she/he was raised to be GBLT and not born that way.

I found that alot within the group do think about weither they are doing the right thing or not. But feel more bound to follow through with it. Some have a feeling of responsibility to their kind (as if sexual orientation were a new species) while others did it out of shear addiction.

As I progressed into transgenderism, I grew with more complaints. I felt more pain, more depression, more suicidal, more aggrevated. I had constantly complained if this was right, why do we feel this way, why am I having trouble with certain personal things I should be embracing? I would only be told that it was something they all just had to deal with over time.

The more I allowed transgenderism into my life, the more I used my own body and weared it out. But I found that nothing was satisfying a need I had inside.

I don’t fully understand my time as through transgenderism and homosexuality, but I do remember something strange. I remember one day, I had gotten up and realized something. I realized I was not a female, I am a male. I realized that I was damaging my body trying to make it female, trying to use it as a female.

The easiest way to explain it was as though I came back to life. Because I know I was dead during that time. If my soul were a fire, I was out and wet, there was nothing left but the stones and mud. And then it felt like a small smoke came out of me. I was literally dead inside, I was miles below ground. Something inside knew that this body did not belong to her. Something made me want to live again.

 

[EuryTheWithheld]

During my time as a transgender, I had constantly prayed. Repeating the same hope. Although I do not pray as much now, and even feel strained, I sometimes wonder if it was even real at all. If so, was I lead out?

So now I take all things GBLT personally (not to be confused with forcefully.) And what I have learned is this.

There exists people who want something more than anything else in the world. There are people who would rather have others die to have their dreams come true. I personally have argued witht hem, and all they see is free gender alteration surgery as a right, even at the cost of lives. They do not care who loses or who stays in power or who is persecuted, all they want is to live a joyfull life and ignore all discomfort.

Non hetrosexual orientation contradicts the human body and person. Mentally, the person who follows through with this must warp their own mind to fit the set wanted. Although this tactic is used by GBLT and non GBLT minded persons, one in the GBLT must always force their reasoning to fit their desires. This is due to GBLT being only emotion supported and limitation of self evaluation (especially in developing persons/coming out-in the closest status.) Physicially, the person must accept actions the human body was not intented for (based upon the definition of natural being that which is supposed not that which is normal.) This itself can cause physical damage and even becomes similar to masochist tendencies. I am self witness to this.

GBLT contradicts its own self philosphically. Within the realm of homosexuality and bi sexuality one is taught that one is born this way. One can not change their preset sexuality, for they are made this way (dispite no actual scientific proof for this.) Within the realm of transgenderism, however, we see a different philosphy. One learns about how one follows what one feels is right for that is what is truly right. Because transgenders can develope, change, choose, or become a different sexuality, most transgenders leave sexuality as a vague or unimportant subject matter. What is important is to be yourself and have fun. Dispite transgender persons undergoing hormone treatment and developing adverse sexual tendencies. What was once a straight crossdressing man becomes a homosexual crossdressing or transsexual man. As well we would see person even choose a sexuality, even go as far as to joke about it and claim to be omnisexual. And even go as far as to prove it.

I do suppose that I’ve always just wanted to speak out about such matters. Of course I do not believe that GBLT are monsters. I take these subjects personally because I have gone through them. If anything, I see them as my family. As far as to worry about them.

 

[Faithdancer]

This is called passive-aggressive behavior. You are complimented and slapped in the face at the same time. I wouldn’t reply. If she does not understand Catholic teaching or how and under what circumstances the books of the Bible were written then she won’t listen to you.

Leave it alone. She’s not talking about love with understanding. She is just trying to make you think you’re wrong. However, and I’m writing the following for others as well, if you do reply, say that you don’t know me and I don’t know you. And who needs my or your permission to do anything?

Catholics are not against people who know they are gay. Point two: Catholics have no desire to make private sexual activity public. Point three: Catholics are called to contribute no formal cooperation to the disorder of legalized gay sex called “marriage.”

Peace,
Ed

Yup, right again, Mr. West and my compliments of the day to you, sir!

 

[Faithdancer]

I’m not sure if you’re a Catholic or if you’re familiar with Catholic teaching.

Hmm, the user name would suggest otherwise, but perhaps clarification will be forthcoming.