The infallable pope

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Peter J Here is what Father told me. He said that the Pope is infallable in his teaching of the Church. He told me alot of things I really never quite understood.

He said that as far as scripture and being infallable in scripture all of the Bishops. Priests, etc have it. He said that the Pope is not the only one who is infallable. They all have the gift of the Holy Spirit, He just said the Pope is the leader of the Church. He said (and this i never knew) That when Jesus picked Peter and His brother Andrew he told them they would be fishermen of Men. They BOTH were leaders. Peter went one way Andrew went the other. He also told me that and this I did know that the reason we are called Roman Catholic is because Peter started the church in Rome.

He said the only thing thats different in the other Catholic Religions are really customs, the way they go about things are a little different, Because in those days they didnt have a way of staying in communication like today.

He said ALL of the CATHOLIC CHURCHS ARE THE SAME. That they all hace the 7 Sacraments. He said thats all that counts.
 
Hi rinnie,

Thanks for getting back to me.

Without going line-by-line through everything in post #381, the question I’d like to ask you is, Are you satisfied or do you still believe that the Pope is infallible whenever he teaches anything about faith and morals?
 
mercygate said:
Circles of Purgatory? Dante beat you by about 700 years. But if Constantine was baptized on his death bed, ALL sin and penalty for sin was removed totally. Straight through ticket up.
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Except he was baptized by an Arian Bishop on his deathbed…
 
elts1956 said:
The more I think, the more confused I get. Apparently, according to some explainers, there have been only two infallible dogmas proclaimed since??? but in steps the rule, “No women priests”. Now I am thinking that is an infallbile teaching, BUT not a dogma BUT Tradition. I would sure like to see where each of the Teachings of the Church fall, Dogma or Sacred Tradition, or even tradition. Sooooooo confusing.
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In a nutshell, it boils down to this: According to Vatican I, two conditions have to be met for in order for a teaching to be considered protected by papal infallibility. First, the pope has to be teaching on faith or morals (scientific teachings, or opinions - e.g. who is the best team in the NFL - don’t apply). Second, the pope has to be teaching ex cathedra, that is, from the chair of Peter. In other words, the pope has to be speaking as head of the Catholic Church and binding the entire Church to the teaching in question. If either of these conditions are not met, then papal infallibility does not come into play.

It is also important to remember that papal infallibility is not some sort of divine inspiration - it is not a case of the Holy Spirit positively prompting him to come up with some novel teaching. Rather, it is a **negative **protection - when the pope does teach according to the above conditions, because of Christ’s promises to Peter and the Church the Holy Spirit prevents the pope from teaching error.

Now as to your confusion concerning the teaching on a male-only ordination. You must remember that there are two organs of infallibility. First is the extraordinary magisterium. This is basically the pope speaking *ex cathedra *on faith and morals as discussed above. The second is the ordinary magesterium, which is the constant teaching of the Church and her bishops in union with the pope.

The teaching concerning male-only ordination is an example of an infallible teaching through the ordinary magesterium. In other words, it is the constant teaching of the Church since Christ founded her. Pope JP II did not issue an *ex cathedra *teaching on the topic in Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, rather he just officially stated the existing infallible doctrine of the Church.

For more information, I recommend reading the responsum ad dubium concerning the issue written by the the Cardinal Ratzinger:
This teaching requires definitive assent, since, founded on the written Word of God, and from the beginning constantly preserved and applied in the Tradition of the Church, it has been set forth infallibly by the ordinary and universal Magisterium (cf. Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution on the Church Lumen Gentium 25, 2). Thus, in the present circumstances, the Roman Pontiff, exercising his proper office of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32), has handed on this same teaching by a formal declaration, explicitly stating what is to be held always, everywhere, and by all, as belonging to the deposit of the faith.
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ewtn.com/library/curia/cdfrespo.htm
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How many infallible teachings has the Church declared and what are they?
 
Peter_J said:
Hi rinnie,

Thanks for getting back to me.

Without going line-by-line through everything in post #381, the question I’d like to ask you is, Are you satisfied or do you still believe that the Pope is infallible whenever he teaches anything about faith and morals?
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this is kind of like a trick question Peter, the way he explained it to me only when is applied to the Magisterium of the Church. So unless im missing something in IMO i would still have to say yes.

Because the way I understand it the Pope and Bishops are authentic teachers (God gave them the authority to teach) the ordinary and universal Magisterium. Which includes the truth to believe, charity to practice and the beatitude to hope for.

Their Magisterium also extends to the specific precepts of the natural law, it extends to all levels of doctrine, including morals.

Now if you are asking me do I think that the Pope is infallable when he teaches ANYTHING about faith or morals, Are you asking through divine Revelation, if thats what you are asking again I still must say yes. Now if you are asking on his personal opinion, (that would be silly of course not). But Im saying on doctrines of the Church, and through Divine Revelation yes i still believe that.
 
ron77nyc said:
How many infallible teachings has the Church declared and what are they?
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You want examples?

Let me break down on faith and morals:

I. Faith.
  1. The Trinity: Belief that God is three Persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit but One God.
  2. The title of Mary, Mother of God which itself is centered on Jesus Christ Divinity or Theotokos.
  3. Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist.
  4. Assumption Mary’s body and soul into heaven.
  5. Mary Perpetual Virginity, and her Immaculate Conception.
  6. The Authority of the Papacy in union with the whole bishops of the Catholic Church (aka Magisterium).
  7. God alone saves.
  8. God’s established Seven Sacraments because Jesus Christ instituted these Sacraments. They belong to him.
  9. Life begins at the moment of conception.
II. Morality.

The Church always opposes these immoral acts.
  1. Abortion.
  2. Contraception.
  3. Homosexual Acts.
  4. Homosexual marriages.
  5. Euthanasia.
  6. Human Cloning.
  7. Adultery
  8. Murder.
III. Miscellenous.
  1. Women Priesthood is never allowed in the Church because Jesus established a male only priesthood.
If I miss any, someone will point that out to you. These teachings of the Church that are infallible. Most of them are spoken through the Ordinary Magisterium or Church Councils.
 
Mannyfit75 said:
You want examples?

The teaching on contraception, abortion, the Perpetual Virginity of Mary, the Trinity, The Immaculate Conception, the Assumption of Mary, the Real Presence of Eucharist, the immorality of homosexual acts, fornication, adultery, murder, euthanasia, cloning, the incarnation of God. What the church has taught in these subjects which I point out are infallible or cannot change. Morals cannot change. God’s ways is not our ways, our ways are not God’s ways.

The mind of the Church is the mind of God because it is the Holy Spirit who guides the Church to reveal these truths.
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No, I don’t want examples. Everyone has examples. I want to know how many infallible declarations have been made by the Church and what they are.
 
Mannyfit75 said:
Look at the above post. These are infallible.
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That does not answer my question. Those are not all. The Church has had 266 popes. They have everything documented. How many of those 266 popes taught infallibly and what did they teach?
 
ron77nyc said:
No, I don’t want examples. Everyone has examples. I want to know how many infallible declarations have been made by the Church and what they are.
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Um, the questions lies in what infallible is. If you know what that is, and how it is processed, you would know what teaching are infallible and which are not.
 
ron77nyc said:
That does not answer my question. Those are not all. The Church has had 266 popes. They have everything documented. How many of those 266 popes taught infallibly and what did they teach?
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Not all of them taught infallible. Only twice the Pope have use "EX CATHEDRA. The first one was the Immaculate Conception in mid 1800s and the second was 20th Century in the Assumption.

Most of what the Church has taught have been declare infallible or binding are from the Councils. For example, the Council of Ephesus in 431 AD taught and affirmed that Mary is the Theotokos or Mother of God, or the Council of Nicea which affirm that God is a Triune God.
 
In addition to the above statement, the Popes did wrote Encyclicals. Like the Pope Paul Sixth’s Humane Vitae. Though this is not a infallible document, it is a part of the Ordinary Magisterium, which Catholics are required to adhere too.
 
Mannyfit75 said:
Not all of them taught infallible. Only twice the Pope have use "EX CATHEDRA. The first one was the Immaculate Conception in mid 1800s and the second was 20th Century in the Assumption.

Most of what the Church has taught have been declare infallible or binding are from the Councils. For example, the Council of Ephesus in 431 AD taught and affirmed that Mary is the Theotokos or Mother of God, or the Council of Nicea which affirm that God is a Triune God.
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Thanks Manny. I already know those answers. My question is: “What are the complete infallible teachings from A-Z?”
 
Irene72 said:
Where in the bible does it mention the “election” of a pope and his “infalablity”? (not great spelling but you know what I mean)
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Ok, I’ve browsed thru the answers given in this thread and so far no one has hit on the straight answer found in the Gospels.

In the Gospels Jesus says to Peter: (and I paraphrase) You are Peter, you are rock and on this rock I will build my church.

To you I give the keys of heaven.

Whatever you bind on earth, will be bound in heaven; whatever you loosen on earth will be loosened in heaven.

Those whose sins you retain, will be retained; those whose sins you forgive will be forgiven.

Speaking of “this church” He also says that, " the gates of hell will not prevail against it".
 
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