The Internet is Killing The Remnant

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commenter said:
I don’t give the SPLC any credibility.
Re: “catch-all terms” Any generalization has drawbacks. Consider the differences among these: “Catholics for Choice”; “Network”; “Call to Action”; “National Catholic Reporter”. They are not identical. But all are outside the authority of the Catholic Church. That common element is important.

The same holds true for the groups you mentioned. There’s a slippery slope here, when people a few feet outside the Magisterium point out there are wild-eyed fanatics farther out there - that makes our position ok. But some of those wild-eyed ones once stood where you now stand.

It would be a mistake to demand special recognition for groups - on the Left or Right - a few feet outside. Outside is still outside.
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But The Remnant is not “outside.” Yes, it questions some of the pope’s actions and statements. That doesn’t mean it’s heretical. Yet as has happened on this thread, it’s associated with “radical traditionalists.” And using a term coined by the SPLC does give it credibility, whether we want it to or not. As far as I know, there’s no comparable term used to describe all of the groups you identified – they’re simply known as “outside the authority of the Catholic Church,” which doesn’t hold the connotations that “rad trads” does. (Though I’m not even certain that the Church identifies all of them as “outside” – I’ve never seen a decree from the Vatican regarding the National Catholic Reporter, for example.)
 
gracepoole said:
I’ve never seen a decree from the Vatican regarding the National Catholic Reporter, for example.)
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I thought, the Vatican let the local bishops’ handle things within their dioceses. So no, you wouldn’t see a decree from the Vatican.

The National Catholic Reporter was asked in 1968, by then, Bishop Charles Helmsin to remove “Catholic” from their name. Then in 2013, Bishop Finn try to dialog with the National Catholic Reporter to no avail.

“From my perspective, NCR’s positions against authentic Church teaching and leadership have not changed trajectory in the intervening decades,” said Bishop Finn.

Bishop Finn: National Catholic Reporter…
 
gracepoole said:
But The Remnant is not “outside.” Yes, it questions some of the pope’s actions and statements. That doesn’t mean it’s heretical.
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This group is outside of the authority of the Church. All of those mentioned were. That does not mean it is heretical. It only means that it is literally not under any authoritative episcopal oversight. It is not an apostolate of the Catholic Church, having been approved by the territorial bishop and operating with his permission in his diocese.
No, they are nothing like Catholics for a Free Choice. First, they follow canon law and do not use the name “Catholic”. (something NCR does *not *do, btw). However all of these groups have one commonality and that is the danger to stray from Church teaching. They may, or they may not. Each one has to be evaluated on its own merit.

A group like Catholic Answers though must answer to the bishop of the diocese if there is a question of orthodoxy. They are approved and use the name “Catholic” with permission.
 
gracepoole said:
Yes, CAL used it. But I wouldn’t say they used it well. The programs they’ve done on so-called radical traditionalism haven’t provided much of a definition and instead have been a strange, confused mash-up of traditionalists, sedevacantists, and the SSPX. Perhaps this is why it’s dangerous to use a term that wasn’t born in Catholicism to describe facets of Catholicism.
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Well said.

I have many friends who would be considered in the ‘traditionalist’ camp who actively recruit SSPX members back to a more properly sanctioned Church. Many of them go to the EF every week.
 
gracepoole said:
But The Remnant is not “outside.” Yes, it questions some of the pope’s actions and statements. That doesn’t mean it’s heretical. Yet as has happened on this thread, it’s associated with “radical traditionalists.”
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As far as I know, they are not in obedience to their local ordinary, or to the last few, at least.

It is not unfair to refer to them as in* some ways* similar to other groups in that same situation, keeping in mind there are other features that are different between the Remnant and other groups. But being outside the authority of the Church is not insignificant. Name calling or personal attacks are never ok, so let’s drop “rad-trads”. But it is fair to point out that this ministry, or that TLM chapel, have no guidance from any bishop-ordinary. That is the reality. They may happen to be right about some things, but it is hard to identify when they are reliable, and when not. You don’t know what they may be omitting.

It is fair to draw a line between those ministries or religious orders that have the benefit of this guidance and obedience, and those who do not.
The problem with the Remnant is what they are lacking.

Caveat Emptor.
 
FYI - Here is a link from the map kept by the Diocese of Minneapolis and St. Paul showing all the Catholic ministries in the diocese. The Remnant is located in the town of Forest Lake where there are no diocesan lay ministries. This should be enough to know they are not associated with the Church, though it in no way reflects on the individuals that run it, their product or their purpose.

archspm.org/places/#
 
pnewton said:
This group is outside of the authority of the Church. All of those mentioned were. That does not mean it is heretical. It only means that it is literally not under any authoritative episcopal oversight. It is not an apostolate of the Catholic Church, having been approved by the territorial bishop and operating with his permission in his diocese.
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I see – yes, by this definition, The Remnant is outside the authority of the Church.
commenter said:
As far as I know, they are not in obedience to their local ordinary, or to the last few, at least.

It is not unfair to refer to them as in* some ways* similar to other groups in that same situation, keeping in mind there are other features that are different between the Remnant and other groups. But being outside the authority of the Church is not insignificant. Name calling or personal attacks are never ok, so let’s drop “rad-trads”. But it is fair to point out that this ministry, or that TLM chapel, have no guidance from any bishop-ordinary. That is the reality. They may happen to be right about some things, but it is hard to identify when they are reliable, and when not. You don’t know what they may be omitting.

It is fair to draw a line between those ministries or religious orders that have the benefit of this guidance and obedience, and those who do not.
The problem with the Remnant is what they are lacking.

Caveat Emptor.
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I’m all for doing away with the term “rad trad”! Though of course it should be obvious that if we do away with the shortened version of the term, we should probably do away with the full title. Identifying this publication as not having the guidance of its local bishop does not mean it’s teaching heresy, nor does it mean that the term “radical traditionalism” should be used in any context or that this term actually has a concrete, meaningful definition (it doesn’t). It also should be fairly easy to determine when a publication is reliable and when it isn’t if one knows the faith.
 
The Remnant should be gone and Our Holy Faith would be better off with out them and We should pray for them along with the SSPX to rejoin the Church
 
Trad_Catholic27 said:
The Remnant should be gone and Our Holy Faith would be better off with out them and We should pray for them along with the SSPX to rejoin the Church
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The Remnant hasn’t left the Church. First, it’s a newspaper, not a religious organization offering sacraments (or even spiritual direction), so it’s improper to liken it to the SSPX. Second, the editor and his family, who are primarily responsible for its production and oversee its content, attend a diocesan-approved Mass.
 
I know that they are a newspaper however it seems to be heavily critical of Vatican 2 which is worrying to me.
 
“Even if one stops calling a spade “a spade”, it will cut you if you grab it by the edge” (B.D’C)

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