The Hunger Games

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All right. I’ll describe Penam.

From the book:
  1. District 12, Katniss’s District, has 8,000 people. Everybody seems to live close enough together so that everyone knows everyone, and they can all gather together for the “reaping” in a short time. Nobody is allowed to go anywhere; electric fences keep them in the village. District 12 cannot be more than five miles wide.
  2. In the second book, District 11 is described as being much larger. But since District 12 seems to provide all the coal for the whole country, the overall population can’t be in the millions.
  3. But there is a 250 mph high speed train that takes Katniss from District 12 in Appalachia to the Capitol in the Rocky Mountains. There is also television. These technologies require huge industrial bases to support. Columnist George Will pointed out that it requires a vast industrial complex with thousands of people trained in thousands of skills to make and maintain everything needed to manufacture a pencil.
  4. The Capitol is a huge city, possibly having millions of people. The people are idle rich, who produce nothing. The wealth can’t begin to be supplied by the twelve districts who have almost nothing.
  5. In the book, Katniss mentions that one year the Hunger Games were held in an Arctic region where the tributes quickly froze to death. Another year they were held in a desert where the tributes quickly died of thirst.
So here’s what Penam looks like.

It is twelve population centers spread out in a line from Appalachia, dipping down to the Gulf of Mexico for fishing, and back up to the Capitol. Each district is only a few miles wide and surrounded by vast unpopulated wildernesses.

But the twelve Districts are not all there is on North America. In fact, there are two thousand or more districts all over North America. The people of Penam know nothing about all the rest of North America. There’s no way for them to find out; they can’t leave their village.

Even the people of the Capital don’t know there is anything else except Penam. Only President Snow and a few advisors know.

All the hundreds of Districts controlled by the Capitol get television coverage of the Hunger Games. The people in these other districts only know that the 24 tributes come from twelve other Districts, but the people don’t know where the districts are, or how many districts there are in all. ( Having two tributes from each district would result in hundreds of kids in the Games, telling all the people how large the country is. This might lead to rebellion. The “divide and conquer” rule applies here. ) The threat of being added to the list of districts that yield tributes to the Games keeps all the other districts subdued.

One Capitol could not control the entire continent and keep all the human and material resources needed secret. There is more than one Capitol. Each controls several hundred Districts. There are in effect a dozen countries on the continent, all with similar dictatorships. They cooperate with each other to keep the population under control.

A vast train system covers the continent. There has to be some exchange of goods from one region to another because no single region can maintain high technology, but the trains travel through the wilderness between districts, and people on the trains learn nothing about the rest of North American civilization other then their own districts.

President Snow worries that if there is a rebellion in Penam and the people take over the Capitol, the truth about North America’s vast population will get out to everybody,
and everything will change.

The key to keeping the whole system together it the “divide and conquer” strategy. Keep the people separated in small groups ignorant of each other and they can’t organize. You keep them under control.
 
Not to nitpick, but it’s driving me crazy… it’s Panem, not “Penam.” 🙂
Oops! :eek:

It should be *PENA *m because the whole country is like a PENAL colony. 😃

( Yeah, I know, it’s the Latin word for bread. )

Anyways, I came up with a design for North America’s organization which would work. :newidea:

unlike people’s maps in which there is only one human being for every 100 square miles. :bigyikes:
 
Okay, so I finally got a chance to see the film over the weekend. Overall I liked it though it got a little rushed at the end. Though Jen Lawrence did a great job portraying Katniss, not just how in terms of looks, but her personality, even though we don’t hear her inner thoughts like we do in the book. Josh Hutcherson was adorable as Peeta. Liam was okay as Gale but he really didn’t get too many lines. Also thought that those who hadn’t read the book would be confused over what exactly was going on between Peeta and Katniss. Book readers know Peeta does have sincere feelings for Katniss, while she’s quite confused about her feelings, but I’m not sure a movie-goer would really get that. Movie Peeta seemed more suspicious of Katniss’s motives than in the book. However, considering what happens between them in the later books (especially Book 3), it might not be a bad direction for the movie-verse to go in.

FYI for other posters: empther’s theory on how Panem is organized is just that, a theory. SC did a lot of things right with the series, but she left a lot of gaps in the world-building. Also, the later two books are much darker, and in terms of target audience, although all the books are supposed to be for grade 7 and up, I’m not sure the average 12-13 year old would really understand the last book, Mockingjay, which is very dark and depressing. There is an important message about the real impact of war, and violence in general, on those who committ violent acts, even if they can be justified, which I appreciate. However the book can be difficult to get through because it’s through the POV of Katniss, who spends most of the book in a progressive downward spiral psychologically. The movie version might actually be less depressing, assuming whoever directs it stays away from the voice-over much like the first movie did.

BTW, the country is named “Panem” for a reason, as in “panem et circenses”, which is a reference to ancient Rome using “bread and circuses” to appease the population. The parallels to ancient Rome are pretty obvious in the story, most of the characters that come from the central “Capitol” city have Roman-sounding names. As well as the whole idea of “bread” as a symbol of hope. I also think think there are deliberate parellels between Peeta, “the boy with the bread”, and St. Peter the apostle. Although I don’t personally think the author meant for the story to be a Christian allegory, I think she incorporated material from a lot of sources. But those who are interested in that reading of the Hunger Games can check out John Granger’s Hogwarts Professor blog (I don’t have the URL but it should be easy to do a search for it.)
 
FYI for other posters: empther’s theory on how Panem is organized is just that, a theory. SC did a lot of things right with the series, but she left a lot of gaps in the world-building.

She certainly did leave gaps, most notably how a country of so few people could maintain the vast industrial base needed to support high technology and a gee-whiz transcontinental high speed train system. My solution: there are many times as many people in North America than the people are told of.
Keeping the people ignorant is the foundation of the government’s power.​

Names.
President Snow reflects the snow capped Rocky Mountains where the Capitol is.

Peeta probably doesn’t reflect St. Peter.
“Pita”, pronounced pee-tah, is a word for several things, a kind of bread made in Greece, a class of plant fibers, and an eating disorder in which people feel compelled to eat strange things like sand or paper.
 
Oops! 😊

In the 1964 movie Seven Days in May, the top U.S. military generals plot to overthrow the government of the United States.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Days_in_May#Deleted_scene
Thanks to an alert Colonel, the plot is discovered and the President forces the generals to resign before the takeover can take place.

Is this plausible? Would the soldiers in the Army support a general who had kicked out the President and Congress? Can anyone imagine the Navy Seals and other super-patriotic groups supporting this military dictatorship?

I completed the second book of the Hunger Games trilogy, Catching Fire, and am now into the third: Mockingjay. There is a rebellion, using Katniss as a symbol of resistance. In Chapter 6, there is this surprising exchange:
“If we win, who would be in charge of the government?” Gale asks.
“Everyone,” Plutarch tells him. “We’re going to form a republic where the people of each district and the Capitol can elect their own representatives to be their voice in a centralized government. Don’t look so surprised; it’s worked before.”
“In books,” Haymitch mutters.
“In history, “ says Plutarch, “and if our ancestors could do it, then we can too.”
Katniss thinks:
Frankly, our ancestors don’t seem much to brag about. I mean, look at the state they left us in, with the wars and the broken planet. Clearly, they didn’t care about what would happen to the people who came after them. But this republic idea sounds like an improvement over our current government.
Oops! 😊

So the people in The Hunger Games weren’t so ignorant after all. They knew there was something very different before Panem.

Is this plausible? Could the United States degenerate into something as oppressive as North Korea if the people remember how things were before?

I’m a little disappointed in author Suzanne Collins’s premise.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by empther
forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif

America is the last bastion of Puritanism.

:rotfl:

Dude, the US makes more porn than we do!

Oh, really? :rolleyes:
I visited London thirty years ago. I saw disgusting porno openly displayed in store front windows for anybody to see from the sidewalk.
No, this wasn’t adult book stores in some dark alley. It was storefronts in Piccadilly Circus, a famous tourist attraction.

Nice going, Brits! :mad:
 
Oh, really? :rolleyes:
I visited London thirty years ago. I saw disgusting porno openly displayed in store front windows for anybody to see from the sidewalk.
No, this wasn’t adult book stores in some dark alley. It was storefronts in Piccadilly Circus, a famous tourist attraction.

Nice going, Brits! :mad:
Lots of tourists visit the red light district, as Jharek mentions. Such as yourself, it seems.
 
Lots of tourists visit the red light district, as Jharek mentions. Such as yourself, it seems.
( This reminds me of a dictator like President Snow telling endless lies to the people to keep them subdued. :mad: )

Your feeble attempts to make it look llike something it isn’t won’t work.

Not the red light district! :eek:
Piccadilly Circus. And not down some sidestreet from the central square which is described as the British “Times Square”. The storefronts were right in the square, where postcard photgraphs are taken of all the signs and lights, where little old lady grandmother type tourists walk around with their grandchildren.
 
I doubt that, I know that area of London well. I worked there for most of a decade and know that area of London well from my youth. But it is off topic in any case.

Hmmm. 16,637 posts since April 14, 2008. That’s 11.4 posts per day.

No job, hunh?
 
LemonAndLime’s post #161
Originally Posted by empther
Hmmm. 16,637 posts since April 14, 2008. That’s 11.4 posts per day.

No job, hunh?

Post reported.

Don’t forget to report post #156 in which (name removed by moderator) accused me of visiting the red light district, and post #157 in which you also accused me of visiting the red light district, and post #159 in which (name removed by moderator) said he doubted what I said about only visitiing the main square of Piccadilly Circus, not any street coming off it.

You’re not like the two young English women I worked with in the Army in Gernany thirty years ago. They were nice and polite.
 
LemonAndLime’s post #161

Don’t forget to report post #156 in which (name removed by moderator) accused me of visiting the red light district, and post #157 in which you also accused me of visiting the red light district, and post #159 in which (name removed by moderator) said he doubted what I said about only visitiing the main square of Piccadilly Circus, not any street coming off it.

You’re not like the two young English women I worked with in the Army in Gernany thirty years ago. They were nice and polite.
Sorry to disappoint you, but we’re not all the same. I suppose the suggestion that I am not nice and polite is because I am disagreeing with you and am offended at you insulting my Irish friend. :rolleyes:

Perhaps you should accept that Jharek and I, as people who are living in this country (he lives in London, I have visited there at least yearly for the last 10 years) might know London better than yourself, considering you last visited 30 years ago?
 
I just finished Mockingjay, the third book in the Hunger Games trilogy.
It was a great read. But I wonder how they could make a movie about it and get it rated PG-13.

There are many references to torture of Peeta, Joanna and other teenagers. Katniss runs a gauntlet in which she’s frequently injured and an explosion kills many children including Prim. This is pretty disturbing stuff for a ten year old.

The Hunger Games movie wasn’t constant batlling, explosions and killing like Mockingjay. I seriously quesiton whether the Mockinjay movie will ever be made. It would probably get an R rating which would kill the box office revenues. No middle schools getting out early to go see the first showing of Mockingjay, as happened for Hunger Games at a couple of schools close to where I live.
 
The Hunger Games movie wasn’t constant batlling, explosions and killing like Mockingjay. I seriously quesiton whether the Mockinjay movie will ever be made. It would probably get an R rating which would kill the box office revenues. No middle schools getting out early to go see the first showing of Mockingjay, as happened for Hunger Games at a couple of schools close to where I live.
There is too much money on the table. Unless a sequel bombed on epic proportions this entire series will play out. They may even do the modern thing and break the finale into two parts. And they will do what is necessary to get the board to give it a PG-13 rating.
 
There is too much money on the table. Unless a sequel bombed on epic proportions this entire series will play out.
You’re probably right. 😃 This could play out like the Godfather series. I can see “all day Hunger Games marathons” on television like they have for the Godfather on Thanksgiving Day.
They may even do the modern thing and break the finale into two parts. And they will do what is necessary to get the board to give it a PG-13 rating.
The Mockingjay has enough material for at least two movies, and there has already been talk that there will be three sequels.
At the end of the third book, Suzanne Collins gave thanks to the army of editors at the book publishing company, and said something about working with the movie producers. She will cooperate to get the whole story on film, even if it has to be changed ( *** ) to get that precious PG-13. But a line by line filiming of the Mockinjay book would be a disaster.

(***) The blowing up of the kids along with Prim with Katniss looking on wasn’t necessary. Katniss already had enough reasons to believe President Coin would just be another President Snow.
 
Here’s something interesting about Hunger Games. I was on the Hunger Games IMDB page and noticed the demographic breakdown (under user ratings) of who gave the movie what rating. As of right now, Women overall give the film 8.3. Men overall give it a 7.3. I did a search of a few other movies to see if that’s normal. And I could not find a single movie that had a gap as wide as a full 1.0 star like Hunger Games. Not even movies known to be “guy” movies, or “gal” movies. Not Predator (difference of 0.6), not Rocky (0.6), not Goodfellas (0.4), not Bridgett Jones’ Diary (0.9), not Steel Magnolias (0.9). I couldn’t find any after several searches. What’s with that phenomenon!
 
I just finished Mockingjay, the third book in the Hunger Games trilogy.
It was a great read. But I wonder how they could make a movie about it and get it rated PG-13.

There are many references to torture of Peeta, Joanna and other teenagers. Katniss runs a gauntlet in which she’s frequently injured and an explosion kills many children including Prim. This is pretty disturbing stuff for a ten year old.

The Hunger Games movie wasn’t constant batlling, explosions and killing like Mockingjay. I seriously quesiton whether the Mockinjay movie will ever be made. It would probably get an R rating which would kill the box office revenues. No middle schools getting out early to go see the first showing of Mockingjay, as happened for Hunger Games at a couple of schools close to where I live.
It will not only be made, it will follow the tradition of the final Harry Potter and Twilight novels and be divided into two films.
 
Oh darn! I wish I hadn’t read that. I am just reading Mockingjay and was SO happy that Prim had survived the initial attack on District 12. I was hoping that she was going to survive. : (
I just finished Mockingjay, the third book in the Hunger Games trilogy.
It was a great read. But I wonder how they could make a movie about it and get it rated PG-13.

There are many references to torture of Peeta, Joanna and other teenagers. Katniss runs a gauntlet in which she’s frequently injured and an explosion kills many children including Prim. This is pretty disturbing stuff for a ten year old.

The Hunger Games movie wasn’t constant batlling, explosions and killing like Mockingjay. I seriously quesiton whether the Mockinjay movie will ever be made. It would probably get an R rating which would kill the box office revenues. No middle schools getting out early to go see the first showing of Mockingjay, as happened for Hunger Games at a couple of schools close to where I live.
 
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