Ben Did you get around to reading about the three little pigs,its very good you will love it and then we can talk. Have a great day,smileEyewitnesses of what, for Heaven’s sake? To see someone after his sufferings is no proof of resurrection. Read Acts 1:1-3)
Ben:
Ben you THINK all you read about ChristianDoes it mean you are comparing the idle tale of the resurrection with the fairy tale of the 3 little pigs?
Ben:
And no one noticed that he was working on the Sabbath? And you’d still have the problem of having a dead body, which according to Paul there were hundreds of witnesses at the time he wrote who saw Jesus alive and well after the crucifixion, see also Acts 1:3.
Great! It means I don’t have to spend too much of my time trying to make you understand how much is possible to do during 50+ years organizing what to plagiarize and apply to Jesus.
So, you still think that Ezekiel 37:12 sounds like resurrection of dead bodies to you, isn’t that right? Since I am sure I don’t need many words to persuade you of the truth, let me start with Isaiah 53:8. Here, the Prophet refers to the Land of Israel as the Land of the living. In verse 9, he says that with the exile of Israel, a grave is assigned him among the wicked, and a burial place with evildoers. That’s the Diaspora, where Israel would spend some years until the time to return to the Land of the Living, which is the Land of Israel. Does it still sound literal resurrection of dead bodies? Hardly! And I am sure you agree with me now. Thank you.
I know. Also criminals. So, it doesn’t matter, wicked, transgressors or criminals. This is a reference to the Gentiles, where Israel would be counted as, without any difference. That’s why the Ten Tribes became known as the “Lost Tribes.” They became like the Gentiles. Counted as Gentiles. Lost as part of God’s People.
No. I am sure no one did. That was a job that needed to be done on the basis of “pichuach nephesh” if you understand what I mean. He knew Jesus was still alive
Ben why did you stop at luke 24:11?? Please keep reading and I quote:Today I was visited by a Christian who calls himself a “Messianic Jew.” After an hour of study about the resurrection, he got impatient with my lack of faith, and before he left he challenged me to produce the body if I couldn’t believe in Jesus’ resurrection. That’s what inspired me to share with you this topic for discussion.
Now, if we put ourselves together, and then put together whatever we can from reading the NT about the resurrection of Jesus, we will see that he did not resurrect. I would like to bring to your attention some points about that tale. Tale! Yes, and the term is not mine. I am borrowing it from Jesus’ own disciples who went even further by adding the adjective “idle.” Idle tale, they said. (Luke 24:11)
The women had reported the words of the “angel” that Jesus had resurrected. The disciples probably had never heard of such a thing. They had no choice but to discard their report as an idle tale. Now, think: If those who lived daily with Jesus, listening daily to his words, could not believe the report, how can we be expected to, after almost two thousand years of listening to a tale that just won’t get less idle?
When did the disciples ever change their minds about that idle tale? I wonder because about 30 years later, when Paul showed up in Jerusalem preaching that Jesus had resurrected, he almost got killed. Why? Was not the Sect of the Nazarenes
headquartered in Jerusalem? Yes, but that Jesus had resurrected was not in their agenda. The whole thing had been made up by Paul. Yes, all according to his gospel as he himself revealed it to his disciple Timothy. (II Tim. 2:8) Obviously, Paul needed that tale to promote his Cause, which turned out to be Christianity.
The resurrection of Jesus, therefore, can be accepted only and exclusively by faith because there is no evidence to substantiate the event. An empty tomb is no proof of resurrection. And the refusal at the time to produce the body does not diminish from the fact that the body was indeed removed from there. And the guards can never be taken as evidence of anything whatsoever, because they were set at the tomb area only late Saturday morning. The disciple who removed Jesus’ body from that tomb, most probably Joseph of Arimathea, had the whole night of Friday, and all for himself to act without any disturbance. And he did it because he had enough reasons to believe that, by not doing it, even during the hours of that Sabbath, Mary Magdalene would have done it instead, as she herself declared she would. (John 20:15) So, I wish the preachers of the resurrection would at least give Paul the credit that’s due him. (II Tim. 2:8)
Ben:
Bill Pick, do I need to remind you that this is a NON-Catholic section of the Forum? So, I have all the right in the world to bring here my research and compare with those of others who can handle discussing the truth with a Jew. Perhaps you are right that I don’t have much to learn, but, what about if I have a thing or two to teach?
How did you determine Paul showed up 30 years after Jesus’ ministry?I wonder because about 30 years later, when Paul showed up in Jerusalem preaching that Jesus had resurrected, he almost got killed. Why? Was not the Sect of the Nazarenes headquartered in Jerusalem? Yes, but that Jesus had resurrected was not in their agenda. The whole thing had been made up by Paul. Yes, all according to his gospel as he himself revealed it to his disciple Timothy. (II Tim. 2:8) Obviously, Paul needed that tale to promote his Cause, which turned out to be Christianity.
Ben:
Only after you prove to me that Jesus was not married. Until you prove to me the slaughtering of the children by Herod in order to catch Jesus. Until you prove to me that Jesus was ever in Egypt. You must have got the idea. And the plagiarism was so unprofessional that the plagiarism of the death of children in Egypt to catch Moses, or that Jesus was in Egypt to be called from there, created such a trememdous contradiction that it gives the impression that there were two Jesuses coexisting at the same time: The one of Matthew and the one of Luke.
Verisimilitude, any religious group with the aim at becoming an organized religion or major Sect needs at least ten years to reach that level. This has been statistically a rule of thumb. By the time of the execution of Stephen, the Sect of the Nazarenes had reached that level. Taking or adding a year, let’s say, it was year 40 CE.
Thanks for answering your own question, therefore you must be correct. You make a number of assumptions, both in a liberal reading of the text you dispute and in how fast the community was growing. With such an open mind as you have I think I will pass.Verisimilitude, …Can you figure anything different from this? I didn’t think so. But I am all ears.
Ben:
Oh no! I didn’t stop at Luke 24:11. I continued the reading, but I found it too funny to write about it. Yes, Peter rose and ran to the tomb, looked inside and went home marveling at what he saw: Linen cloths by themselves. Now, you tell me, is there anything more funny than to marvel at linen cloths by themselves? What does it mean, that Jesus left the tomb naked looking for the disciples? Please, have mercy on yourself!