The Idle Tale - Luke 24:11

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swariffin said:
I read it Ben. Very clearly and I also read that the Kingdom of Heaven has been taken out from the Jews and given to another nation which bear the fruits. I am fully interested to what Jesus said.

Yes, you believe in Jesus as what you perceived He was. A criminal who confessed that He was the Messiah before Kayafas, and therefore a blasphemer.
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**Jesus never claimed to be the Messiah and therefore, he was never a blasphemer. Criminal and blasphemers are all those who claim he was what he was not.That’s because of these lies about Jesus that Jews have been persecuted throughout History in his name when he never had anything to do with it.

Ben: 😊**
 
Repeat: Where’s the proof that many survived being crucified?
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You did not understand me. I said that a few of the crucified would remain on their crosses even up to four days according to Josephus, till they met death. And that if they had been taken off their crosses after only a few hours as Jesus was, many would have survived the cross.
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Nice try. What you actually said was “Many others would have survived the cross if they had been taken off their crosses after a few hours.” So, I repeat: where’s the proof?
You really believed that Copperfield (correct spelling) really went through the Great Wall? If so, I have some land for sale.
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No, but you do not understand when you read, or perhaps I do not write English correct enough for you to understand. I meant to say that if you believe that a man in flesh and bone can go through walls, you might as well believe that David Copperfield (thank you for the correction in my spelling) went through the Great Chinese Wall.
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I understood what you said. Now you state “I meant to say” what you did not say.

I’ll take the absence of a response to the rest of my post as a concession that you were in the wrong.
 
Ben_Masada said:
swariffin;4956100:
**The Jesus I am talking about was Jewish, a religious Jew. Therefore, anything about him which is not according to his Faith, which was Judaism, is an attempt to temper with Jewish things. If you want me to but out of here, stop connecting your Christ with anything that pertains to Judaism.

Ben: 😊**
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Well, how can we not connect him to the faith of Israel if He was a Jew? Either He was or He was not, but if you yourself say He was a Jew, why should we make no connection at all with Judaism, if Himself He did somehow? Are you asking us to deny what was?
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Ben_Masada said:
djconklin;4956620:
Repeat:

**You did not understand me. I said that a few of the crucified would remain on their crosses even up to four days according to Josephus, till they met death. And that if they had been taken off their crosses after only a few hours as Jesus was, many would have survived the cross. **
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The spear in the side and the resulting fluid was proof that Jesus was actually dead. One thing that we can compliment the Romans on was their ability to kill someone. The Romans were very brutal people. Did you know that if a Roman soldier fell asleep on guard duy, his fellow soldiers would be commanded to beat him to death?:eek: The Romans involved in a Crucifixion would not want to risk harsh punishment by allowing a condemned man to get off of a cross alive.

.

Jospehus is a writer that I have meant to read. I understand that not all historians consider him 100% accurate. But I suppose that is an issue for a different thread.🙂
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Lapell said:
Ben Masada;4956110:
Well, how can we not connect him to the faith of Israel if He was a Jew? Either He was or He was not, but if you yourself say He was a Jew, why should we make no connection at all with Judaism, if Himself He did somehow? Are you asking us to deny what was?
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**The same problem over and over again: You are not focused on what you read when you are reading a post. You can connect Jesus to the Faith of Israel but not your Christ. That’s what I said. When you claim that Jesus was Christ, you are affirming a non-Jewish thing about the religious Jew that Jesus was. That’s not Jewish, and that’s what I mean. Therefore, to answer your question, yes, Jesus was Jewish; so, any non-Jewish thing attributed to him is not true. It’s a foreign interference into Judaism. So, I am not asking you to deny what Jesus was, but to stop claiming what he was not.

Ben**
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Anyhow, I am not a Messianic Jew, so I am not saying the things I say in order to convert you, but to tell you what I believe to be the Truth, O.K. If you want to show us what the Jews are taught about the passages you present us here, I am open to it. If you say things like: “The passage can’t be about Jesus”, I will have to ask you how you come to that conclusion, and to say that I disagree strongly with you. If you don’t say it, some may still come out with how they are related to Jesus, but if you say from the start something like: “I know you interpret this passage in connection with your Jesus. This is not the point of this thread I have started. I just wanted to show you what we, in Judaism, have been taught for centuries about this passage, so that you can see what the Jews themselves say about this. I just want to present it to you, if you are interested. I’ll take questions and comments as long as they would not make connections with Jesus. That doesn’t mean that you can’t believe in any connection to Jesus, but that this discussion is not about it. Thank you for your comprehension.” Would it be O. K. with you, Ben?
And how about you, guys? I believe we could indeed learn from it as long as Ben would himself resist any temptation to allude anyhow about Jesus and our faith in ways that can make us indignated and angry. O.K.?
 
Lapell said:
Anyhow, I am not a Messianic Jew, so I am not saying the things I say in order to convert you, but to tell you what I believe to be the Truth, O.K. If you want to show us what the Jews are taught about the passages you present us here, I am open to it. If you say things like: “The passage can’t be about Jesus”, I will have to ask you how you come to that conclusion, and to say that I disagree strongly with you. If you don’t say it, some may still come out with how they are related to Jesus, but if you say from the start something like: “I know you interpret this passage in connection with your Jesus. This is not the point of this thread I have started. I just wanted to show you what we, in Judaism, have been taught for centuries about this passage, so that you can see what the Jews themselves say about this. I just want to present it to you, if you are interested. I’ll take questions and comments as long as they would not make connections with Jesus. That doesn’t mean that you can’t believe in any connection to Jesus, but that this discussion is not about it. Thank you for your comprehension.” Would it be O. K. with you, Ben?
And how about you, guys? I believe we could indeed learn from it as long as Ben would himself resist any temptation to allude anyhow about Jesus and our faith in ways that can make us indignated and angry. O.K.?
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Interesting. 🙂
 
Ben_Masada said:
Lapell;4958300:
**The same problem over and over again: You are not focused on what you read when you are reading a post. You can connect Jesus to the Faith of Israel but not your Christ. That’s what I said. When you claim that Jesus was Christ, you are affirming a non-Jewish thing about the religious Jew that Jesus was. That’s not Jewish, and that’s what I mean. Therefore, to answer your question, yes, Jesus was Jewish; so, any non-Jewish thing attributed to him is not true. It’s a foreign interference into Judaism. So, I am not asking you to dedy what Jesus was but to stop saying what he was not.

Ben**
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Or to say what to you he was not. To do this, Ben, we’ll have to leave Jesus completely aside. Because to us he truly is, whether you like it or not…
This is a Catholic Forum, I have been telling you all along. When you speak this way, like it or not, you are inviting us to protest the very way you don’t want. So you’ll have to leave aside Jesus altogether.
What do you think of what I just proposed in my earlier post?
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Lapell said:
Anyhow, I am not a Messianic Jew, so I am not saying the things I say in order to convert you, but to tell you what I believe to be the Truth, O.K. If you want to show us what the Jews are taught about the passages you present us here, I am open to it. If you say things like: “The passage can’t be about Jesus”, I will have to ask you how you come to that conclusion, and to say that I disagree strongly with you. If you don’t say it, some may still come out with how they are related to Jesus, but if you say from the start something like: “I know you interpret this passage in connection with your Jesus. This is not the point of this thread I have started. I just wanted to show you what we, in Judaism, have been taught for centuries about this passage, so that you can see what the Jews themselves say about this. I just want to present it to you, if you are interested. I’ll take questions and comments as long as they would not make connections with Jesus. That doesn’t mean that you can’t believe in any connection to Jesus, but that this discussion is not about it. Thank you for your comprehension.” Would it be O. K. with you, Ben?
And how about you, guys? I believe we could indeed learn from it as long as Ben would himself resist any temptation to allude anyhow about Jesus and our faith in ways that can make us indignated and angry. O.K.?
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**It’s okay with me, if I really understood what you mean. Or better put,
if you can handle this position without failing in the same attempt at studying it.

Ben: :confused:**
 
Lapell said:
Ben Masada;4958388:
Or to say what to you he was not. To do this, Ben, we’ll have to leave Jesus completely aside. Because to us he truly is, whether you like it or not…
This is a Catholic Forum, I have been telling you all along. When you speak this way, like it or not, you are inviting us to protest the very way you don’t want. So you’ll have to leave aside Jesus altogether.
What do you think of what I just proposed in my earlier post?
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**If you think this is gonna be possible, you can count with me. But I doubt it very much, because Jesus is the pivotal in this issue. Anyways, I’ll try my best.

Ben: :)**
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Ben_Masada said:
**Jesus never claimed to be the Messiah and therefore, he was never a blasphemer. Criminal and blasphemers are all those who claim he was what he was not.That’s because of these lies about Jesus that Jews have been persecuted throughout History in his name when he never had anything to do with it.

Ben: 😊**
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Wasn’t it because of fictitious books about a supposed plot by Jews, which books were a pack of lies, and because people were quick to jump at such conclusions?
 
The spear in the side and the resulting fluid was proof that Jesus was actually dead. One thing that we can compliment the Romans on was their ability to kill someone. The Romans were very brutal people. Did you know that if a Roman soldier fell asleep on guard duy, his fellow soldiers would be commanded to beat him to death? The Romans involved in a Crucifixion would not want to risk harsh punishment by allowing a condemned man to get off of a cross alive.
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Also, our word for “decimate” came from the Roman custom to kill every tenth man if they retreated in battle.

Now, you can understand why the priests had to bribe the Roman authorities to keep them from killing the soldiers who were guarding the Tomb and yet they (the soldiers) claimed to have fallen asleep and the disciples stole His body while they were sleeping–if they were sleeping how would they know who took the body?
 
deb1 said:
Ben Masada;4956864:
The spear in the side and the resulting fluid was proof that Jesus was actually dead. One thing that we can compliment the Romans on was their ability to kill someone. The Romans were very brutal people. Did you know that if a Roman soldier fell asleep on guard duy, his fellow soldiers would be commanded to beat him to death?:eek: The Romans involved in a Crucifixion would not want to risk harsh punishment by allowing a condemned man to get off of a cross alive.

.

Jospehus is a writer that I have meant to read. I understand that not all historians consider him 100% accurate. But I suppose that is an issue for a different thread.🙂
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**There was no spear-piercing at Jesus’ side. Read my thread about this. I try to explain why in that thread. Good luck!

Ben: :)**
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Lapell said:
Wasn’t it because of fictitious books about a supposed plot by Jews, which books were a pack of lies, and because people were quick to jump at such conclusions?
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**Well, my friend, the NT is one of those books, because that Jesus was killed as a result of a Jewish plot, I read in the NT. Even the Dictator Assad of Syria was caught on the TV by myself wondering why the Americans protect the killers of Jesus when it is all clear in the NT. What do you say?

Ben: :)**
 
Hi Ben.I have read some of Josephus’ writings. They are good from an historical perspective.Most history writers write from a biased point of view.I’m not condeming Josephus.His writings are accurate from his point of view, but antagonistic towards Christians.May I respectfully offer my point of view? #1.Jesus was a Devout Jew.#2.Is.11:1-5.One of Many referances to the Anointed One.#3.There is a VAST differance between an historiains writings and Inspired Writings.Some Books in sacred scripture are historical and Inspired(1,2 kings,Exodus etc.)They record history but go much deeper and give us "Spiritual’ lessons as well.I believe "All 73 Books of Holy Scripture are for our benefit.If you are a devout Jew,I assume you believe and adhere to the teachings of whichever sect you belong to(Reformed or whatever).I try to follow the teachings of the Church to the best of my ability with help and Grace from our Lord.Again let me say, I deeply appreciate Jewish People for handing on Sacred Scripture to all of us.May the Lord Bless you and your family,Rocky.
 
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