The husband as head of the family

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My boyfriend was baptized a Roman Catholic and his family converted to Baptist when he was child, and continued to attend an all boys Catholic school (grade school and highschool). Yet, he did no follow in Catholic faith and he will not convert to this day, because he said that he grows more in in faith with his Baptist church. His argument is that he has learned the Catholic teaching (while he was in school) and he was able to compare Catholic versus Baptist. He has chosen being a Baptist.

My family and I are devout Roman Catholics. I actually feel stronger in my faith now (after being with my boyfriend of 2 and half years) because I see our difference in belief. Because of it, I try to learn more about being a Catholic.

My boyfriend knows that I will not convert. He has seen how our family interacts, goes to church together and pray the rosary together at home. Because we have been discussing marriage, both of us are aware that one of us should and must convert to avoid conflict in the future (with kids involved). Since, I will not convert (this is set in stone), he told me that he would have no choice but be the one to “give way”. I rejected his proposal to “give way”, because I realized that it is not sincere acceptance … he only said it beause it’s what I want to hear. I couldn’t bear to live with my conscience knowing he is not happy with his decision.

My dream is to have a family of my own, same as how my parents raised me. I want to raise my own kids as Roman Catholics and we would all go to church together. The problem is my boyfriend wants the same thing as well, but he wants me and our future kids to go with him in his own church.

We discuss religion all the time, and I always end up crying, because it’s so hard for me. It almost got to the point that I actually breaking up with him (on the phone). He can find someone else who can fullfill his “ideal”. I can let him go and this would be my sacrifice.
I cannot “give way” to him, even though I love him. I’m waiting for him…for his change of heart.

He sent me an email after the break up incident This is what he said:

“I just feel so insecure and pressured. I just felt like I want to have a family that is similar to yours and that I could at least share my traditions and belief. There is so much expectations and pressure for me to stand up as a leader of a family. I felt like if I don’t and can’t feel it now, I would not be a good family man in the future”

After I received the email, we talked again, this time he referred to the bible:
Eph. 5:22-24 – “Wives, be subject to your husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of his wife, as Christ is the head of the church, His Body, and is himself its savior. As the church is subject to Christ, so let wives also be subject in everything to their husbands.”

Just as wives must be submissive to their husbands as the head of the family, husbands must love their wives sacrificially, as Christ loves the Church:

Eph. 5:25,28 – just as wives must submit to their husbands, husbands must “love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her…husbands should love their wives as their own bodies.” Just as the Church is legally and morally obligated to submit to Christ, wives are obligated to submit to their husbands.

What my boyfriend is trying to imply is that if we are to follow what the bible is saying, I am the one to convert. This is God’s perfect plan.

What should I do? I told him we are not husband and wife yet. We have to settle this now. If he says he is converting then it would be his responsibilty to lead the family and follow the Roman Catholic faith. I also told him that as a RC, I have to promise to raise my kids Catholic.

Please share your thoughts on this matter. Can you tell me if you were in the same situation as me before. What did you do?

Thank you.
 
Hi G00dgirl, and welcome to the forums!

Every interfaith relationship has a different set of dynamics, and I don’t think there is a “one size fits all” answer. I am getting married this summer to a Lutheran woman, and grew up in a family where my mom was Protestant, dad was Catholic. What worked for my parents may be different from what works for my fiance and I, which may be different from what works for someone else.

My personal observation is that the greater the differences in religious worldview, the greater the potential conflict. The level of each partner’s commitment to their respective faith probably makes a big difference too. The fact that your relationship has lead you to a deeper appreciation of your own faith and the fact that your boyfriend admires the religious atmosphere in your Catholic home are encouraging signs. The fact that this is a source of constant conflict that often leaves you in tears is a red flag.

You are wise to want to sort this out sooner, rather than later. The fundamental question that each of you has to answer is whether you have a vocation to marriage with each other. . .is this the person God is calling you to spend the rest of your life with? Or is this simply a relationship that has helped you sort out what you can and cannot live with in a marriage partner? No one else can really answer that question for you.

If you determine that this is the person you are meant to share your life with, I would question your underlying premise that one of you must convert. Each of you must follow your conscience and for either of you to convert simply to please the other would not be advisable.

What you, as a Catholic, do have an obligation to do is to follow the laws of the church regarding marriage. This means going through marriage preparation together, and either marrying in the Catholic Church or possibly in his church with special permission. You would also have to reaffirm your intention to continue living your Catholic faith, and promise to do all that you can to ensure that your children are baptized and raised Catholic. He does not have to make any specific promises, but has to be made aware of your promises.

The two of you would need to figure out how to balance each of your religious obligations with your family. This could include, for example, attending Mass together as a family most Sundays, but also attending his Church together once every month or so (while fulfilling your Mass obligation on Saturday, pershps). This certainly is challenging, but not impossible.

Best wishes and prayers for you.
 
Keep in mind that when Paul wrote Ephesians there was ONE Church-- the Catholic Church. St. Paul would spin in his grave to think that someone was trying to use his words to convince someone they must convert OUT of the Catholic Church. Think about this for a moment. You know there were heresies and break-away groups in the early Church-- like Gnostism, Arianism, Nestorian, etc. The Church did **not **teach that a wife must follow her husband out of the Catholic Church.

The Church teaches we must always follow Christ and his Church no matter the cost. So, you have rightly discerned that you cannot become a Baptist. You know the Truth about the Catholic Church. It is very unfortunate that his family left the Church.

You are spot-on regarding unity of religion, in general, but most especially in your household and family.

It is unfortunate that at this juncture you have realized the agony of having to break up with someone because you have found a “dealbreaker” in the relationship.

Stand strong on this. You have it right. He is still searching for a way to convince you to become Baptist so he can make his ideal work with you. Neither of you will be happy in this arrangement.

What you have experienced is why I made the decision not to date outside my faith. I wanted a Catholic family, a Catholic home, and a Catholic husband. Period. I believe the Catholic Church has the fullness of Truth. There can be no compromise on that. So, I dated only Catholics-- and not non-practicing Catholics, former Catholics, dissenting Catholics, lukewarm Catholics. Only practicing, devout Catholics who followed the faith as I did and had the same vision for marriage and family as I did.

These issues are too important to compromise on. You’ve done the right thing, and as painful as it is now he will thank you for it later, and you will thank yourself later.
 
I do as well, however I would suggest that if he is a devout Baptist he read “Born Fundamentalist, Born again Catholic” by David Currie, it’s from a very Baptist point of view.

I was raised Baptist and if he REALLY knows his faith and truly starts looking at the Catholic Church he will see a number of similarities… we just call it different things but basically it’s the same.

I believe it’s always best for both parents to be of the same faith as to not confuse the children - as a convert (after years of study) I’m obviously biased towards our Faith. My wife’s Grandfather was a Baptist Minister and her entire family is Baptist. As most of her family knows I came very close to becoming a Presbyterian Minister (I left the Baptist Church in High School) and we have had theological discussion before, no one even questioned out becoming Catholic… I’m still just waiting with baited breath to discuss it sometime, lol! I’m close to getting my Baptist mother to convert as well and that is no easy feat when they are in their 60s.

It sounds like you guys are both pretty young and my guess is from the South if his parents left the Catholic Faith for Baptist (I live in the South as well). My guess is also that his family and his reasons for being Baptist over Catholic are based upon misunderstandings rather than fact.

IMHO the Church did a very poor job of teaching the faith in the wake of Vatican II and a lot of young Catholics left the Church. The late 70s early 80s were also a time of many anti-Catholic falsehoods and many people who weren’t able to argue why the Church was correct against these found themselves believing them (I was one of these Baptist growing up and discovering the truth about what was being taught against the Catholics was one of the reasons I left for the Presbyterian Church).

Finally have him check out www.catholicbridge.com it may answer some of his concerns about the faith.

Bottom line though I have to agree, as I said at the beginning, with 1ke. My wife and I felt very strongly, she was much more hesitant than I at first because she hadn’t done the research, that we wanted our family of 1 faith. TRULY both Catholics and Baptist are Christians. Even our Pope would say that in many cases most of the non-Catholic Christians today have enough of the truth to find salvation. But why cut yourself and your family short when they can have the fullness of truth? If for no other reason than the Eucharist alone.

As tough as it may sound, if he is going to try to convert you before or after marriage or wants to teach the kids 2 views I would end it and realize that God has used this relationship to show you what you and He really want for your future family. However if this young man wants to study and look for the Truth, for the Pillar and discover all that his Christian Faith can be, help him with that journey home.

Sincerely,
Joe
 
g00dgirl said:
…he was able to compare Catholic versus Baptist. He has chosen being a Baptist.

My family and I are devout Roman Catholics…My boyfriend knows that I will not convert…Since, I will not convert (this is set in stone), he told me that he would have no choice but be the one to “give way”. I rejected his proposal to “give way”, because I realized that it is not sincere acceptance … …My dream is to have a family of my own, same as how my parents raised me. I want to raise my own kids as Roman Catholics and we would all go to church together. The problem is my boyfriend wants the same thing as well, but he wants me and our future kids to go with him in his own church.

We discuss religion all the time, and I always end up crying, because it’s so hard for me. …After I received the email, we talked again, this time he referred to the bible:
Eph. 5:22-24 – “Wives, be subject to your husbands…"…What my boyfriend is trying to imply is that if we are to follow what the bible is saying, I am the one to convert. This is God’s perfect plan.

What should I do? I told him we are not husband and wife yet. We have to settle this now. …
Please share your thoughts on this matter. Can you tell me if you were in the same situation as me before. What did you do?..
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If you are crying about this now, imagine how much worse it can get after marriage and children.

You were correct to tell him that you are not husband and wife yet. He’s obviously torn because he loves both you and his Protestant faith. At this point it doesn’t sound like he really wants to join (or return to) the Catholic Church. If he only did so because he felt pressured or because he didn’t want to loose you, his Catholic faith might be more like the seeds that fell on rocky ground or among thorns (see Matt 13 the Parable of the Sower.) His parents lost their Catholic faith so you see that can happen.

A devout Protestant may have more in common with a devout Catholic than someone with a luke-warm faith. Yet there are significant differences. I can see the attraction you might have for a devout Protestant man; I married one too. We thought we had things figured out, but that changed once a chlid came along. It took ten years of mostly me compromising my faith before my husband entered the Catholic Church. I would not recommend taking the route I did.

It sounds like you are both want to marry someone who shares your faith, but neither of you wants to convert. It’s good that you both believe enough not to want to compromise your faith. Neither one of you needs to compromise.

Ideally, it would be great if this fine young gentleman truly believed what the Catholic Church teaches and if he wanted to re-join the Catholic Church–not because of his love for you but because of his love for Christ. It doesn’t sound like that is likely to happen anytime soon, if ever. I know this is probably not what you wanted to hear, but out of love for the other, it might be easier and better to break things off now so you can find the person you are looking for–someone who shares your faith.

You are trying to re-unite what was broken apart during the Reformation. Continuing along this path might be like re-living through the Reformation. That is why you find yourself crying. Jesus prayed that we might be one like the Father and He are One–He’s crying along with you.
 
It is unfortunate that at this juncture you have realized the agony of having to break up with someone because you have found a "dealbreaker"
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in the relationship.

Stand strong on this. You have it right. He is still searching for a way to convince you to become Baptist so he can make his ideal work with you. Neither of you will be happy in this arrangement.

a resounding chorus of YESSSSSSSSSSSSS.
 
If he’s your husband, yes, he’s the head of the family. He’s NOT your husband, he’s your potential husband. If he’s going to use that verse to settle a question that is causing both of you great pain in his own favor – regardless of your feelings – then he’s not actually husband material for you.
 
My heart hurts for your situation.

I’m married to a non-Catholic, and in reading your post, I have to say that this is too much to overcome for yourself.

You are right in not wanting him to ‘concede’ to becoming Catholic just to marry you and you are right for wanting to start a family that will worship together.

Your main problem is that he is the type of person that is not open to honestly look at the Catholic Church or your perspective. According to him, “He already knows” what the Church teaches. This is the hardest mindset I’ve come across with any nominal Catholic or ex-Catholic. If they are willing to be open to learn, then they have a chance, but if they don’t then nothing can be done to change how they are, with the exception [of course] of a miracle from God.

This type of mindset isn’t going to change with marriage for him. If anything, marriage makes relationship problems only deeper and more intense.

I’m so sorry. I know you don’t want to blow him off after sharing such a good relationship besides this one point, but you know you can’t change him. Only he can change himself.

Praying for God’s miracle in the meantime though. It might be possible for you to talk to him about reevaluating his preconceived notions. But I advise you not to even think about marrying him until he has this settled, truly, for himself.
 
To further what Jazzbaby said, consider this - he is using scripture to manipulate you. I’m not saying that he’s doing this intentionally, but that’s what I see when I read he had done that to you. Please continue on your wise path and don’t give up your faith for anyone.
 
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g00dgirl:
My boyfriend was baptized a Roman Catholic and his family converted to Baptist when he was child, and continued to attend an all boys Catholic school (grade school and highschool). Yet, he did no follow in Catholic faith and he will not convert to this day, because he said that he grows more in in faith with his Baptist church. His argument is that he has learned the Catholic teaching (while he was in school) and he was able to compare Catholic versus Baptist. He has chosen being a Baptist.
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I don’t think someone who has made this choice should violate his own conscience to accomodate a potential marriage. If he doesn’t WANT to convert, he shouldn’t convert.
St Thomas Aquinas on Conscience:
The reason that this is important is that one cannot do the right thing if one does not know what the right thing is. So, if someone has problems with their conscience, it does not seem appropriate to blame them. Children do not have fully formed consciences, and do not always understand what is the right thing to do. If a child does wrong because he or she didn’t know any better, or because he or she thought it was the right thing to do, we do not (or should not) blame and punish him or her. Aquinas therefore believes that not only is one excused from wrongdoing if one’s conscience is in error, one also is bound to do the wrong thing if one’s conscience tells one that it is the RIGHT thing to do. He also believes that one has a duty to have a well-formed conscience, one that knows what the right thing to do is. Even though an erring conscious excuses one from doing wrong, one may have done wrong in letting one’s conscience fall into error.

aquinasonline.com/Questions/conscience.htm
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If he is willing to go through RCIA and properly discern a return to the Catholic faith, and after having gone through RCIA and having a true change of heart, he then tells you he WANTS to become Catholic, that would be the only circumstance I could see this marriage starting properly.

I know others will disagree, but I am addressing your situation and what you have written here. It is obviously of utter importance to you that he shares the same faith, not a consent to do so, but a true belief in the faith.
 
As a man I completely understand your boyfriend point of view and I partially share his take on the whole thing. If I were in his position I would do almost the same but I would not look for a Catholic wife. What he is doing makes him a serious Baptist but a very poor husband material for a Catholic woman. You have an understanding of the sacramental marriage, and he does not have that understanding.
I am a Catholic with an overwhelming sense of responsibility as the head of the family. In today’s world it is very difficult be be the spiritual leader of the family and a good provider. I think that starting a relationship with the expectation that our future spouse will change is a recipe for failure, and I am not talking only about religion.
 
My advice is to find someone just as strong in your faith as you are. If having a Catholic family and raising your kids Catholic is what’s really important to you, stand fast and don’t budge. If this is a difficult situation to deal with now, it will only become worse after you are married and even more worse when kids enter the picture. Of course, there will be no way out once you are married, so take it from me, save yourself the trouble and heartache and hold onto what you really want. It will be well worth it in the end.
 
I agree with Christiano above: your man’s not being honest with himself about his relationship with his faith, if he can still consider you as a possible wife.

I think the hard medicine here might be the stuff you have to swallow: you BOTH would be better off with someone else!

My parents are of different churches, and it has been a severe division between them, almost a lifelong cold war.

I’d run from that if I were you.
 
Hello to all! Thank you for all your (name removed by moderator)ut and advice.

I believe I am still praying for a miracle, but I know I will have to wait for a long time before that miracle will happen OR God is testing me for how long I can endure. My boyfriend and I will really have to seriously talk again about this and our situation. Each time we do, we fall back to where we started (crying, sorrys and him giving in to me because he loves me). He had asked me to give him another chance and go with him to his Church to see how it is like. I rejected and I told him to respect my answer. The only time I would attend is if he would also be willing to attend RCIA. I’m somewhat reluctant to suggest this idea, but that would entail me going to his church. We are not getting any younger.
I am already 30yrs old!

“The Husband as Head of the Family”. Well, my boyfriend has given me scenarios where a few of his “women” church mates married a Roman Catholic or other denomination. Since their marriages, he would hardly see them anymore, because the “women” submitted to their husbands and they would be obligated to go their husband’s church.
Keep in mind that when Paul wrote Ephesians there was ONE Church-- the Catholic Church. St. Paul would spin in his grave to think that someone was trying to use his words to convince someone they must convert OUT of the Catholic Church. Think about this for a moment. You know there were heresies and break-away groups in the early Church-- like Gnostism, Arianism, Nestorian, etc. The Church did not teach that a wife must follow her husband out of the Catholic Church.
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Thanks for this. I was confused as to how I can answer my boyfriend on this, but your comments made sense.

Thanks again to all and God Bless!
 
If you are crying about this now, imagine how much worse it can get after marriage and children.
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This.

This man is not ready to be the spiritual help and leader of a family. Someday perhaps he will, but not today. Cut him free. And cut your heart free, you gave too much of your heart to someone outside of marriage from the sounds of things. Ask God to return it, and keep it free for Him.

Trust in the Lord. 🙂
 
Here is another thing to think about:

I married a fallen away Catholic who was searching for a church when I met him. I led him back to the Catholic church. Everything in the religion area was fine until we had children. He decided church was a hassle and started bashing the doctrine of the Catholic Church. He started mocking my moral standards and quite going to church. He eventually told me that he didn’t object to raising our children Catholic, but if something ever happened to me, he would never raise them Catholic.

This doesn’t mean that this would happen in your case, but if the struggle is this intense right now, he might convince himself that being Catholic is what he wants and change his mind later.
 
I think your boyfriend sounds very devout and has a good head on his shoulders. I know someone said that he is not as devout as he thinks if he is considering marriage to a Catholic, but honestly, love often clouds us or makes us consider things we may not have before. When you are in love, you do everything to make it work.

That said, it sounds like this won’t work. You are both extremely devout, and neither will be happy giving in. So you really shouldn’t.
 
I am married to an ex-Catholic, now Baptist. We have a child in Primary School. We were married Catholic and promised to raise our children Catholic. He now will not do that. Our son goes to both churches. It has caused a lot of heartache, and I’m sure some confusion for our son. I wish things were different.

You are right that he shouldn’t do this for you. He must really believe it. He can attend RCIA without you going to his church. I suspect that he gets a lot of push back from his church about being Catholic or even considering the Catholic Church as an option for him. As you think about moving forward, consider these questions:
  • What is my ultimate goal?
  • How does it serve God?
  • If I go to his church, what is the message I am sending? Is that the right message?
  • What would it mean if we didn’t stay together?
 
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