I
inJESUS
Guest
Salaam,
nop its the hadiths opinion. the question is easy : are you sure that you be in heaven?
- Status
nop its the hadiths opinion. the question is easy : are you sure that you be in heaven?
J
Joseph_Alison
Guest
Salaam Brother inJesus;
inJESUS:
If someone is sure he is going to heaven I don’t see what is he waiting for to ask God to immediately take his soul and go meet Him.
A prayer Muslims make very often: “ O! Allah make our best works those at the end of our life (near our death) and our best day the day we meet you”
Salaam.
Joseph.
No, because I am not sure how will my life end. In another hand I am sure Allah (SWT) keeps his promises and if you read the Qur’an you will find many promises Allah (SWT) made to those who do good and walk in righteousness.
If someone is sure he is going to heaven I don’t see what is he waiting for to ask God to immediately take his soul and go meet Him.
A prayer Muslims make very often: “ O! Allah make our best works those at the end of our life (near our death) and our best day the day we meet you”
Salaam.
Joseph.
I
inJESUS
Guest
Wa aalaykumissalam
no body knows…my intention was this : being a muslim all your life, are you aure?
of course, i know this. this is not my point. My point is : you are not sure that YOU will meet God’s standard. It is this fear am talking about. You are NOT sure how much good deeds you must do…its all about this. How much good deeds should you do in order for God to accept you? you don’t know. So you will always have this fear, even if you are sure that God by definition is merciful. The angels are recording…but you dont know what the result is and how much God wants.
because there is a difference between christian and muslim conception of God. To muslims, this life is a test. As i already said , why does Allah need to put a test if he already know the result? To christians, this life is NOT a test. It is where we start building our kingdom of heaven, that is, thru our relationship with him, until we reach him again. But of course there is free-will here : either you accept God’s love and salvation ,or you refuse it. If you accept, you become God’s child…you continue building and strenghthening your relation with him until you see him again. If you refuse, then its up to you. Where is free-will in islam if God put a test knowing what the result is?
I
inJESUS
Guest
btw, why do you put “swt”
after allah’s name?
after allah’s name?
I
inJESUS
Guest
"Subhanahu wa ta’ala (swt)
sorry i confused it with another one.
sorry i confused it with another one.
J
Joseph_Alison
Guest
Salaam Brother inJESUS;
The answer is yes.
“(Namely) those whose lives the angels take in a state of purity, saying (to them), “Peace be on you; enter ye the Garden, because of (the good) which ye did (in the world).” (Qur’an 16.032)
I am,InCha’Allah, preparing an answer to the remaining of your post.
Salaam.
Joseph.
I
inJESUS
Guest
in fact, the translation goes as this : whom the **angels ** cause to die in purity, saying: Peace be to you! Enter the garden for what you did.
1-why it is angels who cause them to die?
2- this verse doesnt answer my question. It only shows that your good deeds are very important, but it does NOT say how much good deeds. So you cant be sure how much is enough.
D
discipleofJesus
Guest
Salaam Joseph,
Here is my attempt to help you understand the meaning of Matthew 5:17-19
It seems that the main meaning of the Lord Jesus Christ’s words in Matthew 5:17 is that He came to bring out the true meaning and intent of the Law and Prophets. For example,
'“Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.’ 34 But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35 nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. 36 Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black. 37 But let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.
Go the Second Mile
38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40 If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also. 41 And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. 42 Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away.
Love Your Enemies
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect."
(Matthew 5:33-48)
Messianic Jewish Scholar, David H. Stern wrote
(Stern, Jewish New Testament Commentary [Clarksville, Maryland; Jewish New Testament Publications, 1996], pp. 25-26; underlined emphasis mine)
Love is the fulfilment of the law
‘“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” 37Jesus replied: " ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."’
(Matthew 22:36-40)
“Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. 9The commandments, “Do not commit adultery,” “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” “Do not covet,” and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 10Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.”
(Romans 13:8-10)
Does this help? If you need more help understanding Matthew 5:17-19 please let me know. If I have written anything wrong and if other Christians know I have written something wrong, please correct me.
The Lord Jesus Christ also said
“The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it. 17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail.”
(Luke 16:16-17)
i.e. John the Baptist
cont…
D
discipleofJesus
Guest
…
I think that, in Matthew 5:17, the Lord Jesus Christ also meant that He came to fulfill the prophecies of the Law and the Prophets such as
“1 Nevertheless the gloom will not be upon her who is distressed,
As when at first He lightly esteemed
The land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali,
And afterward more heavily oppressed her,
By the way of the sea, beyond the Jordan,
** In Galilee of the Gentiles.
2 The people who walked in darkness
Have seen a great light; ** Those who dwelt in the land of the shadow of death,
Upon them a light has shined…
6 **For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given; **
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
**And His name will be called **
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”
(Isaiah 9:1-6)
“Behold, the days are coming,” says the LORD,
(Jeremiah 23:5-6)
“ 1 Who has believed our report?
And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?
2 For He shall grow up before Him as a tender plant,
And as a root out of dry ground.
He has no form or comeliness;
And when we see Him,
There is no beauty that we should desire Him.
3 He is despised and rejected by men,
A Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief.
And we hid, as it were, our faces from Him;
He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.
4 Surely He has borne our griefs
And carried our sorrows;
Yet we esteemed Him stricken,
Smitten by God, and afflicted.
** 5 But He was wounded for our transgressions,
He was bruised for our iniquities;
The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,
And by His stripes we are healed. **
** 6 All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned, every one, to his own way;
And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.**
7 He was oppressed and He was afflicted,
Yet He opened not His mouth;
He was led as a lamb to the slaughter,
And as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
So He opened not His mouth.
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment,
And who will declare His generation?
For He was cut off from the land of the living;
** For the transgressions of My people He was stricken. ** 9 And they made His grave with the wicked—
But with the rich at His death,
Because He had done no violence,
Nor was any deceit in His mouth.
10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise Him;
He has put Him to grief.
When You make His soul an offering for sin,
He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days,
And the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in His hand.
11 He shall see the labor of His soul, and be satisfied.
By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many,
For He shall bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great,
And He shall divide the spoil with the strong,
Because He poured out His soul unto death,
And He was numbered with the transgressors,
And He bore the sin of many,
And made intercession for the transgressors.”
(Isaiah 53:1-12)
Psalm 22 and many more.
I think that, in Matthew 5:17, the Lord Jesus Christ also meant that He came to fulfill the prophecies of the Law and the Prophets such as
“1 Nevertheless the gloom will not be upon her who is distressed,
As when at first He lightly esteemed
The land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali,
And afterward more heavily oppressed her,
By the way of the sea, beyond the Jordan,
** In Galilee of the Gentiles.
2 The people who walked in darkness
Have seen a great light; ** Those who dwelt in the land of the shadow of death,
Upon them a light has shined…
6 **For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given; **
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
**And His name will be called **
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”
(Isaiah 9:1-6)
“Behold, the days are coming,” says the LORD,
Code:
“ **That I will raise to David a Branch of righteousness**;
A King shall reign and prosper,
**And execute judgment and righteousness in the earth**.
6 In His days Judah will be saved,
And Israel will dwell safely;
Now this is His name by which He will be called:
**THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS**.”“ 1 Who has believed our report?
And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?
2 For He shall grow up before Him as a tender plant,
And as a root out of dry ground.
He has no form or comeliness;
And when we see Him,
There is no beauty that we should desire Him.
3 He is despised and rejected by men,
A Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief.
And we hid, as it were, our faces from Him;
He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.
4 Surely He has borne our griefs
And carried our sorrows;
Yet we esteemed Him stricken,
Smitten by God, and afflicted.
** 5 But He was wounded for our transgressions,
He was bruised for our iniquities;
The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,
And by His stripes we are healed. **
** 6 All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned, every one, to his own way;
And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.**
7 He was oppressed and He was afflicted,
Yet He opened not His mouth;
He was led as a lamb to the slaughter,
And as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
So He opened not His mouth.
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment,
And who will declare His generation?
For He was cut off from the land of the living;
** For the transgressions of My people He was stricken. ** 9 And they made His grave with the wicked—
But with the rich at His death,
Because He had done no violence,
Nor was any deceit in His mouth.
10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise Him;
He has put Him to grief.
When You make His soul an offering for sin,
He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days,
And the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in His hand.
11 He shall see the labor of His soul, and be satisfied.
By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many,
For He shall bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great,
And He shall divide the spoil with the strong,
Because He poured out His soul unto death,
And He was numbered with the transgressors,
And He bore the sin of many,
And made intercession for the transgressors.”
(Isaiah 53:1-12)
Psalm 22 and many more.
I
inJESUS
Guest
the link you gave explained it all. In fact, on the cross, Jesus said : it is fulfilled. We are no longer under the law ( coz our own deeds cant save us ), but we are under God’s grace ( coz only God’s grace can save us). All the prophets believed in the coming Messiah’s eternal law.
I
inJESUS
Guest
hehe i wrote that all the prophets believed in the messiah’s eternal law and you just gave the evidence .
I
inJESUS
Guest
Here is Moses on the coming Messiah :
Deuteronomy 18
15
The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own brothers. You must listen to him.
so Moses knew very well that it is not his law the eternal one but the Messiah’s.
Deuteronomy 18
15
The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own brothers. You must listen to him.
so Moses knew very well that it is not his law the eternal one but the Messiah’s.
I
inJESUS
Guest
Salaam Joseph :
how is it really God’s grace if it is by also by works? Isn’t grace the unmerited favor from God? It would seem the Islamic system of salvation is more a reward than grace.The problem with being saved by God’s grace and human works is that human works are never sufficient to please God. God is infinite and holy. How can we finite sinners ever hope to please God by our deeds?
Teachings of Muhammad on the Afterlife and Salvation
(these are from the Hadith).
No assurance of Salvation.
"By Allah, though I am the apostle of Allah, yet I do not know what Allah will do to me." Vol. 5:266
Speaking badly about the deceased sends them to hell?
Mohammed said, “You praised this, so Paradise has been affirmed to him, and you spoke badly of this, so hell has been affirmed to him. You people are Allah’s witnesses on earth.” Vol. 2:448
“The deceased is punished because of the weeping of his relatives.” Vol. 2:375
Hell for bed-wetting?
"The deceased person is being tortured in the grave not for a great thing to avoid, it is for being soiled with his urine. " Vol. 2:460
how is it really God’s grace if it is by also by works? Isn’t grace the unmerited favor from God? It would seem the Islamic system of salvation is more a reward than grace.The problem with being saved by God’s grace and human works is that human works are never sufficient to please God. God is infinite and holy. How can we finite sinners ever hope to please God by our deeds?
Teachings of Muhammad on the Afterlife and Salvation
(these are from the Hadith).
No assurance of Salvation.
"By Allah, though I am the apostle of Allah, yet I do not know what Allah will do to me." Vol. 5:266
Speaking badly about the deceased sends them to hell?
Mohammed said, “You praised this, so Paradise has been affirmed to him, and you spoke badly of this, so hell has been affirmed to him. You people are Allah’s witnesses on earth.” Vol. 2:448
“The deceased is punished because of the weeping of his relatives.” Vol. 2:375
Hell for bed-wetting?
"The deceased person is being tortured in the grave not for a great thing to avoid, it is for being soiled with his urine. " Vol. 2:460
J
Joseph_Alison
Guest
Salaam Brothers DOJ;
Thank you for your explanation. Now I understand more where our Christian Brethren come from.
Brother InJESUS;
In Islam, we believe that heaven is not the same for everyone. The same apply also for hell.
The good deeds are not only meant to save us from hell, they determine the level in heaven everyone reaches according to his good deeds. The highest level is to dwell in paradise with the prophets, the messengers of Allah (including Jesus (PBUH)), the martyrs and the Sidiqin.
If we struggle to do as many good deeds as we can, it is not because we are afraid we cannot achieve the standard of God, but simply because the type of reward received in heaven depends on our good deeds.
Allah (SWT) promised that if we believe and do good deeds we enter paradise. That’s Allah (SWT) promise and He keeps His promises.
The good deeds have two ends: in this life they allow us to live peacefully with those whe are in contact with, in a community based on mutual aid and respect, and in the hereafter to gain the highest levels of heaven possible. For example, the prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said that in the hereafter the believer will be told to recite the Qur’an and go up in the levels of paradise as he recites, every word of the Qur’an is counted as one step; that is one reason why you see Muslims struggling to learn the Qur’an by heart and one other reason why the Qur’an has been preserved.
Salaam.
Joseph.
Thank you for your explanation. Now I understand more where our Christian Brethren come from.
Brother InJESUS;
In Islam, we believe that heaven is not the same for everyone. The same apply also for hell.
The good deeds are not only meant to save us from hell, they determine the level in heaven everyone reaches according to his good deeds. The highest level is to dwell in paradise with the prophets, the messengers of Allah (including Jesus (PBUH)), the martyrs and the Sidiqin.
If we struggle to do as many good deeds as we can, it is not because we are afraid we cannot achieve the standard of God, but simply because the type of reward received in heaven depends on our good deeds.
Allah (SWT) promised that if we believe and do good deeds we enter paradise. That’s Allah (SWT) promise and He keeps His promises.
The good deeds have two ends: in this life they allow us to live peacefully with those whe are in contact with, in a community based on mutual aid and respect, and in the hereafter to gain the highest levels of heaven possible. For example, the prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said that in the hereafter the believer will be told to recite the Qur’an and go up in the levels of paradise as he recites, every word of the Qur’an is counted as one step; that is one reason why you see Muslims struggling to learn the Qur’an by heart and one other reason why the Qur’an has been preserved.
Salaam.
Joseph.
D
discipleofJesus
Guest
Hi inJESUS,
Jesus said "You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. 40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.
41 “I do not receive honor from men. 42 But I know you, that you do not have the love of God in you. 43 I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive. 44 How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God? 45 Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you—Moses, in whom you trust. 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”
(John 5:39-47)
‘Philip found Nathanael and said to him, “We have found Him of whom** Moses in the law**,** and also the prophets, wrote**—Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.”’
(John 1:45)
D
discipleofJesus
Guest
For more evidence that Jesus fulfilled prophecy, see
jewsforjesus.org/answers/prophecy/evidence
jewsforjesus.org/answers/prophecy/chart
messiahrevealed.org/
jewsforjesus.org/answers/prophecy/evidence
jewsforjesus.org/answers/prophecy/chart
messiahrevealed.org/
D
discipleofJesus
Guest
Prophecy of the New Testament/Covenant
'31 “The time is coming,” declares the LORD,
"when I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their forefathers
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to them, "
declares the LORD.
33 “This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time,” declares the LORD.
"I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
34 No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
or a man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,"
declares the LORD.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”’
(Jeremiah 31:31-34)
'31 “The time is coming,” declares the LORD,
"when I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their forefathers
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to them, "
declares the LORD.
33 “This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time,” declares the LORD.
"I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
34 No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
or a man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,"
declares the LORD.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”’
(Jeremiah 31:31-34)
I
inJESUS
Guest
Brother, am not saying that you are not promised paradise. Am saying that it depends on how much good deeds you do. On judgment day, your deeds will be put in balance. How much good deeds is enough? thats the question. mohammad himself says that he doesnt know what allah will do to him…so it all depends on allah’s mercy that will be shown AFTER you die. Please understand my deep point : of course you have promises, but do you have guaranties, other than depending on allah’s mercy?
and as i asked before, how do you call it mercy, if it depends on something?
perfect. But there is a big IF here. How much good will make you sure you met God’s Holy standards?
Bro, am not inventing things. It is muslims themselves who say they all depend on allah’s mercy to determine whether your good deeds exeed the bad ones. Look at Faith’s answers that YOU CANNOT meet allah’s standards with your good deeds.
but there are too many verses and hadith that are very negative to your non-moslem neighbors.
you really believe this? each word is a step? each word equals a certain level in paradise? so there are thousands paradises? and is it fair? allah cares about how many words you can recite? dont you think you are trivializing God and paradise when you say this? and why will you give importance to “words” in the hereafter, instead of God himself? does Allah equal the quran with himself? what about pakistani who dont understand arabic? the only importance is to “recite” a book even if you dont understand what you are saying? am sorry but this idea seems so trivial and shallow.
I
inJESUS
Guest
About the preservation and complilation of the quran:
First : it was not done at mohammad’s age. Second : the one who compiled it was not among the scribes that mohammad assigned.
According to hadith, when the men who memorized the quran died they took with them portions of the Quran that they alone had memorized:
Zuhri reports, 'We have heard that many Qur’an passages were revealed but that those who had memorised them fell in the Yemama fighting. Those passages had not been written down, and following the deaths of those who knew them, were no longer known; nor had Abu Bakr, nor
It is believed that it was Abu Bakr who first compiled it; however,
it is reported… from Ibn Buraidah who said: "The first of those to collect the Qur’an into a mushaf (codex) was Salim, the freed slave of Abu Hudhaifah". (Ibid., citing as-Suyuti, Al-Itqan fii Ulum al-Qur’an, p. 135)
Interestingly, Salim is one of the four men that Muhammad recommended learning the Qur’an from:
Narrated Masriq:
Abdullah bin ‘Amr mentioned ‘Abdullah bin Masud and said, “I shall ever love that man, for I heard the Prophet saying, ‘Take (learn) the Qur’an from four: 'Abdullah bin Masud, Salim, Mu’adh and Ubai bin Ka’b.’” (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 61, Number 521)
He also happened to be one of the Qurra (reciters) killed at the Battle of Yamama. It is evident that Salim’s compilation **precedes ** that of Abu Bakr’s since the latter only collected the Quran after the death of the Qurra at Yamama.
In fact, Uthman took Zaid’s copy and BURNED all the other compilations. Zaid was not the only person who had compiled the Quran in book form. Others such as Ubayy Bin Kab and Ibn Masud also compiled Qurans of their very own. In fact, both **Ubayy and Masud had been singled out by Muhammad himself ** as two of the top four Quranic reciters:
Masruq reported: We used to go to Abdullah Bin Amr and talk to him. Ibn Numair said: One day we made a mention of Abdullah Bin Masud, whereupon he said: you have made mention of a person whom I love more than anything else. I heard Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Learn Quran from four persons: Ibn Umm Abd (i.e., Abdullah Bin Masud - he started from him - then Muadh bin Jabal and Ubayy bin Kab, then Salim the ally of Ali Hudhaifa. (Sahih Muslim, Number 6024)
The question that begs to be asked is who gave Uthman the right to burn Qurans, standardizing Zaid’s text, when there were others who had more authority for receiving official standardization of their respective texts, such as Masud and Kabb?
First : it was not done at mohammad’s age. Second : the one who compiled it was not among the scribes that mohammad assigned.
According to hadith, when the men who memorized the quran died they took with them portions of the Quran that they alone had memorized:
Zuhri reports, 'We have heard that many Qur’an passages were revealed but that those who had memorised them fell in the Yemama fighting. Those passages had not been written down, and following the deaths of those who knew them, were no longer known; nor had Abu Bakr, nor
Umar nor Uthman as yet collected the texts of the Qur’an. (Burton: The published text ought here to be amended: for “fa lamma jamaa Abu Bakr", I propose to read: "wa lamma yajma Abu Bakr”, to follow: “lam yuktab”.) Those lost passages were not to be found with anyone after the deaths of those who had memorised them. This, I understand, was one of the considerations which impelled them to pursue the Qur’an during the reign of Abu Bakr, committing it to sheets for fear that there should perish in further theatres of war men who bore much of the Qur’an which they would take to the grave with them on their fall, and which, with their passing, would not be found with any other. (John Burton, The Collection of the Quran, pp. 126-127, Abu Bakr `Abdullah b. abi Da’ud, Kitab al-Masahif’, ed. A. Jeffery, Cairo, 1936/1355, p. 23It is believed that it was Abu Bakr who first compiled it; however,
it is reported… from Ibn Buraidah who said: "The first of those to collect the Qur’an into a mushaf (codex) was Salim, the freed slave of Abu Hudhaifah". (Ibid., citing as-Suyuti, Al-Itqan fii Ulum al-Qur’an, p. 135)
Interestingly, Salim is one of the four men that Muhammad recommended learning the Qur’an from:
Narrated Masriq:
Abdullah bin ‘Amr mentioned ‘Abdullah bin Masud and said, “I shall ever love that man, for I heard the Prophet saying, ‘Take (learn) the Qur’an from four: 'Abdullah bin Masud, Salim, Mu’adh and Ubai bin Ka’b.’” (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 61, Number 521)
He also happened to be one of the Qurra (reciters) killed at the Battle of Yamama. It is evident that Salim’s compilation **precedes ** that of Abu Bakr’s since the latter only collected the Quran after the death of the Qurra at Yamama.
In fact, Uthman took Zaid’s copy and BURNED all the other compilations. Zaid was not the only person who had compiled the Quran in book form. Others such as Ubayy Bin Kab and Ibn Masud also compiled Qurans of their very own. In fact, both **Ubayy and Masud had been singled out by Muhammad himself ** as two of the top four Quranic reciters:
Masruq reported: We used to go to Abdullah Bin Amr and talk to him. Ibn Numair said: One day we made a mention of Abdullah Bin Masud, whereupon he said: you have made mention of a person whom I love more than anything else. I heard Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Learn Quran from four persons: Ibn Umm Abd (i.e., Abdullah Bin Masud - he started from him - then Muadh bin Jabal and Ubayy bin Kab, then Salim the ally of Ali Hudhaifa. (Sahih Muslim, Number 6024)
The question that begs to be asked is who gave Uthman the right to burn Qurans, standardizing Zaid’s text, when there were others who had more authority for receiving official standardization of their respective texts, such as Masud and Kabb?
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Interestingly, the Muslim community at Iraq refused to receive Uthman’s text, preferring Masud’s instead. This led to a confrontation between Hudhaifah and Masud:
The matter becomes worse when we realize that Uthman’s text omitted chapters and verses that the other texts included:
According to Ibn Umar and Aisha, Muhammad’s wife, one chapter, Surah al-Ahzab [33] had 200 verses in Muhammad’s time. Yet, once Uthman was finished only 73 verses remained, eliminating nearly 140 verses. This tradition is also confirmed by Ubay b. Kabb. (True Guidance, p. 61- citing Al-Suyuti’s al-Itqan fii ulum al-Quran on nasikh wa mansukh; Darwaza’s al-Quran Al-Majid)
A verse on the stoning of men and women had been expunged from the Uthmanic text. It reads as follows:
“As for old men and women, stone them for the pleasure they have indulged in.” Umar al-Khattab stated, “But for people who may say that Umar adds to the Book of Allah, I would have written the verse on stoning.” (Ibid., p. 61)
Sahih Muslim’s hadith indicates that there are at least two surahs which are missing:
Abu Harb b. Abu al-Aswad reported on the authority of his father that Abu Musa al-Ashan sent for the reciters of Basra. They came to him and they were three hundred in number. They recited the Quran and he said: You are the best among the inhabitants of Basra, for you are the reciters among them. So continue to recite it. (But bear in mind) that your reciting for a long time may not harden your hearts as were hardened the hearts of those before you. We used to recite a surah, which resembled in length and severity to (surah) Bara`at. I have, however, forgotten it with the exception of this which I remember out of it: ‘If there were two valleys full of riches, for the son of Adam, he would long for a third valley and nothing would fill the stomach of the son of Adam but dust.’ And we used to recite a surah which resembled one of the surahs of Musabbihat, and I have forgotten it, but remember (this much) out of it: ‘O people who believe, why do you say that which you do not practice’ and ‘that is recorded in your necks as a witness (against you) and you would be asked about it on the Day of Resurrection.’ Number 2286
Confirmation of the legitimacy of the verse on the son of Adam comes from Anas b. Malik:
Anas reported Allah’s messenger as saying: If the son of Adam were to possess two valleys of riches, he would long for the third one, and the stomach of the son of Adam is not filled but with dust. And Allah returns to him to repent. (Sahih Muslim Number 2282)
Anas goes on to say, “I heard the messenger of Allah as saying this, but I do not know whether this thing was revealed to him or not, but he said so.” (Sahih Muslim, Number 2283; cf. 2284, 2285)
Yet according to al-Aswad it was revealed as part of a surah which no longer exists.
According to Hamida bint Abi Yunus:
“When my father was eighty years of age, he recited the following verse from the codex of Aisha: ‘Verily, Allah and His angels pray for the Prophet. O ye who believe, pray for him and earnestly desire peace for him and for those who pray in the front rows.’”
She adds:
“This verse had been there before the codices underwent change at the hands of Uthman.” (True Guidance, pp. 61-62- citing al-Suyut’s al-Itqan on nasikh wa mansukh [abrogating and the abrogated])
According to Hudhaifa, Muslims read “only a quarter of Sura al-Tawba (9) i.e., meaning a great number of its verses are missing. (Ibid., p. 64 citing al-Mustadrak)
Ubayy b. Kabb included two extra surahs, al-Hafd (the Haste) and al-Khal (the Separation) that were not included in the Uthmanic text. These surahs were also included in the texts of Ibn Abbas and Abu Musa. (Gilchrist, pp. 74-75- citing al-Suyuti’s al-Itqan, pp. 152-153)
Aisha relates that, “Ten verses were revealed concerning a foster relationship. These were annulled and replaced by another five verses.” Yet both the abrogated and abrogating verses are nowhere to be found. She also stated: “The verses of stoning and fostering were revealed, and the sheet of paper on which they were written was under my pillow. But then the Prophet died. Overwhelmed with grief, **a beast came in and ate the sheet of paper.” ** (Ibid., p. 112- citing Muslim Hudud 15 and also No.3421; Ibn Maja Hudud 9;
Abdullah, Hudaifa and Abu Musa were on the roof of Abu Musa's house. Abdullah said, ‘I hear you say such-and-such.’ Hudaifa said, ‘Yes, I deplore folk talking about this one’s reading and that one’s reading. They are differing like non-Muslims.’ Hudaifa continued, ‘`Abdullah b. Qais, you were sent to the Basrans as governor and teacher. THEY HAVE ADOPTED YOUR ADAB, YOUR DIALECT AND YOUR TEXT.’The matter becomes worse when we realize that Uthman’s text omitted chapters and verses that the other texts included:
According to Ibn Umar and Aisha, Muhammad’s wife, one chapter, Surah al-Ahzab [33] had 200 verses in Muhammad’s time. Yet, once Uthman was finished only 73 verses remained, eliminating nearly 140 verses. This tradition is also confirmed by Ubay b. Kabb. (True Guidance, p. 61- citing Al-Suyuti’s al-Itqan fii ulum al-Quran on nasikh wa mansukh; Darwaza’s al-Quran Al-Majid)
A verse on the stoning of men and women had been expunged from the Uthmanic text. It reads as follows:
“As for old men and women, stone them for the pleasure they have indulged in.” Umar al-Khattab stated, “But for people who may say that Umar adds to the Book of Allah, I would have written the verse on stoning.” (Ibid., p. 61)
Sahih Muslim’s hadith indicates that there are at least two surahs which are missing:
Abu Harb b. Abu al-Aswad reported on the authority of his father that Abu Musa al-Ashan sent for the reciters of Basra. They came to him and they were three hundred in number. They recited the Quran and he said: You are the best among the inhabitants of Basra, for you are the reciters among them. So continue to recite it. (But bear in mind) that your reciting for a long time may not harden your hearts as were hardened the hearts of those before you. We used to recite a surah, which resembled in length and severity to (surah) Bara`at. I have, however, forgotten it with the exception of this which I remember out of it: ‘If there were two valleys full of riches, for the son of Adam, he would long for a third valley and nothing would fill the stomach of the son of Adam but dust.’ And we used to recite a surah which resembled one of the surahs of Musabbihat, and I have forgotten it, but remember (this much) out of it: ‘O people who believe, why do you say that which you do not practice’ and ‘that is recorded in your necks as a witness (against you) and you would be asked about it on the Day of Resurrection.’ Number 2286
Confirmation of the legitimacy of the verse on the son of Adam comes from Anas b. Malik:
Anas reported Allah’s messenger as saying: If the son of Adam were to possess two valleys of riches, he would long for the third one, and the stomach of the son of Adam is not filled but with dust. And Allah returns to him to repent. (Sahih Muslim Number 2282)
Anas goes on to say, “I heard the messenger of Allah as saying this, but I do not know whether this thing was revealed to him or not, but he said so.” (Sahih Muslim, Number 2283; cf. 2284, 2285)
Yet according to al-Aswad it was revealed as part of a surah which no longer exists.
According to Hamida bint Abi Yunus:
“When my father was eighty years of age, he recited the following verse from the codex of Aisha: ‘Verily, Allah and His angels pray for the Prophet. O ye who believe, pray for him and earnestly desire peace for him and for those who pray in the front rows.’”
She adds:
“This verse had been there before the codices underwent change at the hands of Uthman.” (True Guidance, pp. 61-62- citing al-Suyut’s al-Itqan on nasikh wa mansukh [abrogating and the abrogated])
According to Hudhaifa, Muslims read “only a quarter of Sura al-Tawba (9) i.e., meaning a great number of its verses are missing. (Ibid., p. 64 citing al-Mustadrak)
Ubayy b. Kabb included two extra surahs, al-Hafd (the Haste) and al-Khal (the Separation) that were not included in the Uthmanic text. These surahs were also included in the texts of Ibn Abbas and Abu Musa. (Gilchrist, pp. 74-75- citing al-Suyuti’s al-Itqan, pp. 152-153)
Aisha relates that, “Ten verses were revealed concerning a foster relationship. These were annulled and replaced by another five verses.” Yet both the abrogated and abrogating verses are nowhere to be found. She also stated: “The verses of stoning and fostering were revealed, and the sheet of paper on which they were written was under my pillow. But then the Prophet died. Overwhelmed with grief, **a beast came in and ate the sheet of paper.” ** (Ibid., p. 112- citing Muslim Hudud 15 and also No.3421; Ibn Maja Hudud 9;
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