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SwissGuard
Guest
I think your screenname says it all…although technically I guess it should be “Sold on Legit Sacraments”
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Area_Man
Guest
Who are “They?”
Anyway…
Galatians 3: 26-29
26You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
To me this means, there is no “us and them” but only “we” who have been baptized into Christ.
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soldonsacramnts
Guest
quote: by area man.
To me this means, there is no “us and them” but only “we” who have been baptized into Christ
if you can try not to personalize some thing that is not personal. Catholics are not the ones doing the seperating. That why catholics rever to non catholics as seperated BRETHERN. Most of these seperated breathern refer to catholics as confused and margianl christians or just plain un christian. If one must see a “us and them” see it as “us” who are united to the fullness of the historic christian faith and “them” who hold only to modern traditions held by the founders of their paticuliar christian sect. ie.-The Me, God, and my bible (Sola Scriptura) tradition.
its not about union with Christ, its about How we unite to Christ and the level of tranforming power therein.
To me this means, there is no “us and them” but only “we” who have been baptized into Christ
if you can try not to personalize some thing that is not personal. Catholics are not the ones doing the seperating. That why catholics rever to non catholics as seperated BRETHERN. Most of these seperated breathern refer to catholics as confused and margianl christians or just plain un christian. If one must see a “us and them” see it as “us” who are united to the fullness of the historic christian faith and “them” who hold only to modern traditions held by the founders of their paticuliar christian sect. ie.-The Me, God, and my bible (Sola Scriptura) tradition.
its not about union with Christ, its about How we unite to Christ and the level of tranforming power therein.
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Peace-bwu
Guest
It cant be one church cause it would have to be catholic. Everybody knows it cant be the catholic church They have embraced herisy like worsiping mary and canibalism.
When one is steeped in prejudice reason must be set aside or wallowing in unknown ignorance like the worshiping mary thing.
Wow this sums up my mother- in-laws view of the Church. Her pope is Robert Schuler (sorry if I mispelled) She wandered various denominations with her children until her daughter requested Lutheran (her husband is a former Lutheran) My Mother and Sister in law both became Lutherans but when my husband, at that time a teenager, realized that they didn’t believe in the True Presence he declined membership. He found his home when he found me and learned that there was a Church with the True Presence he found through reading Scripture. (Thank God for miracles) My MIL finally decided that she didn’t think they should serve wine during Lutheran Communion and she doesn’t want to deal with other people, so she attends services at the Crystal Cathedral in her living room. In her expeience no denomination has ever “gotten it right” and she is so prejudiced against Catholics that she spouts all kinds of things like “They worship the Pope and Mary and it was all an invented religion of men.” No matter how many times I have explained, she will not hear. She often explains “you can’t see the church, it is in our hearts.” The prejudice factor is a big stumbling block for our family.
When one is steeped in prejudice reason must be set aside or wallowing in unknown ignorance like the worshiping mary thing.
Wow this sums up my mother- in-laws view of the Church. Her pope is Robert Schuler (sorry if I mispelled) She wandered various denominations with her children until her daughter requested Lutheran (her husband is a former Lutheran) My Mother and Sister in law both became Lutherans but when my husband, at that time a teenager, realized that they didn’t believe in the True Presence he declined membership. He found his home when he found me and learned that there was a Church with the True Presence he found through reading Scripture. (Thank God for miracles) My MIL finally decided that she didn’t think they should serve wine during Lutheran Communion and she doesn’t want to deal with other people, so she attends services at the Crystal Cathedral in her living room. In her expeience no denomination has ever “gotten it right” and she is so prejudiced against Catholics that she spouts all kinds of things like “They worship the Pope and Mary and it was all an invented religion of men.” No matter how many times I have explained, she will not hear. She often explains “you can’t see the church, it is in our hearts.” The prejudice factor is a big stumbling block for our family.
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Katholikos
Guest
Protestantism is a belief system that holds that
“The whole counsel of God concerning all things necessary for his own glory, man’s salvation, faith, and life, is either expressly set down in Scripture, or by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from Scripture; unto which nothing at any time is to be added . . .” (Westminister Confession)
Strange it is that when asked for the Scripture(s) they rely upon to support the “invisible church” doctrine, Protestants quote Augustine, a Catholic saint and doctor of the Church, and not Scripture. This is a game of dodge ball.
Augustine was writing about the invisible dimension of the ***One ***Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church founded by Jesus Christ. Many belong to the soul of the Church whose identity is known only to God, but Christ founded a visible entity. Protestant denominations were not on Augustine’s mind, but they were on Luther’s when this doctrine was invented. The ‘invisible church of all true believers’ of Protestantism consists of adherents of every conceivable denomination believing whatever conflicting doctrine – yet they are all “true believers.” This is the invisible church that did not appear until the 16th century. It was invented to accommodate the plethora of denominations that sprang from the Deformation (editorial comment). Protestant Christians were assured that no matter which denomination they belonged to, “true believers” (whatever that means) could know that they belonged to this invisible church, which in reality, proponents claimed, was the only Church founded by Christ. It was catholic (little c). They denied that Christ established a visible church – the Catholic (capital C) Church.
Thank you, Calvin, for your post giving us the precise definition of “invisible church.” That makes the issue clear. It’s also clear that Protestantism is a “best guess” belief system – there is no capital T Truth in it, as the Westminster definition says.
Salvation is too important for guessing games – eeny meeny miney mo, which denomination teaches the truth? I guess this it’s this one. No, it’s that one.
That’s why I jumped off the good ship Protestantism and became an agnostic*.* “The purest Churches under heaven are subject to both mixture and error” (Westminster). If there is no TRUTH, why bother?
But two of the world’s religions were God-made (and are therefore true) and not man-made (and are therefore false): Judaism and Catholicism.
JMJ Jay
“The whole counsel of God concerning all things necessary for his own glory, man’s salvation, faith, and life, is either expressly set down in Scripture, or by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from Scripture; unto which nothing at any time is to be added . . .” (Westminister Confession)
Strange it is that when asked for the Scripture(s) they rely upon to support the “invisible church” doctrine, Protestants quote Augustine, a Catholic saint and doctor of the Church, and not Scripture. This is a game of dodge ball.
Augustine was writing about the invisible dimension of the ***One ***Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church founded by Jesus Christ. Many belong to the soul of the Church whose identity is known only to God, but Christ founded a visible entity. Protestant denominations were not on Augustine’s mind, but they were on Luther’s when this doctrine was invented. The ‘invisible church of all true believers’ of Protestantism consists of adherents of every conceivable denomination believing whatever conflicting doctrine – yet they are all “true believers.” This is the invisible church that did not appear until the 16th century. It was invented to accommodate the plethora of denominations that sprang from the Deformation (editorial comment). Protestant Christians were assured that no matter which denomination they belonged to, “true believers” (whatever that means) could know that they belonged to this invisible church, which in reality, proponents claimed, was the only Church founded by Christ. It was catholic (little c). They denied that Christ established a visible church – the Catholic (capital C) Church.
Thank you, Calvin, for your post giving us the precise definition of “invisible church.” That makes the issue clear. It’s also clear that Protestantism is a “best guess” belief system – there is no capital T Truth in it, as the Westminster definition says.
Salvation is too important for guessing games – eeny meeny miney mo, which denomination teaches the truth? I guess this it’s this one. No, it’s that one.
That’s why I jumped off the good ship Protestantism and became an agnostic*.* “The purest Churches under heaven are subject to both mixture and error” (Westminster). If there is no TRUTH, why bother?But two of the world’s religions were God-made (and are therefore true) and not man-made (and are therefore false): Judaism and Catholicism.
JMJ Jay
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DianJo
Guest
This post is a joke, right??? Really, worshiping Mary and cannibalism?? Please - what planet did you just jump off of??
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soldonsacramnts
Guest
Katholikos-
AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!!!
truth is salvific. God grant us the grace to bring the visible to those stuck in the invisible.
AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!!!
truth is salvific. God grant us the grace to bring the visible to those stuck in the invisible.
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