The issue of conversion, Islam and Christianity

[Harmony1988]

Now whatever particular Christian denomination that you belong to. Do you feel that converting people from a religion such as Islam makes more sense than evangelizing a member of another Christian denomination?

Let’s not deny it, many muslims try to convert Christians, (I’m not saying that they are wrong for it), however, the issue of conversion the other way around is a bit touchy. Reactions can range from indifference, to families throwing out their sons and daughters, rape, death, and every other torture method known to man if a muslim converts to Christianity**

Evangelizing in most muslim nations is forbidden, if not all. Possible consequences are deportation (if you are lucky), or if you are not so lucky and live under shari’a law, torture, death, and the whole medieval works.

Now however thanks to the internet, the Christian ministry can advance without fear. There is censoring to an extent, but with torrent networks, anything goes. If you are a minister, apologist with an internet ministry, do you feel you should or can direct an evangelization effort to the muslim community?

 

[cathopologist]

I let the Truth speak for itself. Personally, i do not agree with Christian-Christian proselytism. Stealing the flock is not what Christians should do. But to educate fellow Christians is a different matter.

As for reaching out to Muslims; well, if the Muslim is happy where he/she is, i’d say leave them be. Let Our Lord be the judge of them. I’d debate with them, but i would not convince them to become Christians. I’d rather God intervene and enrich their lives than me (a mere pathetic soul) spend countless hours convincing them to become Christian. Christianity is also about example; and more than often, actions speak louder than words.

 

[planten]

I let the Truth speak for itself. Personally, i do not agree with Christian-Christian proselytism. Stealing the flock is not what Christians should do. But to educate fellow Christians is a different matter.

As for reaching out to Muslims; well, if the Muslim is happy where he/she is, i’d say leave them be. Let Our Lord be the judge of them. I’d debate with them, but i would not convince them to become Christians. I’d rather God intervene and enrich their lives than me (a mere pathetic soul) spend countless hours convincing them to become Christian. Christianity is also about example; and more than often, actions speak louder than words.

It is necessary that every faith preach the faith peacefully nd honestly from their accepted religious book, not from their mind. Also it is necessary that every one respect the others faith and holy personage. It is no use that one goes abusing Muhammad. The Muslims do not abuse Jesus or his mother or his apostles.

But the christians sometimes go around preaching abuse.That is the reason why they are not allowed any preaching in Muslim countries. But there are muslim Mullas who oppose any type of church preachings in muslim countries. They do not allow. They are wrong.

The peaceful preaching of every faith should be allowed every where. There should be no punishment and no killing of any convert / revert. That is real Islam. Believe it R_Not…

 

[Angelos]

It is necessary that every faith preach the faith peacefully nd honestly from their accepted religious book, not from their mind. Also it is necessary that every one respect the others faith and holy personage. It is no use that one goes abusing Muhammad. The Muslims do not abuse Jesus or his mother or his apostles.

But the christians sometimes go around preaching abuse.That is the reason why they are not allowed any preaching in Muslim countries. But there are muslim Mullas who oppose any type of church preachings in muslim countries. They do not allow. They are wrong.

The peaceful preaching of every faith should be allowed every where. There should be no punishment and no killing of any convert / revert. That is real Islam. Believe it R_Not…

Excuse me? You Muslims do not abuse Jesus’ apostles? LOL Why so much hatred towards Paul? Almost every Muslim scholar I know is an expert on the art of abusing apostle Paul.

I wish the things you stated in your post had some connection to reality. Thanks anyway.

 

[cathopologist]

But the christians sometimes go around preaching abuse.That is the reason why they are not allowed any preaching in Muslim countries. But there are muslim Mullas who oppose any type of church preachings in muslim countries. They do not allow. They are wrong.

Christians in my country do not preach abuse against Muslims. However, Muslims have abused not only Christians, but non-monotheist religions as well. So i suppose my awaited response from you is that i am lying.

 

[Sister_Amy]

I’m just curious…

there are 56 Muslim countries. Fifty-six. The original poster said that preaching Christianity was forbidden in most muslim nations.. That would be at least 28 countries. Can you find just half that number, and name for me 14 Muslim countires that forbid proselytizing?

I can’t, but maybe since you’re the one who made that claim, you can back it up. So please…?

 

[planten]

Excuse me? You Muslims do not abuse Jesus’ apostles? LOL Why so much hatred towards Paul? Almost every Muslim scholar I know is an expert on the art of abusing apostle Paul.

I wish the things you stated in your post had some connection to reality. Thanks anyway.

** It has the reality. Paul is not an apostle of Jesus. He was a well known enemy of Jesus. I believe that story of journey to Damascus was an after thought and cooked affair.

Jesus had not predicted about the conversion of paul. He should have told his friends about that all important matter. But he did not say even a word about it. Moreover, the teachings of paul were well against the original teachings of Jesus. e.g.

1. Doing away with the law and saying that law is a curse. Would Jesus have said such a harsh word about the law? Never.
2. Abondon the Sabath, circumcision, etc.
3. Starting the theory of the original sin.
4. Teaching about the Trinity.
5. Allow eating of pork to please the Greeks.

There is a long list of his deviated teachings. Then he took over (highjacked) christianity. His pesonal philosophy forms more part of the bible NT than the actual words of Jesus in the gospel. Specially,if we count the four gospels as one book. Because the material is nearly the same in Mathew, Mark, Luke and John. So it could be one book about Jesus.

There is more from paul than from Jesus in the bible NT. Also Jesus had warned against the false persons who would come in his name. Paul was the first one who came in the name of Jesus.

We Muslims do have serious reservations about paul. But still we do not abuse him. Similarly, we do not believe that Jesus was a god. That he was son of God. But we do not abuse Jesus that he was a liar. WE do not say that he was a false prophet.**

 

[planten]

Christians in my country do not preach abuse against Muslims. However, Muslims have abused not only Christians, but non-monotheist religions as well. So i suppose my awaited response from you is that i am lying.

No. You are not lying. I know there are Muslims similar to the christians and the Jews in these days. The Muslims have forgotten the real teachings of Islam and they are doing different bad things.

I believe you.

 

[dzheremi]

I’m just curious…

there are 56 Muslim countries. Fifty-six. The original poster said that preaching Christianity was forbidden in most muslim nations.. That would be at least 28 countries. Can you find just half that number, and name for me 14 Muslim countires that forbid proselytizing?

I can’t, but maybe since you’re the one who made that claim, you can back it up. So please…?

It may be officially so in only a few countries, but it is de-facto outlawed in many more, hence cases in places like Malaysia where converts to Christianity are denied the right to change their religious affiliation on their identity cards, or in Egypt where the Baha’i minority are not allowed to have their religion listed at all. What use is freedom of religion guaranteed in many Muslim nations’ constitutions if in practice it is not honored?

 

[ralphinal]

We should teach everyone. Other Christians are easier to talk to as we already use the same terms. Muslims are more difficult, as they see God in a different way.

AS to some of the other points raised on this thread.

Paul did not teach that we can eat pork. That was Peter. He was told it was acceptable by God in a vision.

Paul was not the first to teach the Trinity. That was Jesus.

Paul did not start teaching about original sin. That was Jesus, and possibly even before that.

Paul did not abandon get rid of the Sabboth, it was the other Apostles who moved worship from Saturday to Sunday. He also did not abandon circumcision. It was ruled by the other Apostles at the council of Jerusalem that Gentiles did not have to follow the Law of Moses to become Christian.

As far as what nations “officially forbid” Christian missionaries, the number is small. However, how many turn a blind eye when they are attacked? How many allow for honor killings? How many allow for a mob mentallity to attack those who are not Muslim?

 

[morning_star777]

Paul is not an apostle of Jesus. He was a well known enemy of Jesus.

planten ur comment is not very good about saint paul.he wasn’t the enemy of Lord Christ.so please mind ur language.Just remember,ur muhammed denied jesus as God.so who is the enemy of jesus?Jesus is our lord&paul is 1 of the greatest servant of Lord Christ.Btw,except the references from koran pls prove that jesus isn’t God&paul is jesus’ enemy.

 

[Sister_Amy]

It may be officially so in only a few countries, but it is de-facto outlawed in many more, hence cases in places like Malaysia where converts to Christianity are denied the right to change their religious affiliation on their identity cards, or in Egypt where the Baha’i minority are not allowed to have their religion listed at all. What use is freedom of religion guaranteed in many Muslim nations’ constitutions if in practice it is not honored?

Please refer to the original post:

Evangelizing in most muslim nations is forbidden, if not all. Possible consequences are deportation (if you are lucky), or if you are not so lucky and live under shari’a law, torture, death, and the whole medieval works.

I’m waiting for some kind of proof for this statement. Red tape in two countries hardly qualifies.

 

[dzheremi]

Well, okay. For the purposes of our discussion, I should say that I am not in agreement with that post to begin with. My point is more that it matters little whether or not religious freedom is technically granted in the Muslim countries or not, since the situation on the ground is such that religious freedom is not respected.

From the Indonesia Consortium on Religious Studies (Muslim-majority countries bolded by me):

1. States Recognizing Multiple Relgions but with Major Restrictions of Religious Groups and Practices Considered to be Socially Disruptive.

"A large number of countries place serious restrictions on certain religious organizations and behaviors (…)

The religious activities most often singled out for restriction are prostelytization and conversion. These activities are outlawed in at least twenty eight countries and limited in others. These are: Algeria, Armenia, Azerbaijain, Bhutan, Brunei, Cambodia, China, Comoros, Greece, Indonesia, Iran, Jordan, Kuwait, Laos, Libya, Malaysia, Maldives, Nepal, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Tunisia, Turkmenistan, United Arab Emirates, Uzbekistan, Vietnam and Yemen."

How many Muslim nations do you count above? I count 20. That’s a lot, considering the overall length of the list.

From the same article:

“Penalties for violating these laws and regulation vary greatly. In most of these countries foreign violators are most often fined and/or deported. Citizens are generally subject to beatings, fines and imprisonment. In Malaysia Muslim converts to Christianity have been detained in mental institutions and drug rehabilitation facilities.”

Still want to say it’s just a simple, unimportant matter of some red tape, Sister Amy? Sounds pretty serious to me.

 

[Angelos]

It has the reality. Paul is not an apostle of Jesus. He was a well known enemy of Jesus. I believe that story of journey to Damascus was an after thought and cooked affair.

Jesus had not predicted about the conversion of paul. He should have told his friends about that all important matter. But he did not say even a word about it. Moreover, the teachings of paul were well against the original teachings of Jesus. e.g.

1. Doing away with the law and saying that law is a curse. Would Jesus have said such a harsh word about the law? Never.
2. Abondon the Sabath, circumcision, etc.
3. Starting the theory of the original sin.
4. Teaching about the Trinity.
5. Allow eating of pork to please the Greeks.

Somebody must have deceived you about Paul and Jesus’ original teachings.

I wonder who taught you this illogical theory about Paul. Nonetheless, your Koran is free of guilt since it knows and says nothing about Paul. The only thing I can do at the moment is conclude that whatever you say about apostle Paul is born of your wishful thinking.

There is a long list of his deviated teachings. Then he took over (highjacked) christianity. His pesonal philosophy forms more part of the bible NT than the actual words of Jesus in the gospel. Specially,if we count the four gospels as one book. Because the material is nearly the same in Mathew, Mark, Luke and John. So it could be one book about Jesus.

There is more from paul than from Jesus in the bible NT. Also Jesus had warned against the false persons who would come in his name. Paul was the first one who came in the name of Jesus.

Dear planten, stop worrying yourself about us and our tenets. Lord Jesus promised to be with us till the end of ages and that His Church would always prevail. We are also happy to see that Jesus’ warnings and predictions about false prophets came true with Mohammad’s birth.

We Muslims do have serious reservations about paul. But still we do not abuse him. Similarly, we do not believe that Jesus was a god. That he was son of God. But we do not abuse Jesus that he was a liar. WE do not say that he was a false prophet.

Yet you DO say that Jesus is a false god. You DO teach that Jesus was an incompetent and pathetic messenger whose message was distorted and whose prophetic mission resulted in failure. Your Koran implies that Jesus will be burnt in Hell because of being a false god worshipped by Christians.

Are you still sure you Muslims do NOT abuse and insult Jesus? LOL You must think once more before giving the correct answer.

 

[MugenOne]

dawn.com/2008/08/19/welcome.htm

SAN’A, Aug 19 (AP): A Yemeni security official said police are cracking down on Muslims who have converted to Christianity. The official says at least nine people were detained in recent months. Separately, the official said police also arrested six Iranians in Yemen who are followers of the Baha’i faith for allegedly belonging to a rebel group

 

[Sister_Amy]

States Recognizing Multiple Relgions but with Major Restrictions of Religious Groups and Practices Considered to be Socially Disruptive.

Wow.

Does the United States of America appear on that list?

 

[dzheremi]

Wow.

Does the United States of America appear on that list?

You are an American convert to Islam and you make a comment like this! Wow indeed. That really says something about your mindset.

No actual comment on the list itself? Of the 28 countries enumerated there, 20 of them are Muslim, 2 are Orthodox, and the rest are Buddhist or Hindu (Nepal).

 

[bob0331]

Matthew 28:16-20
Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. Then Jesus came to them and said, “all the authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

So I guess this kinds of puts to rest whether or not we should tell people about Christ and convert them. How you do that needs to be done with love and patience. Remember it is not just with our words we can convince people of Gods love but it is also through our actions.
God Bless

 

[cathopologist]

But the christians sometimes go around preaching abuse.That is the reason why they are not allowed any preaching in Muslim countries. But there are muslim Mullas who oppose any type of church preachings in muslim countries. They do not allow. They are wrong.

The peaceful preaching of every faith should be allowed every where. There should be no punishment and no killing of any convert / revert. That is real Islam.

Honestly, very often it is Christians that abuse other Christians. I doubt any Christian would have the time to abuse Muslims. Other than the fact they’d like to keep their heads on their shoulders, or the fact that Muslims themselves have problems with other Islamic sects and can hardly keep it together.

Believe it R_Not…

Are you insinuating something here?