The Immaculate Heart of Mary is a heresy

[budgie2]

I think the whole idea of a deity becoming human, willingly offering Himself to be put to death, then rising and ascending into heaven, only to somehow remain on Earth as well, in the form of something that to all appearances is bread and wine but is in reality NOT bread and wine, sounds ridiculous as well. Of course I ALSO know, as you apparently do not, that the wisdom of God is foolishness to mere mortals like us, for scripture tells us so.

I am prepared to believe all these things about Jesus as they are part of the Gospel, my holy book. The Immaculate Conception and the Assumption are not based on any scriptural authority although you say have miracles to back them up. How do you know these miracles are true or have been properly researched? I am prepared to believe these things about Christ as I believe he is God aswell as man and he was conceived by the Holy Spirit. I am not prepared to believe that Mary was assumed to heaven as I do not believe she is divine and this is not part of our Gospel and scripture.

 

[Nick_in_MB]

I am prepared to believe all these things about Jesus as they are part of the Gospel, my holy book. The Immaculate Conception and the Assumption are not based on any scriptural authority although you say have miracles to back them up. How do you know these miracles are true or have been properly researched? I am prepared to believe these things about Christ as I believe he is God aswell as man and he was conceived by the Holy Spirit. I am not prepared to believe that Mary was assumed to heaven as I do not believe she is divine and this is not part of our Gospel and scripture.

Sounds like Sola Scriptura to me. Are you sure you’re Catholic?

 

[Holly3278]

I believe it is a heresy as it depicts Mary as both God and Woman, a divinity and goddess. Jesus said that he was the way to the Father and that we would know the Father through him. The Sacred Heart of Jesus shows both Christ’s humanity and divinity and is a divinely revealed statue. Mary could be represented as only having a flame in the place of her Immaculate Heart and the Sacred Heart could be placed in Mary’s womb. This would have a more pro-life message (not divinely revealed). This is not yet defined dogma but it will be. Flame represents the Holy Spirit as Mary was a holy woman although I believe the heart with sunrays should really represent God’s love. Sunrays are also used around the monstrance to represent the light of Christ’s soul, Jesus the light of the world.

media.photobucket.com/image/Immaculate%20Heart%20%25252Bimage/TwoHeartsAblaze/2708b1f5.jpg

Oh no. Don’t tell me that you, as a Catholic, have fallen into the heresy of believing that Catholics sometimes worship Mary? The Immaculate Heart of Mary is a perfectly orthodox devotion. It is one that I really like to be honest. Please do some research before condemning something that the Church has fully approved.

 

[1ke]

I am prepared to believe all these things about Jesus as they are part of the Gospel, my holy book.

Sola Scriptura (scripture alone) is a heresy.

The Church stands on both Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition, faithfully handed down from the Apostles. Both are divine revelation, equally.

You really need to study your Catholic faith more.

The Immaculate Conception and the Assumption are not based on any scriptural authority although you say have miracles to back them up.

You are incorrect on both counts. They are both implicit in Scripture. And, moreover, the “miracles” to back them up are NOT the basis of the teachings in any way. As has already been stated, private revelation is NOT part of the deposit of faith.

How do you know these miracles are true or have been properly researched?

It doesn’t matter whether you accept them or not. They are not the basis of the teachings of the Church, nor does the Church require anyone to accept any apparition or miracle.

I am prepared to believe these things about Christ as I believe he is God aswell as man and he was conceived by the Holy Spirit.

You are prepared to believe this because the Church says it is true, yet you are not willing to believe what the Church teaches about Mary.

I am not prepared to believe that Mary was assumed to heaven as I do not believe she is divine and this is not part of our Gospel and scripture.

You are denying a dogma of the faith by refusing to assent to the Assumption.

The second item is perfectly acceptable-- because the Church does not teach that Mary is divine. She is human. No problem there.

 

[budgie2]

There is absolutely no biblical basis for the doctrine of the Assumption. We know that Jesus ascended into heaven due to eyewitness accounts of the apostles in Acts. Acts 1:9-11
After he [Jesus] said this he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from sight. They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”

The Ascension is also mentioned in Luke 24:50-53 and Mark 16:19.

There are absolutely no eyewitness accounts documented in the Bible for the Assumption even though Mary was with the apostles at Pentecost. Therefore the Assumption is currently only theory and cannot be proved as fact. I declare it false!

 

[srlucado]

There is absolutely no biblical basis for the doctrine of the Assumption. …
I declare it false!

Great, thanks for pointing that out.

Have you brought this up with your local diocese? I’m sure they’ll want to know that you are now the authority on these matters.

Just think of the money they’ll save on phone calls to the Vatican.

 

[Nick_in_MB]

There is absolutely no biblical basis for the doctrine of the Assumption. We know that Jesus ascended into heaven due to eyewitness accounts of the apostles in Acts. Acts 1:9-11
After he [Jesus] said this he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from sight. They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”

The Ascension is also mentioned in Luke 24:50-53 and Mark 16:19.

There are absolutely no eyewitness accounts documented in the Bible for the Assumption even though Mary was with the apostles at Pentecost. Therefore the Assumption is currently only theory and cannot be proved as fact. I declare it false!

So when did you become Pope?

edited to add…
Okay, that might be a little harsh. But really, it’s simple. You either accept the authority of the Church, or you don’t. And proclaiming things such as this, comes across as you don’t. Sola Scriptura.

If I were to go into conspiracy theory mode, I’d say you saying that you’re Catholic (as indicated in the upper right hand corner of all posts) is to mislead us; to just come on here under the guise of being Catholic just to try to show us Catholics where we are wrong.

 

[FCEGM]

This has to be one of the best posts I have read in a while. I might even print it off…

Dittos!!

 

[FCEGM]

I am prepared to believe all these things about Jesus as they are part of the Gospel, my holy book. The Immaculate Conception and the Assumption are not based on any scriptural authority although you say have miracles to back them up. How do you know these miracles are true or have been properly researched? I am prepared to believe these things about Christ as I believe he is God aswell as man and he was conceived by the Holy Spirit. I am not prepared to believe that Mary was assumed to heaven as I do not believe she is divine and this is not part of our Gospel and scripture.

Then you are falsely presenting yourself as a Catholic. :tsktsk:

A Catholic’s faith is based upon God’s gift to believe all that is taught by Christ through His Catholic Church. The Magisterium of His Church, preserves the original Self-Revelation of Christ, both through Sacred Oral Tradition and the written Scriptures that the Church itself had the authority to determine just was to be included in those Scriptures.

Further, a Catholic thinks with the Church, not in opposition to it - especially so erroneously as you persist in doing here. It’s funny how the heterodox always presume that there own positions come from some deeper spiritual insight and anointing, but that the objective teachings of the Church are so much mythology based on an erroneous theology as to be easily dismissed by the cognoscenti. Those such as yourself find it unreasonable to believe divinely-established apostolic authority in the arena of its competence, i.e., faith and morals. Rather, you accept as gospel your own judgment in that area as if it counted more than that of the Magisterium of Christ’s Church and prefer to obey blindly your own judgment as competent. Your persistent salivating over your peculiar little tidbit of belief (or disbelief) leads to the swallowing of a whole lot of heresy.

 

[budgie2]

As for Enoch and Elijah, if you believe these ascended to heaven body and soul then you also believe that they are physically immortal. I do not believe that anybody is physically immortal from birth as this goes against the Nicene Creed and the Apostle Creed which states belief in the resurrection of the body and life everlasting following resurrection. Therefore you believe Enoch, Elijah aswell as Mary were physically immortal although Christ had to die and be resurrected. I do not accept this and I believe only Christ ascended to heaven body and soul. This is my firm belief.

Muslims also believe Mohamed ascended to heaven which they believe is divided into seven skies or heavens. Here’s an extract from answers. yahoo.com:

answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080528043501AAoOrr5

“After the Prophet took this night journey from Masjid al-Haram to Masjid al-Aqsa, he ascended to the upper heavens. The Prophet ascended to the heaven on stairs, called al-mirqat, in which one step is made of gold and the next of silver, and so on. These stairs are veiled from us.”

 

[AdriannaJean]

As for Enoch and Elijah, if you believe these ascended to heaven body and soul then you also believe that they are physically immortal.

No, if we believe this then we believe what the Bible says. You say that you believe only what the Bible says regarding the assumption of Mary, yet here you say that you do not believe what the Bible says regarding Enoch and Elijah. If you are going to argue, at least do it in a way that is internally-consistent.

I do not accept this and I believe only Christ ascended to heaven body and soul. This is my firm belief.

That’s fine and dandy, now stop calling yourself a Catholic.

And what does Mohammed have to do with any of this?

 

[AdriannaJean]

Budgie,

I understand that you are having difficulties with this particular dogma. Have you talked to priests about this? Have you approached this in a way that is seeking truth, not trying to prove yourself correct? You seem to only want argument and not explanation. You disregard everything sensical that anyone has said, and only focus on reiterating what you have said previously. Don’t ask questions if you don’t want them answered.

 

[Nick_in_MB]

Muslims also believe Mohamed ascended to heaven which they believe is divided into seven skies or heavens. Here’s an extract from answers. yahoo.com:

So, you’re unwilling to accept that Mary was assumed into heaven, since it’s not in the Bible. But yet you’re willing to accept that Mohamed ascended into heaven. Where’s that in the Bible?

 

[budgie2]

I’m off work so I’ve got time to answer. What I am trying to say is that you portray Mary as a false prophet in the same line as Mohamed by declaring that she was assumed/ ascended into heaven. I am only prepared to believe in the Ascension of Christ which is in the Gospel of Luke, Mark and in the Acts of the Apostles. There are some people here who say I am not a Catholic because I do not believe in the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption. However I believe that Christ was conceived by the Holy Spirit and God was his father, that he died and was resurrected and ascended into heaven. I also believe in the Eucharist, Confession and the other sacraments. I also believe the Gospel is the word of God. Is the belief in the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption how you define yourself as Catholics? Do you believe you will be saved by Mary’s Immaculate Conception and Assumption when there is no biblical basis for either of these two things? The Immaculate Conception and the Assumption are minor Marian heresies.

 

[Nick_in_MB]

So, you’re a cafeteria Catholic at best, since you refuse to accept certain parts of Church teaching. You’re going with Bible alone, which is a heresy itself. And you refuse to accept certain parts of the Bible itself.

 

[juliamajor]

He states himself as “Catholic” then proceeds to say Catholics believe this and that not"We Believe". He is not Catholic . He is a troll .He doesn’t know the basics.
At least he should be honest about who he really is and stop pretending to be Catholic.

 

[budgie2]

Yes, I do go to Costa. Do they have Costa over there in your part of the world? Or Starbucks. Who’s the troll? You lot are Minor Marian Heretics. I will call you all Mohamedans.

Repent and believe the Good News.

 

[srlucado]

Yes, I do go to Costa. Do they have Costa over there in your part of the world? Or Starbucks. Who’s the troll? You lot are Minor Marian Heretics. I will call you all Mohamedans.

Repent and believe the Good News.

Well, you’ve completely convinced me.

Not that you’re right, of course–but that you’re delusional.

 

[Good_Fella]

I suppose these two pictures of Mary and Christ could be interpreted differently but Mary should only resemble Christ in physical aspect as I’ve said before.

So Mary’s interior life means nothing? Her undivided love of God and her love for fallen humankind? It was because of her perfect love that Mary collaborated with God and freely consented to conceive and bear our Lord and Saviour. She emulated her divine Son in his spiritual aspects. And she loved Jesus immeasurably more than any other human being with a motherly love which she also offers to us brethren of the Lord.

The way we came to know love was that he laid down his life for us; so we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.
1 John 3, 16

Beloved, let us love one another, because love is of God; everyone who loves is begotten by God and knows God. Whoever is without love does not know God, for God is love.
1 John 4, 7-8

No one has ever seen God. yet if we love one another, God remains in us, and his love is brought to perfection in us.
1 John 4, 12

“And you yourself a sword will pierce so that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.”
Luke 2, 35

“She cooperated through charity in the work of our redemption.”
St. Augustine

Pax Christu :harp:

 

[juliamajor]

Yes, I do go to Costa. Do they have Costa over there in your part of the world? Or Starbucks. Who’s the troll? You lot are Minor Marian Heretics. I will call you all Mohamedans.

Repent and believe the Good News.

Checkmate!
It is obvious you know nothing about devotions or metaphors or imagination or anything else that can lead to a rich interior life.Too bad.So sad!