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paramedicgirl
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Yes. I meant to correct that but I was too late.
The horrible truth about euthenasia and organ donation/harvesting
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JimG
Guest
And apparently the reason that paralysis drugs are given is to keep the patient from flinching and contorting while being opened up without benefit of anesthesia. That can be quite disconcerting to nurses and medical personnel. Please, if my organs are to be taken while I’m still breathing, I’d like the anesthesia in addition to the paralysis drugs.
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Courtneyjo
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I think that anesthesia isn’t given because the body will metabolize it, a process that can take from minutes to hours. And they don’t want to transplant a liver that has partially metabolized meds in it. It can cause the transplant to fail. Besides, the logic is that the patient is “brain dead”, therefore the patient doesn’t feel pain, so why waste good money on pain meds. And all that flinching is just an autonomic reflex, it doesn’t mean anything. Like breathing.
Heaven help us!
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Eileen_T
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Unpaired vital organs are only useful for transplant while the donor is alive.
CCC#2296 Organ donation after death is a noble and meritorious act and to be encouraged as an expression of generous solidarity. It is not morally acceptable if the donor or his proxy has not given explicit consent.
After death is the important part to note. That is why death was re-defined to allow ‘brain death’ as a legal definition of death, to allow surgeons to take organs out people who were still actually alive.
I also mentioned the moves to amend the definition of death to classify those in irreversible coma and PVS as dead. This would give access to more organs than are now available.
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paramedicgirl
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Eileen T:
So the CC does not allow vital organ donation then? Or has the definition of death to mean brain death been accepted by the Church? Sorry, but I am still unclear on the Church’s position.
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Bella3502
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liberal friend:
It sounds like you don’t really know what you are talking about. Are you a medical doctor?
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manualman
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This thread is a beautiful example of why NOT to inform all your opinions based on what you read on the internet!
Seems to me like people are confusing two very different issues.
I do think it selfish to refuse to consider donation. If the drivers license thing scares you, just talk it out with your family and leave the approval up to them. But it would be sinfully selfish to doom another to death over an organ you don’t need anymore anyways.
I would imagine it would be tough to meet a guy in heaven (or maybe prugatory) and find out that he died before his kid turned 1 because you wanted to be buried with all your parts…
Seems to me like people are confusing two very different issues.
- It is , in fact, possible to keep a ‘dead’ person breathing and his heart pumping for a respectable amount of time. REmoving organs from someone who consented to this before death and whose family consents at the time is not morally problematic at all. If a person is in such condition that removal of extraordinary means would immediately result in death and there is no reasonable prospect for improvement, it is moral to turn the machines off. A heart removed at that moment is perfectly acceptable for donation.
- This doesn’t mean that there WON’T be some who try to push the boundaries and kill ‘imperfect’ people for their healthy organs. We DO need to be vigilant against this.
I do think it selfish to refuse to consider donation. If the drivers license thing scares you, just talk it out with your family and leave the approval up to them. But it would be sinfully selfish to doom another to death over an organ you don’t need anymore anyways.
I would imagine it would be tough to meet a guy in heaven (or maybe prugatory) and find out that he died before his kid turned 1 because you wanted to be buried with all your parts…
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vern_humphrey
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liberal friend:
Humans can also have after-death muscle contractions and twitches.
Now, surgery to remove an organ is very delicate. Muscle twitches can occur long after death, and such a twitch will ruin the organ if it occurs at the wrong time. The anesthetic is given to prevent such aftger-death muscular contractions
Have you ever taken a course in biology where you dissected a frog? Did they show you how a frog will jerk and twitch, even after its head is cut off? Have you ever heard the expression “run around like a chicken with it’s head cut off?” I assure you from personal experience that a chicken will run quite a ways after it’s head is cut off.
Humans can also have after-death muscle contractions and twitches.
Now, surgery to remove an organ is very delicate. Muscle twitches can occur long after death, and such a twitch will ruin the organ if it occurs at the wrong time. The anesthetic is given to prevent such aftger-death muscular contractions
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wcknight
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Personally I think it’s awfully selfish not to be a donor.
Sure there may be abuses, but for the most part folks are dead/ brain dead by the time their organs are harvested.
Doctors who abuse this may be murderers, but far more good comes from this than the potential for abuses.
IF I am in a fatal accident and I’m essentially brain dead, if my organs can help save someone else’s life or allow a blind person to see then by all means harvest whatever you can.
We can not let fear rule our lives. There is always the possibility of someone abusing the system. When God says my time is up, I have no qualms about helping someone else out. IF my time were not up, I would not have gotten into a fatal accident in the first place.
Who knows the very decision to help someone with your organs could be the factor that saves you a significant amount of time in Purgatory OR it may be the difference between Heaven/Purgatory and you know where…
wc
Sure there may be abuses, but for the most part folks are dead/ brain dead by the time their organs are harvested.
Doctors who abuse this may be murderers, but far more good comes from this than the potential for abuses.
IF I am in a fatal accident and I’m essentially brain dead, if my organs can help save someone else’s life or allow a blind person to see then by all means harvest whatever you can.
We can not let fear rule our lives. There is always the possibility of someone abusing the system. When God says my time is up, I have no qualms about helping someone else out. IF my time were not up, I would not have gotten into a fatal accident in the first place.
Who knows the very decision to help someone with your organs could be the factor that saves you a significant amount of time in Purgatory OR it may be the difference between Heaven/Purgatory and you know where…
wc
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rayne89
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Thank you to the last few posters I was beginning to lose hope. I can’t debate this subject with people though. I get too emotional.
God Bless.
God Bless.
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JimG
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A discussion of brain death can be found here.
For assistance with individual situations, the National Catholic Bioethics Center can be very helpful.
For assistance with individual situations, the National Catholic Bioethics Center can be very helpful.
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st_ignatius110
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To all here. Please do not fail to forget the harvesting of aborted babies organs and body parts. It has been proven many of these babies are actually kept alive, transported in freezer trucks, and sent to science labs where there little hearts, brains etc can be experimented on, until they die. There is first hand reports from “nurses” who did these things in the labs.
God have mercy on our babies.
God have mercy on our babies.
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vern_humphrey
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But let’s not lose sight of the point here – to donate one’s organs is a licit and moral act, approved by the Church.
The fact that people commit horrible grisly crimes associated with harvesting and illegally selling organs doesn’t make organ donation wrong, any more that abortion makes pregnancy wrong.
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st_ignatius110
Guest
I agree, of course. Just that we are talking about donating organs while people are still alive. I want to point out that this can very well happen simply because of the fact unborn babies are kept alive only to experiment on. Once you are helpless, you have no value to society or doctors unless it involves organ harvesting or experimental procedures.
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vern_humphrey
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Which is why it is incumbent on us to work to change society and the law. If the Church had come out strongly against abortion – pulling out all the stops – 30 years ago, there would be no legal abortion in this country.
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st_ignatius110
Guest
Which is why I am involved with the Pro Life movement and do sidewalk counseling at abortion clinics. I totally agree.
I will say I think even if the Church pulled out all the stops regarding abortion, there would still be abortion. Why? Because of birth control.
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vern_humphrey
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I think we have to look at birth control and abortion as two different issues. If the Catholic Church had made it plain that no Catholic can support abortion, and refused communion to those politicians and judges that supported it, that would have tipped the balance.
But when we take 30+ years and still can’t decide if abortion is all that bad, what can we expect?
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Bella3502
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Can you provide a link to some of these “first hand reports?”
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st_ignatius110
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I have the book at home and will either post this weekend or on Monday. Many of the articles etc are in science and medicine publications which go around the world to different doctors and practioners.
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st_ignatius110
Guest
I think the Catholic Church has always made it plain that abortion is wrong. That murder is wrong. Birth control and abortion are intrinsically linked. Those who promoted and created birth control are the same who promoted abortion. Those who wanted to wipe out the Black and Hispanic races through birth control are the same ones who put Planned Parenthood centers and abortion clinics in the poorest neighborhoods and inner cities. The Catholic Church made it very clear that birth control was wrong. The people decided to go against that. They decided to listen to theologians instead of the Church. And from birth control abortion neccessarily follows.
I will be honest and say I am not sure what this comment means.
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