and with all that’s currently wrong with human civilization today, do you seriously think that things have changed much since then?
in short, if i worked for the government courts as someone who was to be the one to carry out the punishments, yes.
How would you know if it’s an emotionally based question? I doubt most people have the stomach for this sort of thing. If all of that high pitched screaming and blood happened at your hands you might not feel so good in your tummy. Have you ever been wittness to such a thing? This would not make any normal human being fee anything but sick. Yet it’s commanded from God according to you. I find this rediculous and barbaric. Mercy is what God commands. Fear is of the enemy.
all of what you mention here are points that elicit an emotional response - hence, my saying that it’s an emotionally based question.
not live, but yes, i have seen certain islamic punishments being applied on guilty individuals.
that’s the purpose of punishments for serious crimes that infringe on society’s safety and security. they’re supposed to deter people from committing crimes. if you know that such-and-such punishment is legislated for such-and-such crime then you won’t think of committing it, now would you?
that’s your opinion. and i would argue that based on the bible, Allah would say differently. regardless of the fact that the OT laws are abrogated according to your beliefs, Allah did legislate them – again, according to your beliefs – and even if they were for a specific time and era, the very fact that they were legislated and ordained by Allah negates any “ridiculousness” or “barbaric” nature that you claim is in these types of laws, for Allah is neither ridiculous, nor barbaric, nor inhumane.
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I see,all of what you mention here are points that elicit an emotional response - hence, my saying that it’s an emotionally based question.
the laws and legislationed punishments ordained by Allah are for the safety and security of the society and its denizens. the very wisdom behind legislating punishments is to deter and dessuade people from committing the crimes the punishments are legislated for.
not live, but yes, i have seen certain islamic punishments being applied on guilty individuals.
that’s the purpose of punishments for serious crimes that infringe on society’s safety and security. they’re supposed to deter people from committing crimes. if you know that such-and-such punishment is legislated for such-and-such crime then you won’t think of committing it, now would you?
that’s your opinion. and i would argue that based on the bible, Allah would say differently. regardless of the fact that the OT laws are abrogated according to your beliefs, Allah did legislate them – again, according to your beliefs – and even if they were for a specific time and era, the very fact that they were legislated and ordained by Allah negates any “ridiculousness” or “barbaric” nature that you claim is in these types of laws, for Allah is neither ridiculous, nor barbaric, nor inhumane.
here’s an article that you may want to consider reading… although the site isn’t exactly the best, the information contained in this particular article is pretty much on point in terms of islamic beliefs. crime and punishment in islam. enjoy…
more emotionally based comments.
children do see this type of thing all the time in muslim countries where the legislated punishments are carried out. and it does its job showing them the evils of those crimes and the consequences faced by those who commit them. and if my daughter ever witnesses this act or sees a person who’s had this punishment applied to them, then she’ll know just how serious a crime stealing from another person is.
so, is this what you’re accusing moses and the other OT prophets of doing? after all, Allah ordained the anihilation of entire towns and villages. or are you suggesting that these punishments were never meant to be carried out and were merely empty threats?
why would you have to make them up when all you have to do is turn to first half of your scriptures, which you claim to have been abrogated.
nothing but more emotionally based arguments.
apparently you don’t know the contributions to advancements in mathematics, medicine, science, astrology and other branches of knowledge made by muslims throughout history. perhaps you should read this, this and this.
that’s something that’s obviously a matter of perspective and open to great debate. in fact, i think it can be very easily argued that people nowadays are no better off than the pagan arabs before the advent of islam. i’d even go so far as to say that humanity is worse today than it was back then.
Yep… all much better before Islam.
Apples and oranges. Your speaking of war not some sick dismemberment lesson. Stay on topic please or site an example.
Yes and I suppose they will grow up to be detached monsters with a slaughterhouse mentality. Generational ignorance does not justify what most would consider psychotic behavior. God is not the auther of Texas Chainsaw massacre, man is.
More emotional apples and oranges. You seem to not have a decent answer so you are changing the subject here? Is it Moses and war or Mohammed and thieves we are discussing?
How about something of substance in the last 50-75 years? All I see is extremist with no real leader splintering off into chaos.
no i’m not. i’m speaking of punishments legislated in the OT for certain crimes. and i’ve given examples of such punishments elsewhere, such as the “9:29” thread which was closed earlier. very few of the crimes listed [ulr=“[URL]http://web.telia.com/~u15509119/ny_sida_6.htm[/URL]”]this article, for which the death penalty is legislated are linked to war. they’re all linked to societal behaviors and the breaking of laws ordained by Allah, which He has deemed to be harmful to society. and btw, in deut. 13:12-15 which is one of the passages i was alluding to above, the cause for killing and destruction is the breaking of one of Allah’s commandments pertaining to the worship or the calling to worship of other gods.
perhaps if they lived in a society of immorality and debauchery where denizens care little for laws, legislations, common respect or the sanctity of other people’s rights.
not quite. read the article i’ve given the link to above and you’ll see that not all of the orders given to moses and other OT prophets to kill and “maim” were linked to situations of war.
your attempt here to restrict your originally general question is laughable. your challenge here is irrelevant with respect to your original question, “Yet with all of your lower crime levels in these fear based societies do they produce a single advancement that benefits humanity like a car or a computer or a cure for any disease?” and the insinuations that it contained. many of todays advancements and contributions are built upon the contributions and advancements that were made in the past - especially those made by muslims throughout history. your original question implied a lack of such contributions or advancements due to the fact that islamic societies are “fear based” and thus cannot produce such things, which is a false and ridiculous notion based on ignorance regarding the islamic way of life and mindset. if your assertions were in fact true, that islamic societies are based on fear and cannot produced advancements and contributions to the betterment of human life, then how do you explain the numerous advancements and contributions made by muslims in the past, advancements and contributions that are still being benefitted from until today?
wrong. working and toiling with one’s hands in order to earn and provide for himself and his family is not an alternative. it’s an obligation and requirement and forms the basis of how society should work and function. stealing is a crime and violation of the sanctity of other people’s rights and property. there are many people who work and toil, yet still steal from others. and your so-called “alternative to stealing” still does not address a funadmental part of the solution to the disease that is theft. and that is the deterent to dessuade people from committing such an evil and harmful act. this is the purpose for punishments, to deter. and this is a fact that is affirmed and attested to in your very own scriptures. in deut. 13:11, with regard to the punishment He legislated for the crime of calling others to the worship of gods, Allah is said to have said, “then all israel will hear and be afraid, and will never again do such a wicked thing among you.” if you think that without deterents, mankind will abide by your “simple” alternative without violating each other’s rights and honours, i’d have to say that you don’t know much about human behaviour and tendancies.
your analogy here is false and inapplicable. riding a bike too fast is not a crime. nor does it, in and of itself, infringe on the sanctity and security of others, whereas the crime of stealing and theft does. also, the punishment is to cut off the thief’s right hand, how does missing one hand render a person completely incapable of working and earning his keep? ignorance lies in such false notions, not in the laws and legislations Allah has set in place to keep us from violating each other’s rights.
and yet you believe that God did and commanded the things mentioned in the OT, some of which are “harsher” and “more heartless” than anything found within islam’s teachings? your assertions here are clearly not in line with what you’re required to believe as a christian and a believer in the bible.
Salaam Brother Melbourne_guy;
in another thread you tried to use this difference in names as a proof that muslims and christians don’t worship the same God. i told you in that thread to ask any arab christian what he calls God and you’d find that he calls him “Allah”.
