The idea that Luther knew the truth (when he was Catholic)

[LutheranScholar]

Thanks LutheranScholar.

I don’t want to offend you or hijack this thread, so I’m reading the links you provided, as well as the Joint declaration on the Doctrine of Justification.

One more link: ctsfw.net/media/pdfs/preusdoctrineofjustification.pdf. The Joint Declaration is important to the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America and the Lutheran World Federation, but neither the Lutheran Church- Missouri Synod nor the International Lutheran Council signed off on the Declaration. Confessional Lutherans are rather skeptical on the verbiage and motives of the JD. Paul McCain, one of our leading theologians, has written, Ten years after it appeared, we still continue to hear that the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification was a “breakthrough” between the Roman Catholic Church and the Lutheran Church. The media loves to perpetuate this myth. In fact, the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification is a fraud. It was a sell-out by revisionist Lutherans to Rome. firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2010/03/a-betrayal-of-the-gospel-the-joint-declaration-on-the-doctrine-of-justification.

 

[LutheranScholar]

So, I’ve done some reading this week, including links posted by LutheranScholar, and I can’t find any evidence suggesting that Martin Luther arrived at the doctrine of justification by any other means but by his own intellect.

Criticism and correction are welcome. I’m just trying to understand the Lutheran position.

The Lutheran position is that we are justified by grace through faith. Steido or any of the other Confessional Lutherans may correct me if I’m speaking wrongly, but the important thing really is the doctrine of justification. How Luther came about this is not really as important as the fact that by the grace of God he *did * come about it and ( like anything else Lutheran), this doctrine is utterly supported by Holy Scripture and further elaborated and extrapolated by the Lutheran Confessions.

 

[Peter_J]

Did Luther really know them to be true, or were there doubts present from the beginning that he just had to explore? As Protestantism is more of a movement of different churches stemming from a Reformation heritage stemming from four traditions: Lutheran, Calvinist, Anabaptist and Anglican, it’s more of a matter of somebody leaving his or her own upbringing for a different alternative.

Alright.

 

[steido01]

So, I’ve done some reading this week, including links posted by LutheranScholar, and I can’t find any evidence suggesting that Martin Luther arrived at the doctrine of justification by any other means but by his own intellect.

Criticism and correction are welcome. I’m just trying to understand the Lutheran position.

Luther may have enunciated justification by faith more clearly and more vigorously than previous theologians, but he was far from the first. I’d recommend checking out the Second Council of Orange, as well as Paul’s words in Romans. Augustine, too, obviously.

 

[campeador]

Peter J, if you’d like for me to start a new thread I will certainly do that.

 

[JMM1957]

The Lutheran position is that we are justified by grace through faith. Steido or any of the other Confessional Lutherans may correct me if I’m speaking wrongly, but the important thing really is the doctrine of justification. How Luther came about this is not really as important as the fact that by the grace of God he *did * come about it and ( like anything else Lutheran), this doctrine is utterly supported by Holy Scripture and further elaborated and extrapolated by the Lutheran Confessions.

And just what is the Catholic position then?

 

[Peter_J]

Peter J, if you’d like for me to start a new thread I will certainly do that.

Only if you want to.

 

[LutheranScholar]

And just what is the Catholic position then?

It’s not for me, as a Confessional Lutheran, to tell Catholics what they believe, or what their positions are.

 

[fhansen]

And a Catholic might wonder: did Luther intellectually discover the doctrine of justification or was it received by him by Divine revelation?

Luther was sincere in his pursuits. He was seeking the essence of Christianity, a direct relationship with God, reacting to his own scrupulosity which was encouraged by a way of teaching and understanding the faith that had grown mechanized and impersonal and controlling, controlled by a Church, in fact, whose members/leaders in some cases had participated in various abuses of their power. Love of God and neighbor had grown cold.

His ‘justification by faith alone’ doctrine seemed the answer because it bypassed, to a large degree, the need for the Church in playing role in our salvation as well as its authority in matters of faith. The problem is that the doctrine is just plain wrong, and it, along with its companion, Sola Scriptura, opened the door to a great many false gospels or doctrines, to a great many alternative “churches” as the authority of the whole body was being eroded or subverted by individual members.

The truth is that the Church’s role has always been the establishing and nurturing of relationship between the individual and God, but she’s also always in need of reform in carrying out this mission better and better, especially if and when her members may slip into abusing power or inadequately transmitting the deposit of faith which she holds in her possession.