The Idle Tale - Luke 24:11

[Ben_Masada]

The addition is only fitting, since it’s a Catholic forum and that the Catholic faith disagrees with that statement of yours.

What you are trying to tell me are two things: First, that there is no freedom of speech among Catholics. And second, that the Church does not approve of Logic.

 

[djconklin]

First, that there is no freedom of speech among Catholics.

Actually, there is no freedom to tell lies among the followers of God.

 

[Ben_Masada]

Actually, there is no freedom to tell lies among the followers of God.

**I warn you that you are the one giving me the license to tell you that you are the one lying here and not me. That’s what I mean by Catholics name calling the guests liars. I hope all the other readers read this and absolve me from showing you the lies you spread here. **

 

[djconklin]

Originally Posted by djconklin
Actually, there is no freedom to tell lies among the followers of God.

I warn you that you are the one giving me the license to tell you that you are the one lying here and not me. That’s what I mean by Catholics name calling the guests liars. I hope all the other readers read this and absolve me from showing you the lies you spread here.

I haven’t told one lie here. You claimed that the magazine Scientific American was Christian.

 

[Lapell]

Lapell, forgive me but your comment above is not intelligent enough to describe your exposure to me for a while now. What on earth has belief in an afterlife to do with being Atheist? I don’t believe in afterlife because this is a doctrine that contradicts the Scriptures. I mean the Scriptures that Jesus used to handle, not your Scriptures. I am rather upholding the Scriptures when I deny the existence of an afterlife.

So there is nothing about an afterlife in your Bible, Ben? Is God not the God of the living ones? Why did God call Himself to Moses the God of Abraham, of Isaac and of Jacob? And what about the Book of Job? “On the latter day I shall see God”… see God and die? And why should he die after having seen God? Quite a reward, really, for having served God faithfully…

 

[Lapell]

Also, do you dismiss the book of the Maccabees also? Why then should you Jews celebrate the feast of Chanukkah? There is a passage there where they pray for the dead Jews. God didn’t scold them for doing so, did He? Why pray for the dead if there is no afterlife? Also, in Jesus’ time the Sadducees didn’t apparently believe in an afterlife, but the Pharisees did. Look at the reaction of Pharisees when Paul said that he was standing in judgment because of his conviction that there is a resurrection of the dead…

 

[Ben_Masada]

So there is nothing about an afterlife in your Bible, Ben? Is God not the God of the living ones? Why did God call Himself to Moses the God of Abraham, of Isaac and of Jacob? And what about the Book of Job? “On the latter day I shall see God”… see God and die? And why should he die after having seen God? Quite a reward, really, for having served God faithfully…

**No, there is not. You think there is because the reason to serve God is conditioned by the NT promise of an afterlife, as the resurrection of the dead was the Pauline reason to serve God. (II Cor. 15:32)

Yes, our God is the God of the living. That’s why there is no afterlife. Thank you for the help. God called Himself to Moses the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as a plea to identify Himself to Moses, who had never any exposure to Yahweh. That’s all.

The book of Job is a Jewish novel with the purpose to teach about the place of Israel in the Council of God. It has nothing to do with an afterlife. “On the latter day” is a reference to the end of his condition of suffering. As still a living being he would return to his prior condition with God before he died. Job represents Israel, the Jewish People, and his friends the other nations.

Rewards! Why do we need rewards to serve God? Our reward is already within the package of the honor we are granted to serve God. As I can see, you still don’t know a lot about being Jewish. But you will get there if you remain long enough with me.**

 

[Ben_Masada]

Also, do you dismiss the book of the Maccabees also? Why then should you Jews celebrate the feast of Chanukkah? There is a passage there where they pray for the dead Jews. God didn’t scold them for doing so, did He? Why pray for the dead if there is no afterlife? Also, in Jesus’ time the Sadducees didn’t apparently believe in an afterlife, but the Pharisees did.

Look at the reaction of Pharisees when Paul said that he was standing in judgment because of his conviction that there is a resurrection of the dead…

 

[swariffin]

**No, there is not. You think there is because the reason to serve God is conditioned by the NT promise of an afterlife, as the resurrection of the dead was the Pauline reason to serve God. (II Cor. 15:32)

Yes, our God is the God of the living. That’s why there is no afterlife. Thank you for the help. God called Himself to Moses the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as a plea to identify Himself to Moses, who had never any exposure to Yahweh. That’s all.

The book of Job is a Jewish novel with the purpose to teach about the place of Israel in the Council of God. It has nothing to do with an afterlife. “On the latter day” is a reference to the end of his condition of suffering. As still a living being he would return to his prior condition with God before he died. Job represents Israel, the Jewish People, and his friends the other nations.

Rewards! Why do we need rewards to serve God? Our reward is already within the package of the honor we are granted to serve God. As I can see, you still don’t know a lot about being Jewish. But you will get there if you remain long enough with me.**

God is God of living, you are correct and I agree. God said that “I am the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob” means that (a) Those 3 are still living under the realm of God and (b) There is a connection between Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, who were already dead in the eye of Moses, to Moses who were still living at that time. Certainly that means a continuation of life of human being which not to terminate at the time of physical death.

BTW, you are a very good person I believe. You believe that to serve God is not to expect reward, but it is already the honor we were given earlier by God. For this, I 101% agree to you and thumbs up for this.

 

[Ben_Masada]

God is God of living, you are correct and I agree. God said that “I am the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob” means that (a) Those 3 are still living under the realm of God and (b) There is a connection between Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, who were already dead in the eye of Moses, to Moses who were still living at that time. Certainly that means a continuation of life of human being which not to terminate at the time of physical death.

BTW, you are a very good person I believe. You believe that to serve God is not to expect reward, but it is already the honor we were given earlier by God. For this, I 101% agree to you and thumbs up for this.

Just don’t forget that every time God addressed to someone as the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, was His way to identify Himself. It didn’t mean at all that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are alive somewhere.

 

[Lapell]

Lapell;5131883:

Also, do you dismiss the book of the Maccabees also? Why then should you Jews celebrate the feast of Chanukkah? There is a passage there where they pray for the dead Jews. God didn’t scold them for doing so, did He? Why pray for the dead if there is no afterlife? Also, in Jesus’ time the Sadducees didn’t apparently believe in an afterlife, but the Pharisees did.

**Now Lapell, you are going to forgive me, because I am going to prove to you that Paul was a pathological liar; therefore, being this the reason why his word enjoys no credibility with us. You are right, when Paul was standing in judgment, he claimed that he had been arrested because of his conviction in the resurrection of the dead. (Acts 23:6)

Now, tell me, was that the reason why he was arrested? Read Acts 21:27,28. He had been arrested at the Temple by Jews from the province of Asia for spreading his teachings
everywhere against out People, our Law and the Sanctuary; and even for having brought Greeks into areas of the Sanctuary which were closed to Gentiles. Then, when brought to the Sanhedrin, he fabricated another reason to claim why he had been arrested: Because he believed in the resurrection. Now, what credibility do you expect us to render to such a person?**

Ben, you are going to forgive ME, because I am going to tell you this: you are trying to separate things quite linked together. What you just said was not hidden by the writer of the Acts of the Apostles, for one thing.
Now, the Apostles and then Paul have been preaching the resurrected Jesus. If Jesus is the Messiah, and if he is resurrected it certainly would have several implications on the way Judaism has been practiced up to then, wouldn’t it? So, Paul’s belief in the resurrection of the dead certainly had something to do with his swtanding on trial. The Apostles were called before the Sanhedrin because they were preaching the resurrected Jesus against their order not to preach his name. It certainly had to do with their belief that there is a resurrection, and that Jesus was resurrected.
To call Paul a liar for what he said is quite far-fetched by me!

 

[Lapell]

Now, tell me, was that the reason why he was arrested? Read Acts 21:27,28. He had been arrested at the Temple by Jews from the province of Asia for spreading his teachings
everywhere against out People, our Law and the Sanctuary; and even for having brought Greeks into areas of the Sanctuary which were closed to Gentiles. Then, when brought to the Sanhedrin, he fabricated another reason to claim why he had been arrested: Because he believed in the resurrection. Now, what credibility do you expect us to render to such a person?

And what credibility do you expect US to render to his accusers? He was said to have desecrated the Temple by bringing a Gentile into forbidden areas of the Sanctuary , which he did not!!

 

[Lapell]

And what credibility do you expect US to render to his accusers? He was said to have desecrated the Temple by bringing a Gentile into forbidden areas of the Sanctuary , which he did not!!

The writer of the Acts of the Apostles took good care to say that the accusers had been under the impression that he did from having seen Paul with a Gentile disciple (it was Titus, I think; if not, it would be Timothy), even though they did not actually see them go together into the areas forbidden to Gentiles per se…

 

[Lapell]

Lapell;5131883:

Also, do you dismiss the book of the Maccabees also? Why then should you Jews celebrate the feast of Chanukkah? There is a passage there where they pray for the dead Jews. God didn’t scold them for doing so, did He? Why pray for the dead if there is no afterlife? Also, in Jesus’ time the Sadducees didn’t apparently believe in an afterlife, but the Pharisees did.

**Now Lapell, you are going to forgive me, because I am going to prove to you that Paul was a pathological liar; therefore, being this the reason why his word enjoys no credibility with us. You are right, when Paul was standing in judgment, he claimed that he had been arrested because of his conviction in the resurrection of the dead. (Acts 23:6)

Now, tell me, was that the reason why he was arrested? Read Acts 21:27,28. He had been arrested at the Temple by Jews from the province of Asia for spreading his teachings
everywhere against out People, our Law and the Sanctuary; and even for having brought Greeks into areas of the Sanctuary which were closed to Gentiles. Then, when brought to the Sanhedrin, he fabricated another reason to claim why he had been arrested: Because he believed in the resurrection. Now, what credibility do you expect us to render to such a person?**

Why did you quote my post about the Book of Macchabees and didn’t say a word about it? Or maybe you didn’t mean to have it appear there…

 

[Lapell]

Just don’t forget that every time God addressed to someone as the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, was His way to identify Himself. It didn’t mean at all that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are alive somewhere.

But Ben, what good would it be for God to have said that He is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (“I am”, not “I was”, BTW) when they all died a long time before?

 

[Ben_Masada]

Ben Masada;5133755:

Ben, you are going to forgive ME, because I am going to tell you this: you are trying to separate things quite linked together. What you just said was not hidden by the writer of the Acts of the Apostles, for one thing.
Now, the Apostles and then Paul have been preaching the resurrected Jesus. If Jesus is the Messiah, and if he is resurrected it certainly would have several implications on the way Judaism has been practiced up to then, wouldn’t it? So, Paul’s belief in the resurrection of the dead certainly had something to do with his swtanding on trial. The Apostles were called before the Sanhedrin because they were preaching the resurrected Jesus against their order not to preach his name. It certainly had to do with their belief that there is a resurrection, and that Jesus was resurrected.
To call Paul a liar for what he said is quite far-fetched by me!

**The headquarters of the apostles was in Jerusalem and they were coexisting peacefully with mainstream Judaism for about 30 years when Paul showed up preaching that Jesus was the Messiah, son of God, and that he had resurrected. For this reason he was nearly killed by the local Jews for preaching apostasy in Jerusalem. How come? How about the apostles? What were they preaching about Jesus to get along pretty well together? (Acts 9:31) This is proof that the resurrection was fabricated by Paul according to II Timothy 2:8. **

 

[Ben_Masada]

And what credibility do you expect US to render to his accusers? He was said to have desecrated the Temple by bringing a Gentile into forbidden areas of the Sanctuary , which he did not!!

I said that he was arrested for the accusation of having introduced Gentiles into forbidden areas in the Temple. Whether the accusation was true or not, it’s immaterial. He was supposed to defend himself in Court that the accusation was false and not make up the lie that the reason why he was arrested was because he believed in the resurrection. You and I know only too well that his reason was not true.

 

[Ben_Masada]

Ben Masada;5133755:

Why did you quote my post about the Book of Macchabees and didn’t say a word about it? Or maybe you didn’t mean to have it appear there…

I do accept the book of Maccabees as a historical book. But I am trying to stick to the subject of the thread and avoid straying away as you push me all the time.

 

[Ben_Masada]

But Ben, what good would it be for God to have said that He is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (“I am”, not “I was”, BTW) when they all died a long time before?

Sorry Lapel, but this is not an intelligent question. You are causing yourself embarrassing even before your Catholic partners. In fact, I have told here that this is only a token of identification. It’s as if I said, “The God of our Fathers.” It has nothing to do with they being dead or not.

 

[Lapell]

Sorry Lapell, but this is not an intelligent question. You are causing yourself embarrassing even before your Catholic partners. In fact, I have told here that this is only a token of identification. It’s as if I said, “The God of our Fathers.” It has nothing to do with they being dead or not.

Sorry Ben Masada, but if 1- God is the God of the living, and 2- God says He is the God of Abraham, of Isaac and of Jacob, then I don’t see my question to be a silly one. Unless what you really mean is, “No matter what, I won’t answer your question.” Maybe you would have been in the school of Shammai rather than in that of Hillel in their days…