The Interior Castle: depressing

[InJesusItrust]

I feel really grieved because St. Theresa wrote that God sends consolations to weak souls and it is better to never receive them in the earlier mansions, but I feel that I need the consolations that I am receiving from God (or is it a trick of the devil?). Does this mean that I will not be able to enter the seventh mansion?

Anyone else read this book?

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

If you are receiving them just be grateful for the gift. However, be prepared for the possibility that they might cease. We mustn’t get attached to them.

With God’s grace you will grow spiritually, no reason for you to stay in the lower mansion just because you are there now, according to the saint.

 

[nuntym]

+JMJ+

I feel really grieved because St. Theresa wrote that God sends consolations to weak souls and it is better to never receive them in the earlier mansions, but I feel that I need the consolations that I am receiving from God (or is it a trick of the devil?). Does this mean that I will not be able to enter the seventh mansion?

Anyone else read this book?

Just be grateful for anything and everything that God gives, whether consolations or crosses. To be grieved because of a supposed weakness on your part totally misses the point: you are MEANT to be weak, so that God may be powerful in your life. To receive consolations is to KNOW you are weak; to receive crosses is to FEEL you are weak. All things must show our wretchedness, that we may cling to God all the more.

[BIBLEDRB]2 Corinthians 12:10[/BIBLEDRB]

 

[animalis]

It is a hard way to the seventh mansion. The consolations have there benefit when your starting because they encourage you to deny your senses for you expect a reprieve. The way you practice mortification is a ‘vehicle’ that is the progress of purification.

The fact that there is no resting in the growth in contemplative prayer is the hardest thing for me to deal among the common issues that come up. You either progress in prayer, or you degress. One thing to keep in mind is that it doesn’t hurt so much that you want to enjoy God (and you will more so after the ‘dark nights’) what hurts is the pride that gets mixed in the enjoyment. So when you are compeled to do good spritual acts you do them with pride, and that is why we must journey with suffering.

What can hurt most often is the inexperience of a Spiritual Director. He or she is necessary in this pursuit of prefect love. S. Theresa says they are necessary (in her book ‘Life’) and so do other saints. There are other hurts you will come across other then wanting consolations. We on this narrow road have different passions we succum to and virtues to share.

The Catechism says, God "wills that each receive what he needs from others, and that those endowed with particular “talents” share the benefits with those who need them. These differences encourage and often oblige persons to practice generosity, kindness, and sharing of goods; they foster the mutual enrichment of cultures:

I distribute the virtues quite diversely; I do not give all of them to each person, but some to one, some to others. . . . I shall give principally charity to one; justice to another; humility to this one, a living faith to that one. . . . And so I have given many gifts and graces, both spiritual and temporal, with such diversity that I have not given everything to one single person, so that you may be constrained to practice charity towards one another. . . . I have willed that one should need another and that all should be my ministers in distributing the graces and gifts they have received from me."

So if you do have it easy inside of you, often enough someone will come on your path and make it more difficult. With the interaction of the person’s state in life, he or she will be primed to practice the virtues regardless of how one feels. And thereby grow in a community, the theater to grow in perfection.

 

[InJesusItrust]

+JMJ+

Just be grateful for anything and everything that God gives, whether consolations or crosses. To be grieved because of a supposed weakness on your part totally misses the point: you are MEANT to be weak, so that God may be powerful in your life. To receive consolations is to KNOW you are weak; to receive crosses is to FEEL you are weak. All things must show our wretchedness, that we may cling to God all the more.

[BIBLEDRB]2 Corinthians 12:10[/BIBLEDRB]

What troubles me is not really weakness but the thought that I will not be able to grow closer to God.

 

[CatherineOH]

What is a seventh mansion?

ummm… looks like the subject itself is over my head.
What are you all talking about?

 

[InJesusItrust]

The Interior Castle is a book by St. Theresa of Avila talking about mystical contemplation. She likened the soul to be a castle with many mansions and wrote on the journey to divine union with God.

 

[CatherineOH]

Ok, I’ll check it out…
It peaked my interest, and the hair on the back of my neck at the same time.
You see, the brief mention here reminded me of the words of one of my friends who is into the new age stuff and talks often of the chakras.

 

[JRKH]

What is a seventh mansion?

ummm… looks like the subject itself is over my head.
What are you all talking about?

A brief description…

In the Catholic Mystical tradition there are a number of Saints who have written very wonderful and helpful works on the Journey toward God. Most have described the journey as having three stages, the purgative, the illuminative, and the unitive. St Teresa is a little different in that she divides the journey into seven stages that she calls “mansions”. So the seventh mansion would be the complete and perfect union of the soul with God, it’s Love.

If you would like to read a well written compilation of the wisdom of several saints of this mystical tradition, I highly recommend the book in my signature. (it is not my book and I receive nothing from it’s promotion).

And do not worry about this stuff being “over your head”. It is actually simpler than much of the more “rational” and “logical” approaches that I’ve read and seen here which only tend to confuse me…
The mystical tradition tends to cut through a lot of the “underbrush” and gets to the root which is Love.

Hope this helps.

Peace
James

 

[InJesusItrust]

Is there a fee book like “The Fulfillment of all Desire”. I am not sure I can purchase this on Amazon or in the country I live in. Another book I am reading is “The Imitation of Christ”.

 

[KathleenGee]

I just saw the title of this thread while getting ready to leave here…

I would recommend some other work. ‘The Fulfillment of All Desire’ is a good intro into the ascetic life. But if such readings bring you into too much introspection, you are also leaving the benefits of being in the Church, and having your focus joined with the Lord and others.

He says where two or more are gathered, He is present. St Theresa’s writings are very good. It would be great to study her with another or third person as to avoid introspection and discouragement.

I know in the spiritual life, discouragement is brought about by depending on yourself, that is looking inward, instead of looking outward to the Lord.

I like the Franciscan way…each congregation has something to share with us. The Franciscans embrace joy. My friend told me she starts her day…‘This is the day the Lord has made! Let us rejoice and be glad!’

Claim joy!

 

[InJesusItrust]

Is it possible to pursue this without becoming a monk? I don’t think my state of life permits this.

 

[JRKH]

Is it possible to pursue this without becoming a monk? I don’t think my state of life permits this.

St Francis DeSales (one of the Saints quoted in “Fulfillment of all desire”) wrote a book called “Introduction to the Devout Life” specifically for people not in a monastic setting.

Peace
James

 

[trials]

Hey, I’m a massive fan of St. Teresa but one thing she would definitely advise against is feeling discouraged about where we “are” on our spiritual journey. She described the seven mansions at the request of her spiritual director for the benefit of her new foundations of nuns, but one hting Carmelites have advised me on several occasions is to never try and p(name removed by moderator)oint where we are on our journey - just trust in God and keep moving nearer to Him. the Bible says that if we try to come close to God, He will come close to us - that’s all you need to worry about. Are you trying (and probably failing like myself) to get closer to God - then that’s all there is to it.

It can be very discouraging at times to see people we think are holy, or on some higher spiritual level to us, we may be tempted to think, what’s the point in even trying? But remember we are all unique. Everyone is following their own individual path to God in the middle of their own particular circumstances, be they the busy world or the quiet cloisters, and as long as they keep moving towards God and striving for holiness, that is enough.

It isn’t about s competition in holiness either, it’s about a friendship with Christ, a relationship of love with God, so please don’t get bogged down wondering where you are on the path, or the devil might tempt you to give up the path altogether. I’m speaking from experience here - having become acquainted with a group of Carmelites and the works of St. Teresa, I initially felt totally disheartened believing I was nowhere near any of these higher levels. Now I’ve realised my point on the journey doesn’t matter - it’s perseverance that matters, falling down and getting up again, earnestly trying to get closer to God in every sphere of my life.

God bless

 

[FCEGM]

Is it possible to pursue this without becoming a monk? I don’t think my state of life permits this.

Yes, it is possible in any state of life. Monasticism provides the discipline and setting for the unitive way, but not all who enter the monastic life will enter the higher mansions described by St. Teresa. It depends not so much on where one is, but on the fidelity and perseverance in the state of life to which one has been called: monastic, missionary, married, single, etc… Consider that the Secular Order of Discalced Carmelites (lay men and women - married or single - who follow the spiritual heritage of St. Teresa) is made up of many many thousands around the world, all seeking God and the heights to which He may call them.

 

[animalis]

It is a hard way to the seventh mansion.

The above quote can lead to scandal so I wanted to admonish my own statement with a quote from a book that Pope Pius XII called the “golden book”: “Love is a great thing, a good above all others, which alone maketh every heavy burden light, and equaliseth every inequality. For it beareth the burden and maketh it no burden, it maketh every bitter thing to be sweet and of good taste. The surpassing love of Jesus impelleth to great works, and exciteth to the continual desiring of greater perfection.” (Imitation of Christ, 3, 5, 1) “Come to me, all you that labour, and are burdened, and I will refresh you. Take up my yoke upon you, and learn of me, because I am meek, and humble of heart: and you shall find rest to your souls.” (Mt 11: 28, 29)

The fact that there is no resting in the growth in contemplative prayer is the hardest thing for me to deal among the common issues that come up. You either progress in prayer, or you degress.

A Doctor of the Church, St. John of the Cross said, “And, what is worse, not only do they make no progress, but because of this attachment they fall back, lose that which they have gained, and retrace that part of the road along which they have travelled at the cost of so much time and labour; for it is well known that, on this road, not to go forward is to turn back, and not to be gaining is to be losing. This Our Lord desired to teach us when He said: ‘He that is not with Me is against Me; and he that gathereth not with Me scattereth’” (Ascent of Mount Carmel, 1, 11, 5)

One thing to keep in mind is that it doesn’t hurt so much that you want to enjoy God …

“But my soul shall rejoice in the Lord; and shall be delighted in his salvation.” (Ps [35]34:9)

“Delight in the Lord, and he will give thee the requests of thy heart.” (Ps [37]36:4)

“I remembered God, and was delighted, and was exercised, and my spirit swooned away.” (Ps [77]76:5, vulgate)

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort. Who comforteth us in all our tribulation…” ( 2 Cor 1:3, 4)

 

[KathleenGee]

May be at this particular time, to consult with your pastor. He will guide you.

Yes, there are good things to learn from the monks…fidelity to your daily duty and detachment – a great help in growing in Christ. But if you are just starting and are getting into a downer…you are getting possibly into spiritual knowledge that is not at the same level where you are actually at.

We can have various stages of perfection right now within us…the purgative, illuminative, and the unitive…where aspects of our will are in perfect conformity to the Lord’s will.

But, yes, I would talk to the priest about this…‘Desire of All Fulfillment’ gives you an historical overview, plus ‘tidbits’ of various masters of perfection…and what resonates in you may be your better choice to fit your personality. But likewise, you will probably approach the same with parallel teachers.

That is why Catholics many times do not endure with a particular spiritual master, and fall back on devotion to Mary, the rosary, Eucharistic Adoration, the Sacred Heart of Jesus…all helps in your growth in Christ and can fit the lay lifestyle.

 

[HonoraDominum]

Please forgive me if I am being too brazen, but I think starting to learn about contemplation by reading “The Interior Castle” is a bit like starting to learn about moral theology by starting with St. Thomas Aquinas’s Summa Theologica. In other words, the “milk before meat” philosophy of learning would be a good piece of advice to heed in this case.

The first thing I would recommend is getting on your knees and asking God to guide you where he wants you to be. Ask for a spiritual director, whether that person be your pastor, a holy friend, or a saint who talks to you through their writings. Commit to a certain amount of time to simple prayer and spending time with God each day. There have been times that I have spent a lot of time getting guidance in the confessional, and other times where St. Alphonsus Liguori or St. Therese of Lisieux have been guiding me through that portion of my life.

The most important part of a prayer life is simply praying - committing that time to be with God and to think about Him.

As another has recommended, a good starting point would be “Introduction to Devout Life” by St. Francis de Sales. If you strive to learn more about contemplation, I would highly recommend “Practing the Presence of God” by Brother Lawrence, or “Way of Perfection” by St. Teresa. But you may have another path right now - only the Holy Spirit can guide you where you need to go to grow closer to God right now.

I tried to start “Way of Perfection” 3-4 times and wasn’t able to get past chapter 4 or 5, then one day I picked it up and inhaled it in 2 weeks. Other times, I’ve spent months going through books very slowly - it took me probably close to 6 months to get through “Imitation of Christ”. So don’t get discouraged if you pick up a book and hit a wall. I have picked up “Dark Night of the Soul” a few times and not made it past the intro chapters. But someday I’ll finish it, I’m sure.

Also? I never made it past the Third Castle in “Interior Castle”. In reading the book, I mean.

 

[Lady_Love]

I am a woman and I very much like to try to control things even my spirituality. The only way to get closer to God is to surrender. Let Him drive and don’t give Him directions, it’s insulting. When you trust your driver you just relax and watch the scenery.

It is very much like being married. If you give Jesus praise, love, and attention you will automatically find Him desiring your beauty and trusting Himself to you.

“Do not awaken Love until it so desires.” Song of Solomon