The Irish bishops tell of the enormous difference between the collective grief for those dying from the pandemic to the bland response to those who di

[Elf01]

Nothing to do with it. The clinicians thought it could have done so. The law stopped them trying.

Them not realizing how serious her condition was was the reason they didn’t try.

 

[FiveLinden]

to do so was already legal in Ireland.

That poor woman’s name has already been excessively used to attempt to justify the unjustifiable. Let’s stop making a mockery of her memory.

Author of Savita Halappanavar report says 8th Amendment contributed to her death

 

[AlbMagno]

This reminds me of my President’s catchphrase for quarantine:

“Life is more important than the economy”

And now everyone agrees with it. But not everyone nor him agreed with it when the first thing that he did as President is to push for an abortion law…

 

[PickyPicky]

The Catholic position on ‘direct’ abortion based on ‘natural law’ and an absolute principle that one cannot do ‘evil’ so that ‘good’ results is as far as I am aware not shared by other large Christian denominations, or by other religions, notably Judaism

I’m not qualified to say how far this absolute principle is held among various religious traditions, but I do believe that few of us hold that principle absolutely. Most of us, in my opinion, have a bit of consequentialism in our outlooks. The ethical questions are complicated — too complicated, in my view, for this principle to be held absolutely.

Difficult ethical issues surround acts of violence committed to achieve “good ends” — for example: just war theory, the right to self defence, the right to protect ones wife and children, collateral damage in warfare, decisions to directly take civilian life in warfare in order to save lives (Hiroshima etc), the distinction made between intended and foreseen consequences, the extent to which life should be prolonged in patients in painful or hopeless conditions, etc etc.

Other, non-violent, examples include theft to feed a starving child, a lie told to avoid causing pain or to protect a potential victim. There seem to me to be plenty of grey areas.

 

[FiveLinden]

"Referring to the option of terminating the pregnancy, the review team said: “The option of expediting delivery was requested by the patient and her husband and should have been considered whether or not requested by the patient.”

 

[Elf01]

"Referring to the option of terminating the pregnancy, the review team said: “The option of expediting delivery was requested by the patient and her husband and should have been considered whether or not requested by the patient.”

Implying that expiditing delivery was a legal option.

 

[FiveLinden]

Implying that expiditing delivery was a legal option

If it was (i.e. a direct abortion to save the life of the mother) do you support such a law? Or would you prefer it to be in line with Catholic teaching?

 

[Elf01]

If it was (i.e. a direct abortion to save the life of the mother) do you support such a law? Or would you prefer it to be in line with Catholic teaching?

I wouldn’t consider expiditing delivery a direcf abortion.

Why does my opinion matter?

 

[FiveLinden]

I wouldn’t consider expiditing delivery a direcf abortion.

I am 100% sure the Catholic Church would, pre-viability. Your opinion matters because you are a human being and willing to share it.

 

[Elf01]

I am 100% sure the Catholic Church would, pre-viability

It doesn’t consider removing a fallopean tube with an embryo in it a direct abortion, so I wouldn’t be so sure.

Your opinion matters because you are a human being and willing to share it.

I’d prefer the law to be in line with Catholic teaching, but Would consider a direct abortion to save the mothers life reasonable from a secular point of view,

 

[FiveLinden]

I’d prefer the law to be in line with Catholic teaching, but Would consider a direct abortion to save the mothers life reasonable from a secular point of view,

So you are happy with a law that does not implement the Catholic view?

 

[Elf01]

So you are happy with a law that does not implement the Catholic view?

Not quite. I think even getting to the point where a direct aborttion was only legal to save the life of the mother would be an amazing achievement for the pro life movement, and given that we live in a secular society understand that it’s probably the best we will get.

 

[tomarin]

An abortion is when someone intentionally kills the fetus, so I don’t think the concept of a ‘natural’ abortion makes sense.

 

[FiveLinden]

An abortion is when someone intentionally kills the fetus, so I don’t think the concept of a ‘natural’ abortion makes sense.

Well, it’s the term used to describe the death or explosion from the womb of a foetus or earlier form without intervention to cause it. One third of all human fertilisations end up this way.