The Incarnation?

[M0nkey]

So a question on the Trinity: when Jesus became incarnate, born of the virgin Mary, was He ‘added’ a second nature then? Or was the holy trinity the same from the beginning? It’s difficult for me to imagine God would suddenly gain a second nature and therefore change. Anyway, how does that work? The word incarnate freely choosing to be in the flesh, hence His dual nature, but remaining to be the same. By the by, I can take ‘I don’t know’ for an answer.

 

[FCEGM]

So a question on the Trinity: when Jesus became incarnate, born of the virgin Mary, was He ‘added’ a second nature then? Or was the holy trinity the same from the beginning? It’s difficult for me to imagine God would suddenly gain a second nature and therefore change. Anyway, how does that work? The word incarnate freely choosing to be in the flesh, hence His dual nature, but remaining to be the same. By the by, I can take ‘I don’t know’ for an answer.

More precisely, the Second Person of the Most Holy Trinity took on a human nature in His Incarnation as the Man Jesus. The Divinity of the Second Person of the Most Holy Trinity did not/does not change; iow, His Divinity is not in any manner altered or aided by the fact of His Incarnation as Man (neither is the Trinity changed). With Christ Jesus, the Person of God the Son is united to a Human Soul, but that Human Soul is not necessary for the existence of God the Son. By His immense condescension He took upon Himself a Human Body and Soul, but that does not change or limit the Person Who has united Himself to the Human Soul of Jesus.

 

[Giovanni]

" Now one which is a bit outside the box trying to explain the Trinity. Talking to my kids about it, my 11 year old daughter brought up one theory, Mitosis. Hmmm, interesting, now God wouldn’t, I mean if it could happen to such simple organisms, I mean a cell is as simple as it gets and God is infinite and are we overlooking the simplest of possibilities making things harder than they truly are.

upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e0/Major_events_in_mitosis.svg/800px-Major_events_in_mitosis.svg.png

So when Jesus said, who has seen me has seen the Father, does it apply here.
Just a thought."

The above was a response I had in a different forum, what is interesting about it is that a couple nights ago I was watching a show on the National Geographic channel, and the discussion was about the origin of the universe. To get a better understanding on the birth of the universe scientist are looking at atoms in a supercollider, to get some a better understanding of the Big Bang Theory and what happens, now again as in the Mitosis theory my daughter brought up, they are looking at the smallest of particles to understand the infinite universe.
Maybe it’s just me, but I see a relation there.
Just a thought.

 

[M0nkey]

…

FCEGM, thank you for your response. I have one further question: so is the God-man still in His second nature? Or has He been transformed at the resurrection and ascension.

Thanks,

 

[zach_dunn]

FCEGM, thank you for your response. I have one further question: so is the God-man still in His second nature? Or has He been transformed at the resurrection and ascension.

Thanks,

Jesus, after the resurrection, now has what is called a “glorified” body. I think He still retains His human nature but His glorified body will never age or decay and is as beautiful as it can possibly be. All of those who are in heaven on the last day will get a glorified body when Jesus resurrects all of them.

I believe this is the teaching, if it’s wrong could someone please correct me?

Pax,
Zach

 

[Fidelis]

Jesus, after the resurrection, now has what is called a “glorified” body.** I think He still retains His human nature** but His glorified body will never age or decay and is as beautiful as it can possibly be. All of those who are in heaven on the last day will get a glorified body when Jesus resurrects all of them.

I believe this is the teaching, if it’s wrong could someone please correct me?

Pax,
Zach

You are correct; Jesus does still retain his human nature.

 

[RosaryFan]

You are correct; Jesus does still retain his human nature.

So Jesus and His mother, Mary, are two physical beings in heaven. I know this is off the subject, but I really think that’s a comfort - knowing that Heaven isn’t just a “state of mind”, but a real tangible physical place. It’s pretty awesome!!

 

[M0nkey]

It’s pretty awesome!!

Yea, this is what moved me at first that God is not some kind of nebulous ideal out in the ether, but a palpable Being who condescended and became part of His own creation without ceasing to be God. Really makes you get down on your knees to know that a loving Creator is willing to down that far for our little souls.

I read this in one of C.S. Lewis’ books and I’ll paraphrase, ‘Hell may be whatever you want it to be, but Heaven is Reality itself!’

 

[DonHudzinski]

Marriage an Incarnation
by Donald F Hudzinski

Marriage by its very nature is incarnate. This is its definition defined by God with the birth of His Son. The first Adam’s marriage was incarnate until it fell and he and his wife left the garden. Marriage is a one flesh union, but who became your flesh, the answer is the Incarnation.

A man does not become the flesh of a woman nor does a woman become the flesh of a man, so if marriage is a one flesh union, this can only be achieved through Christ, through the Incarnation.

Have you not herd men say, “I did not what to did like my dad, but I am just like him” or a woman say, “I did not want to be like my mother, but I am just like her”. How come we are not saying, “I did not what to be like Christ, but I am just like Him”? Could be that our marriages are not Incarnate, but how can this be. Maybe it is because “I love you” is pagan and comes from romance novels.

What should we say, when our children ask, “Do you love mommy’? What about saying, “Mommy loves Christ and I love Christ and we all love Christ”. The first commandment say, “We love the Lord Our God with all our minds, all our heart and all our strength and the second is like it, we love our neighbor as ourself” This is not a counter diction because of the Incarnation. We love each other because of our love of Christ, not in spite of that love.

The Incarnation is the marriage of man and God, this is true marriage, and sets the standard for all marriages, as does the marriage of Saint Joseph and Mary, the first incarnate marriage since the marriage of Adam and Eve. This is why we must see Saint Joseph and Mary as the the new Adam and Eve, because all our marriage need to be Incarnate.

All of our marriages need to be Incarnate, and this is accomplished by God through the Eucharist which is the Incarnation of our marriages.

As I thought about the Covenant, the Eucharist, the Incarnation and my wedding day, these vows came to mind.

The man says to his wife, “Blessed are you among women and blessed is the fruit of your womb, for it shall bear my children”.

Then the wife says to her husband, “Blessed are you among men and blessed be the seed which bring forth the fruit of my womb, my children”.

Then on the day of the priest ordination he says, “Blessed is this patten and this cup, for they shall bring forth the Body and Blood of our Lord and make us a new creation in Christ”.

Then when the priest elevates his gifts above the alter, so does the husband and wife, thus becoming one family in Christ. In this way the love of Christ is born, and the Church comes alive with the Spirit. The covenant of marriage is the very heart of the Church, because by it, all life is elevated to the heights of heaven. It is this that gives man and woman the dignity they deserve, and our Church the resource it needs to survive the culture of death.

This is what love does, it elevates the other, in service and thanksgiving, thus the Eucharist becomes in truth, a thanks offering.

To bless something is to set that something apart from all other of its kind, for a specific purpose, and to guard it. This setting apart creates human dignity. It makes us what we are to be, holy, for to be holy is to be elevated by another, especially Christ. This is to participate in Christ ministry, of the Eucharist, it elevates all who participate into heaven. How is this done, by making a gift of yourself.

Do you not see how the story of Adam and Eve repeats itself in the nativity story? Eve brings Adam fruit and he eats of it and we have a guard, who fell with his wife, and death entered. Mary brings Saint Joseph the fruit of her womb and he guards it and we live again. The Arc of the Covenant goes beyond the womb of Mary unto the marriage of the Holy Family, a true picture of marriage as it should be Incarnate.

The archetype of Adam is the priesthood and of Eve the laity. Our priesthood should look to Saint Joseph as their guide because he shows them how to guard the Real Presence, our Incarnation and his bride, the laity.

 

[anon5216]

Indian spirituality has (IMO) a much more advanced understanding of Incarnation than the Church.

It’s an interesting area of study if your faith is strong enough to look at concepts that don’t have the Church’s nihil obstat.

 

[fellowChristian]

IN BRIEF

479
At the time appointed by God, the only Son of the Father, the eternal Word, that is, the Word and substantial Image of the Father, became incarnate; without losing his divine nature he has assumed human nature.

**480 **
Jesus Christ is true God and true man, in the unity of his divine person; for this reason he is the one and only mediator between God and men.

**481 **
Jesus Christ possesses two natures, one divine and the other human, not confused, but united in the one person of God’s Son.

**482 **
Christ, being true God and true man, has a human intellect and will, perfectly attuned and subject to his divine intellect and divine will, which he has in common with the Father and the Holy Spirit.

483
The Incarnation is therefore the mystery of the wonderful union of the divine and human natures in the one person of the Word.

ARTICLE 3
“HE WAS CONCEIVED BY THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT,
AND WAS BORN OF THE VIRGIN MARY”
usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect2chpt2art3.shtml#p1

 

[Jerry_Marino]

So a question on the Trinity: when Jesus became incarnate, born of the virgin Mary, was He ‘added’ a second nature then? Or was the holy trinity the same from the beginning? It’s difficult for me to imagine God would suddenly gain a second nature and therefore change. Anyway, how does that work? The word incarnate freely choosing to be in the flesh, hence His dual nature, but remaining to be the same. By the by, I can take ‘I don’t know’ for an answer.

each 3 persons are equal in their attributes and nature but differ in how the relate to the world and to each other. each of 3 persons of the Godhead are divine, have equal attributes: omniscience, omnipresence, holiness. it is universally accepted as true that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are each divine, holy, unchanging.

God says, “For I, the Lord, do not change,” malachi 3:6. since God is a trinity, then God has always been a trinity.

The Bible does not explain how this inter-trinitarian relationship of 3 persons in order to accomplish the will of the single God. but there is no logical necessity that says the distinction of wills means that the trinity cannot act with 1 will.

but, ‘what is impossible for man is possible for God’
God bless you

fyi
gotten of the internet carm.org

 

[fellowChristian]

At the begining of the book of John we learn that the “Word” is someone, not something.

1 In the beginning was the Word: the Word was with God and the Word was God.

2 He was with God in the beginning.

3 Through him all things came into being, not one thing came into being except through him.

4 What has come into being in him was life, life that was the light of men;

5 and light shines in darkness, and darkness could not overpower it.

And if you look at the begining of the book of Genesis you’ll notice God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

Genesis 1
1 In the beginning God created heaven, and earth.

God the Father

2 And the earth was void and empty, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and **the spirit of God **moved over the waters.

God the Holy Spirit

3 And God said: Be light made. And light was made.

The Word of God, before He came in the flesh, Jesus

26 God said, “Let **us **make man in our own image, in the likeness of ourselves, and let them be masters of the fish of the sea, the birds of heaven, the cattle, all the wild animals and all the creatures that creep along the ground.”

The Holy Trinity

Back to the book of John

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

15 John beareth witness of him, and crieth out, saying: This was he of whom I spoke: He that shall come after me, is preferred before me:** because he was before me**.

16 And of his fullness we all have received, and grace for grace.

17 For the law was given by Moses; grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

18 No man hath seen God at any time: **the only begotten Son **who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Begotten =1. spawn, sire, breed, father, (esp. of a male parent) to procreate or generate (offspring).

Our children share our nature,they are human beings because we are.

Jesus shares His Fathers nature, He is God because the Father is God.

Jesus also shares His mothers nature,He is human because she is human.

All of us have one nature we are human.

Jesus has two natures He is both human and Divine at the same time, because of His parents.

And because Jesus is one with His Church His Church is both human and Divine

The Catechism of the Catholic Church
I. “In the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit”
usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect2chpt1art1p2.shtml