The horrors of communist China under Mao Zedong that most Westerners don't know about

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It would be virtually impossible to top the brutality scale of the slaughtering of roughly 65 million of his own people and all other structural damages to his own country. Few people could even imagine that it actually happened. Any number below it, or less damages done upon the country, could be seen as an improvement. But to use this “improvement” argument to defend (or put it in any good light) the current China communist regime in any shape or form is just simply lame and wrong. Yes, although there have been some significant reforms within China’s Communist party in recent decades, it is still the very same communist party that Mao started. Mao is very much celebrated as a revolutionary and a national hero in China. If anyone disagrees, then try this experiment: Go to China today, start a bad mouthing campaign against Mao there and mention the actual brutality that he did, and see what will happen to you. It would be a good bet that your country diplomats would be powerless to rescue you.

China’s structural improvements and its economic, political and military emergence into the international scene have been no less than impressive. There is no dispute with that. In most measures, Xi has done a very good job of bringing prosperity to China. But if you pay enough attention to China’s politics recently, it is quite disburbing to see how Xi has consolidated powers in China—giving him so much more power nearing that of a dictator… Sounds familiar??? Today, political and religious dissidents are being sent to prisons and labor camps with little expection of becoming free. I would caution those who are quick to jump in to join the China’s wagon and provide support and defense for communist China. The current ruling regime in China is communist through and through.
 
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Randolph said:
But to use this “improvement” argument to defend (or put it in any good light) the current China communist regime in any shape or form is just simply lame and wrong.
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It’s a verifiable fact, why is it lame and wrong?

Neither people nor countries change in an instant, it’s a journey and we should support people moving in a positive direction.
 
The fact that they keep this dude under glass, says a lot about who they were, who they are, and what might possibly be again.
 
Theo520… Take a moment and imagine this scenario:

If Hitler not just murdered 7 million Jews and a million political and religious prisoners, but actually murdered 8 times those numbers (65 million people); if Hilter triumphed in World War II and was never defeated; if Hitler died a natural death; if Germany today is still the very same Nazi Germany that Hilter started; if the Gestapos are still rounding up political and religious dissenters today as we speak and sending them to their death; if Hitler is still now celebrated as a revolutionary and a national hero; if Hitler’s tomb is under glass and is revered as national monument and a national treasure; if the Naxis are still ruling Germany; if anyone in Germany criticizes Hitler or the current Nazi regime would be put to jail…

Now, I want you to really think about this before answering… Would you, in good conscience, put the current Nazi German regime in any good light because of some verifiable facts and/or because of some economic dialogues/trades that benefit Nazi Germany itself are moving forward???
 
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Your analogy fails badly.

China today is not the exact same as the ‘great leap forward’ China of many decades past. Maybe it was done for selfish reasons, but their citizens have significantly greater freedom than in Mao’s era.

I was very clear in an earlier post. I think we should encourage positive movements by such governments. We have neither the means nor the will to replace their bad governance with our ‘superior oversight’.
 
Just to be clear, there was no “slaughter” as such, and no one is quite certain how much Mao knew of what was going on on the ground. It was a catastrophic economic policy and there is some suggestion that local officials were to frightened to let Beijing know what was happening. To this day all we have our estimates, and if the Chinese government knows how many people died, they’re not telling.
 
If there was no “slaughter” as you claimed, how did the millions of people die during the Mao’s Grea Leap Forward and the Hundreds Flowers campaign? Did they voluntarily plunge into the own deaths while Mao was working hard to move China forward? In your opinion, was Mao even at all responsible for their death?

Yes, the 65 million deahs was an estimate. Tell me what war in history that the number of deaths was an exact number? If not, an good estimate… Other than you and a handful of Mao sympathizers (I am not saying that you are), this estimate is fairly close and is generally agreed upon.

Do you have reasons/evidences to doubt the 65 million number? I would like to hear it. Even if you low ball the estimate to 10 million deaths, would that make Mao less of an evil tyrant? Would that make the death of the people who were slaughtered/killed/murdered less important? And the sufferings of their families and loved ones less tragic?
 
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No, you are wrong…It is true that current communist China regime may not be killing tens of millions of people as they did during the Mao’s era, and China today is much, much more prosperous and free. But, my analogy correctly described what Mao did, and Communist China regime today is the very same regime that Mao founded. If you dispute any of my facts, I would like to hear it. In fact, the current regime celebrates him, reveres him and immortalizes him. Political and religious dissidents/dissenters today are being sent to labor camps without explanations (let alone due process) and with little expectation of becoming free. China is one of the worst human rights violators on the planet. Need I go on??


In my earlier posts, I pointed out that the Church has a long successful, at times very difficult, history of dialoging and working with civil authority to promote harmony and the peace of Christ. Karol Wojtyla was particularly brilliant at that. This is a good thing and must continue. The same holds true for international diplomacy. It’s always a good thing to positively move forward via dialogues and diplomacy. But it is foolish and and outright irresponsible to ignore history (or lessen its lessons) for the sake of good natureness and/or political expediency. Let’s hope this horrible chapter in China history and in human history will never be repeated…
 
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Tens of millions of Chinese people voluntarily starved themselves to death!!! It was Mao who starved them!!! What about Mao’s responsibility??? How did people die during the Hundred Flowers campaign?

Absolute rubbish!!!
 
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My misunderstanding and my apology… Indeed, most of them were starved to death.
 
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Randolph said:
No, you are wrong…It is true that current communist China regime may not be killing tens of millions of people as they did during the Mao’s era, and China today is much, much more prosperous and free. But, my analogy correctly described what Mao did, and Communist China regime today is the very same regime that Mao founded. If you dispute any of my facts, I would like to hear it. In fact, the current regime celebrates him, reveres him and immortalizes him. Political and religious dissidents/dissenters today are being sent to labor camps without explanations (let alone due process) and with little expectation of becoming free. China is one of the worst human rights violators on the planet. Need I go on??
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ROFL,
you said I was wrong, then you wrote a post confirming what i said.
Modern China is definitely not the Mao China
It is not the ‘exact same’ as your analogy stipulated.

Don’t confuse people supporting the progress they have made with being in love with who they are.
There are many many authoritarian regimes in the world and we don’t have a magic wand that makes them nice. We have to work with what we got.
 
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My posts speak for themselves. I don’t know how else to explain to you. You don’t seem to understand the “but” part from the very quote you quoted me:

“…But, my analogy correctly described what Mao did, and Communist China regime today is the very same regime that Mao founded. If you dispute any of my facts, I would like to hear it. In fact, the current regime celebrates him, reveres him and immortalizes him. Political and religious dissidents/dissenters today are being sent to labor camps without explanations (let alone due process) and with little expectation of becoming free. China is one of the worst human rights violators on the planet. Need I go on??”

Since Mao died in 1976, it would be impossible to expect the regime to be “exactly” the way he founded. I trust you understand an analogy, by definition, is not intended to be exact, but merely illustrates a similar circumstance.

I recalled a tragic event not too long ago in the 1990’s. A massacre in Tiananmen Square that killed innocent students protesting for democracy in China. Students were shot dead point blank. I would say that it was a Mao like behavior by the current Chinese regime.

 
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The fact is that there is a great deal we do not know about the Great Leap Forward. We know many local and provincial officials lied to their superiors about the extent of the famine, which suggests the central authority was not fully apprised of both the agricultural calamity or the absolutely useless iron being produced in the towns and villages. I’m not trying to absolve Mao of blame, quite the opposite. He was an economic illiterate who had been literally handed the keys to the kingdom and for a period, particularly after the deterioration of relations with the Soviet Union, Mao held near absolute power.

What we do know is that as Provincial officials became unwilling or unable to hide the extent of the famine from senior Party officials, the full extent of Mao’s incompetence and possible apathy towards the suffering and death of millions was revealed. At that point Mao was sidelined, not quite impotent but certainly considerably more checks on his authority.
 
So we agree they are an authoritarian regime that can be ruthless in efforts to hold onto power. Don’t imply I think otherwise. In fact I haven’t seen any poster here imply otherwise.

How do you propose we change the hearts and minds of their leadership, or the leadership of the many many authoritarian regimes around the world?

If we can’t wave a wand and change their hearts, how do you propose we empower the populace to bring about change?

I believe the standard accepted practice in diplomacy is to first push for economic freedoms.
 
How many people did the Shah and Pinochet’s secret police murder? Authoritarian regimes are ruthless, and yet the West had few qualms supporting friendly tyrants. I’m not trying to create an equivalency, but China is only worse than, say, Franco’s Spain because China has a much larger populace.
 
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