The Irish bishops tell of the enormous difference between the collective grief for those dying from the pandemic to the bland response to those who di

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A pro-life spokeswoman said the numbers of abortions in Ireland show the “terrifying results” of what advocates for changing the Irish constitution were pushing to legalize abortion. The Irish constitution was changed in 2018 to allow abortion in the Irish Republic.

“Those adopting an attitude to the latest figures of ‘nothing to see here, everything is fine and going to plan’ are downplaying the loss of life caused by the recent introduction of abortion here."
 
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It doesn’t help any if people hear the Vatican issue statements to the effect that the (few) prolifers need to be concerned about other things (racism, or something else) but we never hear the Vatican tell the (many) concerned about Other Things that they also need to take action on abortion.
 
Grief, sorrow, are not finite nor bianary. We are capable of grieving for those women and children who have abortions while at the same time grieving for virus deaths.

When my husband died last year, no priest told me “remember, you cannot grieve for your husband because you must grieve for abortion”.
 
Rationally the bishops should have always been more upset about the one-third of conceptions which naturally result in abortion if they are to make a comparison with a naturally occurring virus.

But for some reason the Church is far more concerned with the far smaller number of induced abortions. This is reflected, again, int he bishop’s statement.
 
Yes, the Pope could have changed the vote if he had spoken up before the referendum
 
Naturally occurring abortions cannot be avoided by better behaviour. Both induced abortions and the spread of Coronavirus can
 
Im sorry for your loss too.

Im sure neither you nor your husband would want the abortion evil to be ignored by bishops.
 
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FiveLinden said:
But for some reason the Church is far more concerned with the far smaller number of induced abortions. This is reflected, again, int he bishop’s statement.
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This is no mystery. No person is culpable for natural deaths, be it of the very old or the unborn. Our natural death is a given - it’s our natural end. A deliberate act to take the life of another is a different class of event. Someone is culpable of a moral evil, and the extent to which it’s accepted as fine and dandy has wide implications for others.
 
Rau said:
This is no mystery. No person is culpable for natural deaths, be it of the very old or the unborn. Our natural death is a given - it’s our natural end. A deliberate act to take the life of another is a different class of event. Someone is culpable of a moral evil, and the extent to which it’s accepted as fine and dandy has wide implications for others
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I know that is the Catholic position. But the bishops have chosen to contrast concern about a virus that kills with concern about abortion. Since the first is a natural event they should surely, to be consistent, be concerned also, and to a greater extent, about the deaths of ‘children’ from natural abortion. It is the bishops making an equation about deaths from a natural source and deaths resulting from human intervention. I am just pointing out the logical inconsistency. They would be rational if they were contrasting concern over abortion with concern over euthanasia or concern over murder or even suicide.

As a non-believer I am always interested to see concern about abortion couched in terms of the impact on the ‘child’ when the real concern is the motive and action of those carrying out the abortion. The absence of a level of similar concern over natural abortion illustrates this.
 
FiveLinden said:
I know that is the Catholic position.
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Isn’t what I wrote pretty much the position of all civilized people? The debate tends to only emerge when the life is an unborn.
FiveLinden said:
But the bishops have chosen to contrast concern about a virus that kills with concern about abortion.
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What these things have in common I guess is our ability to do something about them both in the here and now. Spontaneous abortions…not so much.
 
Rau said:
Isn’t what I wrote pretty much the position of all civilized people?
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Not at all. The Catholic position on ‘direct’ abortion based on ‘natural law’ and an absolute principle that one cannot do ‘evil’ so that ‘good’ results is as far as I am aware not shared by other large Christian denominations, or by other religions, notably Judaism.
 
I’ve never encountered a Bishop who ignores sin, who ignores evil. As I’ve said, the Irish Bishops can grieve for the suffering of Covid while grieving for many many more things, including abortion.
 
FiveLinden said:
The Catholic position…
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That’s not what I wrote in the relevant post… I wrote:

“No person is culpable for natural deaths, be it of the very old or the unborn. Our natural death is a given - it’s our natural end. A deliberate act to take the life of another is a different class of event. Someone is culpable of a moral evil, and the extent to which it’s accepted as fine and dandy has wide implications for others”.

You labeled that a Catholic position. But I think that is what civilized people hold - except when the life in question is not yet born. Then the debate starts…
 
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FiveLinden said:
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Rau:
Isn’t what I wrote pretty much the position of all civilized people?
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Not at all. The Catholic position on ‘direct’ abortion based on ‘natural law’ and an absolute principle that one cannot do ‘evil’ so that ‘good’ results is as far as I am aware not shared by other large Christian denominations, or by other religions, notably Judaism.
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The Natural Law itself, and the specific application to abortion is certainly part of the Faith Tradition of most if not all communions that arose from the Reformation. In the US, laws against abortion were enacted by Protestant dominated legislatures, as well as in Protestant dominated countries. As to the part I did not bold, I would welcome (name removed by moderator)ut by others.
@JonNC
@Itwin
@GKMotley
@PickyPicky
 
commenter said:
In the US, laws against abortion were enacted by Protestant dominated legislatures, as well as in Protestant dominated countries.
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Yes and I think without exception allowed for abortion to dave the life of the mother, unlike laws in Catholic-dominated countries such as Ireland.
 
FiveLinden said:
Yes and I think without exception allowed for abortion to dave the life of the mother, unlike laws in Catholic-dominated countries such as Ireland.
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I think you are saying this, but want to reiterate. Abortion was always legal in Ireland to save the life of the mother, even before the idiots voted for it in 2018.
 
etcustodiatte said:
I would encourage you to look into the details of Savita’s case. Two independent medical inquiries ruled that an abortion would not have saved her life.
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Nothing to do with it. The clinicians thought it could have done so. The law stopped them trying.
 
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