The Italian Mass My Take On It

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Whats the idea of an Italian mass most of the younger generation in North America doesnt speak enough Italian to understand it.Besides for all the older ones your in North America its time to learn the language. This could be why some older italians can hardly speak a lick of english and they have been here for 40-50 years. If their mass was in english they would have a drive to learn to speak english.

I mean no disrespect this is just my take on it.Whats everyone else think?
 
Whats the idea of an Italian mass most of the younger generation in North America doesnt speak enough Italian to understand it.Besides for all the older ones your in North America its time to learn the language. This could be why some older italians can hardly speak a lick of english and they have been here for 40-50 years. If their mass was in english they would have a drive to learn to speak english.

I mean no disrespect this is just my take on it.Whats everyone else think?
I don’t know. We still have a good number of ethnic parishes in my diocese which will offer at least one mass mostly either in Italian, Polish or German. Some of the parishes still have a strong community and they teach their younger generation enough of the language to understand it. Other parishes are just “ethnic” in name only. (In my city, you could find 2 or three parishes on one block which originally catered to the different ethnicities.) So perhaps it really isn’t as needed, but if people still attend, why not?

I honestly doubt, though, that the reason some of the older folks don’t speak English well is because their masses are in Italian or Polish or German. I think it has more to do with the community they are living in. If they only speak their old country language at home and in the community - which I have seen - then that may be more of a reason why their English speaking skills isn’t so great. If the only time they are hearing and speaking the language is at mass (which I doubt) then I still can’t see how attending an Italian mass once a week can make them not learn their adopted language.

Here’s an example. My mother is Filipina. She fluently speaks three languages - her dialect, the national dialect in the Philippines and English. She does have an accent, but her English is very good. That said, she doesn’t live in a strong Filipino community. My father is Caucasion, so although she has kept and remembered her roots and has encouraged us to be proud of our mixed heritage (we were raised during a time when it was looked down upon to marry outside of your race), she has also adopted much of the traditions and practices of my father’s family. Plus, she doesn’t speak it often due to the fact that my father doesn’t understand it and our teachers told my mother when we were younger that she shouldn’t teach her children how to speak another language - which we all kind of regret and something I found to be a little ignorant and narrow-minded. My Filipino relatives and family friends, on the other hand, have much stronger ties with their roots and community. They speak it all the time, are married to other Filipinos, their accents are much stronger, etc. The older Filipinos do have a more difficult time, but that would be the case for many older persons learning something new. My grandmother had ok English, but since she is starting to get a little demented (she’s past the age of 90 so I think she did really well), she now only speaks her mother dialect and can’t remember English or the national dialect at all.
 
Why would it bother you at all? 🤷 I’m sure you can go to an English mass at the same parish.

Many priests speak fluent Italian because they often study in Rome.
 
Some churches in ethnic communities have been offering mass in the community’s native tongue for a hundred or more years (yes, even during times when Latin was still commonly in use). Its a just a tradition, and it won’t go away.
 
Did you mean Italian or did you mean Latin? They are very similar but they are NOT the same.

I believe there are a lot more, um, Spanish Masses said in the U.S. as opposed to Italian, French, even Polish, Vietnamese, German, etc. That’s why I think you’re a little confused about Italian and Latin.

Also your ethnic stereotyping is a bit blatant!
 
**Sheesh, aren’t you being a little harsh there? I know you can tell by my avatar and my name which side of this issue I’m going to be on, but why all the bashing?
Almost every church that I know of has at least one Mass in something different than English, it’s no big deal.
If I don’t want to hear the Mass in Spanish, Korean, Italian etc., then I go to the English ones. I don’t sit there and bash the older people who may speak a different language, I am there to celebrate the Lord’s Last Supper along with my FELLOW Catholics. Who really cares what language it’s in, it’s so beautiful in all languages.

I grew up with the Mass being said in Latin, so to me, THAT would be my native tongue as far as Mass is concerned. I feel very “back to my childhood” whenever I hear the Mass said in Latin, maybe that’s what the non English speakers feel when they hear it said in their native tongues.

So much of life is our attitude towards things. Love, compassion, and a little understanding don’t hurt either…
Pax**
 
I love the ethnic parishes with Masses in the old language. It helps to preserve the culture for future generations. The attitude expressed in the OP is quite shortsighted and not a little rude. A person can learn a lot simply by being open to new experiences.
 
Actually, my father’s side of the family is Italian. My paternal grandfather was an immigrant, my paternal grandmother was born here. Grandpa spoke both Italian and English fluently, and he was fluent in English by the time he was in the US for three years, so I’m told. Grandma spoke very little Italian. None of the kids learned Italian (that would be my dad and my aunts and uncles, all of whom were US born.)

I’m a little sad about that: It would have been nice to have learned some Italian at home!

Most immigrant families in the early part of the twentieth century prided themselves on learning English, becoming citizens, and being assimilated into the “melting pot.” It is only in recent years that immigrants have become more insular and do not participate in the dominant culture. Perhaps they fear the loss of their identity. The more recent dominant culture certainly does not make them feel welcome or valued. I can understand those fears. A balance, in my opinion, of inculturation and diversity would be ideal.

On the other side of the family I am of Iroquois descent. Some of the old people on Mom’s side were fluent speakers of Ongegawe–the language of the Seneca. Only one of my grandmother’s second cousins who was a fluent speaker was still alive by the time I was born. My grandparents and my mother, aunts, uncles, and second cousins spoke a little, and transmitted some of that to me.

As half of my ancestors can tell you, we are largely an immigrant nation. Perhaps the idea of a “melting pot” was the wrong intellectual and cultural model. How much richer and more harmonious this nation would have been if we had become a tapestry, each element with its own contribution to the grand design, is a subject for happy and wistful thought for me.

Local Catholic Churches who have a Mass scheduled in the language of the heritage of its parishioners have my support and admiration for keeping the young people’s roots alive and nourished.

I had considered not adding this remark, but I will: If the preservation of ethnic identity disturbs you so much, I will presume that we will NOT see you at the church-sponsored Italian festival, with ALL that wonderful Italian food! That’s YOUR loss!
 
Local Catholic Churches who have a Mass scheduled in the language of the heritage of its parishioners have my support and admiration for keeping the young people’s roots alive and nourished.

I had considered not adding this remark, but I will: If the preservation of ethnic identity disturbs you so much, I will presume that we will NOT see you at the church-sponsored Italian festival, with ALL that wonderful Italian food! That’s YOUR loss!
Not to mention missing out on those beautiful Italian operas. 🙂

I don’t speak Italian but once where I travelled on a Saturday night that was the only Mass they had. The Mass is the Mass, the mystery is still the mystery, what’s there not to understand? I even recognized a few proper names in the Gospel. 🙂
 
Did you mean Italian or did you mean Latin? They are very similar but they are NOT the same.

I believe there are a lot more, um, Spanish Masses said in the U.S. as opposed to Italian, French, even Polish, Vietnamese, German, etc. That’s why I think you’re a little confused about Italian and Latin.

Also your ethnic stereotyping is a bit blatant!
At first I thought it might be confusion as well, but looking at this [post=561851]post[/post] in another forum here, that seems highly doubtful. And why does the OP single out Italian? Kind of makes me wonder if the implied slur in the OP was meant as bait.
 
Traditionally the Mass is a gathering of a community. Ethnic communities are real, regardless whether they speak their ethnic language or not.

Also there is a difference between speaking a language, and to feel the language of the grandparents with nostalgia.

We are human beings, not only intellect, but also heart and kidneys.
 
Not to mention missing out on those beautiful Italian operas. 🙂
👍 Definitely!!! I’ll be in Italy for a month performing this summer and can’t wait. Funny thing is, we’re having an Italian conductor, Italian orchestra, but a German opera. haha! I’m hoping I can see a couple Italian operas when I’m not rehearsing or performing.

And the food!!! I can’t wait for that food!!! 😛
 
Whats the idea of an Italian mass most of the younger generation in North America doesnt speak enough Italian to understand it.Besides for all the older ones your in North America its time to learn the language. This could be why some older italians can hardly speak a lick of english and they have been here for 40-50 years. If their mass was in english they would have a drive to learn to speak english.

I mean no disrespect this is just my take on it.Whats everyone else think?
Forgive me if I’m being too harsh or critical (especially to a new member!), but what you say reminds me of the English-only movement in the United States. This movement is basically targeted against Spanish translation and bilingual education, but it is also applied to other languages. While learning English is certainly important for people living in the US in terms of employment and daily life, I see nothing wrong with preserving old traditions at the same time, as well as appreciating the benefits of learning other languages besides English in this global economy and society. While I do not go to Mass, there has been a similar break with tradition in my own faith, especially in many Reform synagogues where the Hebrew liturgy has been abandoned. I don’t particularly care for this change. Even if many who attend don’t understand the Hebrew language, there is a certain spiritual feeling which is simply not conveyed in the same way when the service is in English.
 
Whats the idea of an Italian mass most of the younger generation in North America doesnt speak enough Italian to understand it.?
are you talking about Mass in Italian in Italy? In traditionally Italian parishes in America and other countries? Does the parish you are speaking of offer no Mass in languages other than Italian? Is it an ethnic parish, rather than a territorial parish, founded specifically to serve Italian-speaking residents? Are there still enough Italian speakers to support the parish? Do you really suggest removing from them what the Church considers a right, Mass celebrated in their own language? harsh.
 
Whats the idea of an Italian mass most of the younger generation in North America doesnt speak enough Italian to understand it.Besides for all the older ones your in North America its time to learn the language. This could be why some older italians can hardly speak a lick of english and they have been here for 40-50 years. If their mass was in english they would have a drive to learn to speak english.

I mean no disrespect this is just my take on it.Whats everyone else think?
Many people just prefer the Mass in their original language. Its not that they cannot understand English, they just prefer Italian more. I have a friend who’s born and raised here but is Korean. She goes to Korean Mass. Not because she cannot understand English, but because she likes being able to pray in her mother tongue.
 
Forgive me if I’m being too harsh or critical (especially to a new member!), but what you say reminds me of the English-only movement in the United States. This movement is basically targeted against Spanish translation and bilingual education, but it is also applied to other languages. While learning English is certainly important for people living in the US in terms of employment and daily life, I see nothing wrong with preserving old traditions at the same time, as well as appreciating the benefits of learning other languages besides English in this global economy and society. While I do not go to Mass, there has been a similar break with tradition in my own faith, especially in many Reform synagogues where the Hebrew liturgy has been abandoned. I don’t particularly care for this change. Even if many who attend don’t understand the Hebrew language, there is a certain spiritual feeling which is simply not conveyed in the same way when the service is in English.
Excellent post. Language of worship doesn’t have to be one’s own everyday conversational language and non-national traditional languages of worship should be most respected.
 
Many people just prefer the Mass in their original language. Its not that they cannot understand English, they just prefer Italian more. I have a friend who’s born and raised here but is Korean. She goes to Korean Mass. Not because she cannot understand English, but because she likes being able to pray in her mother tongue.
Exactly.

I’m fluent in French and English and have been since I was about 6 years old (so over 50 years). But French is my mother tongue and if I have a choice between attending Mass in English or French I’ll pick French, just because it’s the language in which I first worshipped (even though Mass was in Latin, the other page of my Missal was French) and there is a visceral response to celebrating in French that is not there when I celebrate in English (~99% of the time due to where I live).
 
Well its just that the italian culture seems so strong in North America that I think it dorfs the slovak and Ukranian parishes of my nationality. Let me ask you this why do italians get a mass in their language meanwhile at the local slovak parish we dont have that we only have a few songs in Slovak occationally.Why cant italians do that? Also, at the local eastern rite church where I attend we stay true to our Ukranian roots meanwhile the Italian church does this as well and they have more parishoners.How is that fair?
 
Well its just that the italian culture seems so strong in North America that I think it dorfs the slovak and Ukranian parishes of my nationality. Let me ask you this why do italians get a mass in their language meanwhile at the local slovak parish we dont have that we only have a few songs in Slovak occationally.Why cant italians do that? Also, at the local eastern rite church where I attend we stay true to our Ukranian roots meanwhile the Italian church does this as well and they have more parishoners.How is that fair?
The priest is free to say Mass in any of the vernacular languages if he is able. If your Ukranian parish has a priest that can speak the language of your nationality, ask him if he would say a Mass in that language. Nothing is stopping him. The Bishop has ultimate control but I have never known a Bishop not to be very proud that Mass is said in different languages in his diocese. Our Cardinal often notes that Mass is said here in up to 17 languages every Sunday. 🙂
 
Agreed. Perhaps the better thing to do for YOU is to question the people in your own community as to why they don’t have a mass in their language, rather than criticise the local Italian parish (or any ethnic parish for that matter) for the way they worship.

BTW - My husband has a friend who is Ukranian Catholic and I believe they still celebrate mass in their language at their parish. So, this might be more of something happening in your own particular parish rather than making it into an “ethnic” thing which it appears is something you are trying to do?
 
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