The Jesuit Colleges

[jimcav]

So my youngest daughter is in her senior year of high school and is in the process of college selection.

Well, what an awakening! She is a product of a very fine, small Dominican HS in Manhattan NY. She has worked very hard there and has done very well. So she is now interested in two Jesuit colleges, one being Fordham in The Bronx, the other being Loyola in MD. Both are seriously fine schools, steeped in tradition and seemingly devoted to building-up the whole person. I have fallen head over heels for Fordham, as my daughter has. But here’s the snag - the Jesuit education does not come cheap!

Even though my daughter received about a half scholarship to Fordham. we are still looking at about $32,000 a year, including housing. Ouch! Now I believe I can handle this bill, but I have to ask a couple of questions -

1 - Why are the Jesuit colleges so expensive?
2 - What are your opinions on the Jesuit schools?
3 - The Dominican run HS education my daughter received was exceptional and well worth the money. Will I feel the same about the Jesuits?

Thanks ahead of time!

 

[jeannetherese]

When looking for a Catholic College steeped in Tradition, I would make the oath of mandatum my benchmark. You might consider checking with the two schools to determine if both have agreed to abide by this as your daughter considers her choices.
Below is information from America magazine regarding the mandatum and below that a link to the Vatican Site document Ex Cordae Ecclesiae

americamagazine.org/issue/342/article/academic-mandatum
Here are the guidelines’ highlights:

The title, Guidelines Concerning the Academic Mandatum in Catholic Universities, restricts its application to theology teachers in Catholic institutions of higher learning, without reference to any obligation of counterparts in other institutions.

The guidelines will have the force of law only when they repeat an already existing norm. They will require no Vatican review.

They restate the Application’s understanding of the mandatum: the professor of theological disciplines is acknowledged by church authority as one who teaches within the full communion of the Catholic Church with the commitment and responsibility to teach authentic Catholic doctrine and to refrain from putting forth as Catholic teaching anything contrary to the church’s magisterium.

Since canon law applies only to Catholics, only they are required to have a mandatum.Bolded comments are mine: I find the above note about canon law applying only to Catholics especially interesting as, at the local Jesuit University in my area, one may earn a graduate degree in theology without taking courses from Catholic professors-thus there is no requirement that the instruction be faithful to the Magisterium. I wonder if non-Catholic professors might be willing to take the oath voluntarily?

Occasional lectures, preaching and counseling are not included within the scope of the mandatum.

Theological disciplines include Sacred Scripture; dogmatic, moral and pastoral theology; canon law; liturgy; and church history.

The mandatum is granted by the diocesan bishop of that diocese where the university has its central administrative offices.

A mandatum can be granted in response to a teacher’s request or on the bishop’s initiative. In either case, the theologian must declare a commitment to teach in full communion.

Teachers hired by May 3, 2001, are to have a mandatum by June, 1, 2002. Those hired later are to obtain it within the academic year or within six months after appointment, whichever is longer. If teachers do not obtain it in the allotted time, the bishop should notify the appropriate university authority. (The guidelines do not say how the bishop would know who is actually teaching theological disciplines.)

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_constitutions/documents/hf_jp-ii_apc_15081990_ex-corde-ecclesiae_en.html

 

[jimcav]

Thanks for that jeannetherese.

I will look into this, although I must admit to being slightly nervous about the answer I might receive…

 

[Aggies08]

Friend of mine went to Fordham (that’s where the Jesuits sent him), and he’s one of the most solid, orthodox, priests I know.

that’s about all I can add. Good luck!

 

[jwinch2]

I cannot speak for the situation at either one of the universities you mentioned. What I can say is that unless your child is going to be studying a field that has the potential for earn a high income, you are not going to get your money’s worth at $32,000 per year. If they are quoting you that number, than it likely does not consider room, board, books, etc. So now, you are looking at $50,000 per year. Again, unless their chosen field is very lucrative, you will not be getting that back anytime soon.

I am a professor and have worked at several universities, large and small. If it were my child, I would find a state university with a solid, active, and vibrant Catholic Center for 30% of the cost. Even if you went out of state and had to pay full out of state tuition at a state school, you would still be spending half as much, perhaps less. Not that far away from MD, where Loyola is, you have the University of Virginia, which is an outstanding institution, and has a great Catholic Campus Ministry which is staffed by the Dominican Friars. csmatuva.org/

There are many other such options.

 

[George_Stegmeir]

So my youngest daughter is in her senior year of high school and is in the process of college selection.

Well, what an awakening! She is a product of a very fine, small Dominican HS in Manhattan NY. She has worked very hard there and has done very well. So she is now interested in two Jesuit colleges, one being Fordham in The Bronx, the other being Loyola in MD. Both are seriously fine schools, steeped in tradition and seemingly devoted to building-up the whole person. I have fallen head over heels for Fordham, as my daughter has. But here’s the snag - the Jesuit education does not come cheap!

Even though my daughter received about a half scholarship to Fordham. we are still looking at about $32,000 a year, including housing. Ouch! Now I believe I can handle this bill, but I have to ask a couple of questions -

1 - Why are the Jesuit colleges so expensive?
2 - What are your opinions on the Jesuit schools?
3 - The Dominican run HS education my daughter received was exceptional and well worth the money. Will I feel the same about the Jesuits?

Thanks ahead of time!

You must be very proud of your daughter to have been accepted to Fordham. You really have to be good to have been accepted for admission by them.
I am somewhat non-plussed by your quote of $32K including housing. If your daughter went to HS in Manhattan, it means you either live in NYC or in “the area”. So why can’t your daughter live at home (at least for the first year or so) and commute? Commuting should not be too much of a problem, unless you live in Staten Island, the Far Rockaways, or Coney Island; and, FordHam is an Express stop on a Major subway line.
A monthly subway pass is a lot cheaper than housing at Fordham. I would look into it, even if their catalog says there is a residence requirement. They have a lot of full time undergraduate students that commute.
heck it out with a visit to their admissions office. If necessary, get an exemption for your daughter - it will save you about $10,000 a year.

 

[Anglewannabe]

I cannot speak for the situation at either one of the universities you mentioned. What I can say is that unless your child is going to be studying a field that has the potential for earn a high income, you are not going to get your money’s worth at $32,000 per year. If they are quoting you that number, than it likely does not consider room, board, books, etc. So now, you are looking at $50,000 per year. Again, unless their chosen field is very lucrative, you will not be getting that back anytime soon.

I am a professor and have worked at several universities, large and small. If it were my child, I would find a state university with a solid, active, and vibrant Catholic Center for 30% of the cost. Even if you went out of state and had to pay full out of state tuition at a state school, you would still be spending half as much, perhaps less. Not that far away from MD, where Loyola is, you have the University of Virginia, which is an outstanding institution, and has a great Catholic Campus Ministry which is staffed by the Dominican Friars. csmatuva.org/

There are many other such options.

As much as I 100% agree with you, there is another side to the coin. Perhaps the OP is not concerned about his daughter getting her money’s worth career wise. Maybe the OP wants his daughter to be in a good Catholic environment on which a price can not be put.

 

[jimcav]

You must be very proud of your daughter to have been accepted to Fordham. You really have to be good to have been accepted for admission by them.
I am somewhat non-plussed by your quote of $32K including housing. If your daughter went to HS in Manhattan, it means you either live in NYC or in “the area”. So why can’t your daughter live at home (at least for the first year or so) and commute? Commuting should not be too much of a problem, unless you live in Staten Island, the Far Rockaways, or Coney Island; and, FordHam is an Express stop on a Major subway line.
A monthly subway pass is a lot cheaper than housing at Fordham. I would look into it, even if their catalog says there is a residence requirement. They have a lot of full time undergraduate students that commute.
heck it out with a visit to their admissions office. If necessary, get an exemption for your daughter - it will save you about $10,000 a year.

Thank you! Me and my wife are very proud of her for sure. She worked extremely hard in HS, so I will do what I have to do to make her dream happen.

I know what you are saying about housing. I could save that money and have her commute from Queens, but she wants to have the “away” experience of college. She made the tough commute throughout her HS years into Manhattan, and to be honest, she missed out on a lot of after school activities because of it. She really wants to envelope herself while in college and soak in all of the after school activities she can, to make new friends, and the only way I think she can do that would be to dorm at the school. My wife was a commuter while in college, and she really doesn’t have any fond memories of those important years.

But I will say, I’m a construction worker, and while work has been good and steady, my daughter knows that if things slow down, she will be a commuter…

It might seem like I’m spoiling her, but I believe in her, and I believe she is going to succeed and excel if she is able to dorm at the school…

 

[jimcav]

As much as I 100% agree with you, there is another side to the coin. Perhaps the OP is not concerned about his daughter getting her money’s worth career wise. Maybe the OP wants his daughter to be in a good Catholic environment on which a price can not be put.

That’s exactly right.

She received a solid, Dominican religious education while in HS, and she thrived in that environment. Four years of rigorous, thought-provoking religious instruction and four years of Latin gave her a great foundation in the faith, and I’d really like to see her continue in this direction. I believe that Fordham and the Jesuit’s can do that for her. I was impressed to hear that they greatly stress educating the whole person and that even philosophy majors from the school have gone onto great careers in other fields.

 

[jwinch2]

As much as I 100% agree with you, there is another side to the coin. Perhaps the OP is not concerned about his daughter getting her money’s worth career wise. Maybe the OP wants his daughter to be in a good Catholic environment on which a price can not be put.

True to a point. However, saddling someone with $150,000 of debt for an undergraduate degree is a very bad idea. I don’t claim to know the OP’s financial situation and it is frankly none of my business.

As I noted, some state schools have excellent Catholic Centers which do a great job of creating a Catholic environment. At the university I worked at immediately prior to the one I am at now, there was such a center. The students studied there between classes, hung out every night, and spent virtually all day Sunday there going to Mass, Vespers, eating meals, etc. They had regular catechesis which was well attended, did corporal works of mercy every week followed by prayer, etc. There was a priest in residence so the sacraments were available daily and he could be reached 24-7 if needed. All in all, it was about as good as could be hoped for. Heck, given the state of some Catholic schools, it was probably much better.

At the end of the day it is entirely up to the OP of course. I am merely trying to present options.

 

[jimcav]

True to a point. However, saddling someone with $150,000 of debt for an undergraduate degree is a very bad idea. I don’t claim to know the OP’s financial situation and it is frankly none of my business.

As I noted, some state schools have excellent Catholic Centers which do a great job of creating a Catholic environment. At the university I worked at immediately prior to the one I am at now, there was such a center. The students studied there between classes, hung out every night, and spent virtually all day Sunday there going to Mass, Vespers, eating meals, etc. They had regular catechesis which was well attended, did corporal works of mercy every week followed by prayer, etc. There was a priest in residence so the sacraments were available daily and he could be reached 24-7 if needed. All in all, it was about as good as could be hoped for. Heck, given the state of some Catholic schools, it was probably much better.

At the end of the day it is entirely up to the OP of course. I am merely trying to present options.

I hear you jwinch.

Although my daughter is not considering any State U’s, I know that some can foster a better Catholic atmosphere than even a Catholic University can. Some Catholic schools have fallen way down on their Catholicity. But she wants a smaller school atmosphere and was turned off at the mammoth size of most State schools. So even if it’s not Fordham or Loyola, it will likely be a small private school…

 

[Irishmom2]

Has she checked out Iona college in New Rochelle? Might be a good fit for her…

Smaller Catholic school, Irish Christian Brothers ran it when I was going to College of New Rochelle…back in the day.

 

[signit]

I cannot speak for the situation at either one of the universities you mentioned. What I can say is that unless your child is going to be studying a field that has the potential for earn a high income, you are not going to get your money’s worth at $32,000 per year. If they are quoting you that number, than it likely does not consider room, board, books, etc. So now, you are looking at $50,000 per year. Again, unless their chosen field is very lucrative, you will not be getting that back anytime soon.

I am a professor and have worked at several universities, large and small. If it were my child, I would find a state university with a solid, active, and vibrant Catholic Center for 30% of the cost. Even if you went out of state and had to pay full out of state tuition at a state school, you would still be spending half as much, perhaps less. Not that far away from MD, where Loyola is, you have the University of Virginia, which is an outstanding institution, and has a great Catholic Campus Ministry which is staffed by the Dominican Friars. csmatuva.org/

There are many other such options.

I agree with this poster.

If it were my child as well, I would encourage a state university all the way. You could get the same educational experience, or better, at a fraction of the cost.

I’ve said before, I can’t see somebody attending an institution “just because it’s Catholic” without looking at whether it really meets their needs and whether it’s affordable.

That’s exactly right.

She received a solid, Dominican religious education while in HS, and she thrived in that environment. Four years of rigorous, thought-provoking religious instruction and four years of Latin gave her a great foundation in the faith, and I’d really like to see her continue in this direction. I believe that Fordham and the Jesuit’s can do that for her. I was impressed to hear that they greatly stress educating the whole person and that even philosophy majors from the school have gone onto great careers in other fields.

Please understand, what you and your family choose to do is completely up to you. It’s not my life or my career; I’m not paying for it; so it’s not my decision in any way. All I’m saying is that I would not encourage my daughter to attend a Catholic institution if there were other opportunities that were feasible and much less expensive, and I absolutely would not make financial sacrifices for myself and my family to pay for it.

On your two points about Jesuit colleges:

(1) “they greatly stress educating the whole person” - I never got any sense of that;

(2) “even philosophy majors from the school have gone onto great careers in other fields” - with a liberal arts degree from a Jesuit institution I absolutely never got any sense of that.

Again, just giving an opinion; if it’s that important to you and your daughter that she go to Fordham, by all means go for it.

Edit: Posted before seeing the OP’s post that his daughter would prefer a small institution than a state university. I still think a big university has advantages, however.

 

[jwinch2]

I hear you jwinch.

Although my daughter is not considering any State U’s, I know that some can foster a better Catholic atmosphere than even a Catholic University can. Some Catholic schools have fallen way down on their Catholicity. But she wants a smaller school atmosphere and was turned off at the mammoth size of most State schools. So even if it’s not Fordham or Loyola, it will likely be a small private school…

I understand. I am a product of smaller schools early in my education and I am glad of it. I left the university where I first worked after my doctorate which had 40,000+ students and now work at a much smaller school.

I have just seen too many kids come out of their undergrad with huge debts and job options which don’t come close to justifying it for me not to say anything. The decision is obviously one to be made by your family.

One thing I would mention though is this. Small private schools oftentimes are not giving the quality of education that they put on that they are. Here’s why. At most, not all but most, small private school’s faculty are not expected to publish research. As a result, their teaching load is higher, upwards of 12 credit hours per semester (3-4 classes). Since their student population is small, they often rotate classes every semester, or at least some of them which means that a professor might be teaching 6-8 different classes per year. Now, that might not sound like much, but I promise you that no professor is competent to teach in 6-8 different areas, let alone an expert in them. As such, at many small private schools your kid ends up being taught by someone who has a very basic level of training in a particular area. This is something I have seen happen many many times and it is a distinct disservice to the students.

At larger institutions, either private or public, professors teach far less because the faculty is larger and they have research expectations. This means that they are far more likely to be teaching in an area in which they are an expert and, due to their research involvement, are actually up to date on the body of evidence in their chosen field. Sometimes, this creates problems because faculty can be more interested in their research than teaching, but this is more rare than some would actually put on. In addition, the research activity of professors creates opportunity for experiential learning outside of the classroom that would not take place at a smaller school which did not have the lab space and equipment or research dedicated faculty. At the school where I did my doctorate it was commonplace to have many undergraduate students in the lab helping us or the faculty collect and analyze data for our various research projects, some of them very large NIH funded studies. This is something which does not happen at 95% of smaller schools but which looks great on a resume and prepares the student well for graduate education should their chosen field require it.

These things are not universally true, but more often than not, they are. It is something additional which you may, or may not, wish to consider. Again, its up to you, but since I am involved in this personally, I felt that I might as well share my experience. I have seen this first hand being involved in universities of different sizes (both as a student and as a professor), and I have seen it in the quality of students I get at the graduate level when looking at the undergraduate institutions they came from.

Peace of Christ,

 

[jimcav]

Has she checked out Iona college in New Rochelle? Might be a good fit for her…

Smaller Catholic school, Irish Christian Brothers ran it when I was going to College of New Rochelle…back in the day.

Unfortunately no, and I’m not sure why. I’ll have to ask her, because I have heard good things about this school myself.

My other daughter goes to St. Thomas Aquinas in New Rochelle. It’s also in the running for second daughter. Great little school!

 

[jimcav]

I understand. I am a product of smaller schools early in my education and I am glad of it. I left the university where I first worked after my doctorate which had 40,000+ students and now work at a much smaller school.

I have just seen too many kids come out of their undergrad with huge debts and job options which don’t come close to justifying it for me not to say anything. The decision is obviously one to be made by your family.

One thing I would mention though is this. Small private schools oftentimes are not giving the quality of education that they put on that they are. Here’s why. At most, not all but most, small private school’s faculty are not expected to publish research. As a result, their teaching load is higher, upwards of 12 credit hours per semester (3-4 classes). Since their student population is small, they often rotate classes every semester, or at least some of them which means that a professor might be teaching 6-8 different classes per year. Now, that might not sound like much, but I promise you that no professor is competent to teach in 6-8 different areas, let alone an expert in them. As such, at many small private schools your kid ends up being taught by someone who has a very basic level of training in a particular area. This is something I have seen happen many many times and it is a distinct disservice to the students.

At larger institutions, either private or public, professors teach far less because the faculty is larger and they have research expectations. This means that they are far more likely to be teaching in an area in which they are an expert and, due to their research involvement, are actually up to date on the body of evidence in their chosen field. Sometimes, this creates problems because faculty can be more interested in their research than teaching, but this is more rare than some would actually put on. In addition, the research activity of professors creates opportunity for experiential learning outside of the classroom that would not take place at a smaller school which did not have the lab space and equipment or research dedicated faculty. At the school where I did my doctorate it was commonplace to have many undergraduate students in the lab helping us or the faculty collect and analyze data for our various research projects, some of them very large NIH funded studies. This is something which does not happen at 95% of smaller schools but which looks great on a resume and prepares the student well for graduate education should their chosen field require it.

These things are not universally true, but more often than not, they are. It is something additional which you may, or may not, wish to consider. Again, its up to you, but since I am involved in this personally, I felt that I might as well share my experience. I have seen this first hand being involved in universities of different sizes (both as a student and as a professor), and I have seen it in the quality of students I get at the graduate level when looking at the undergraduate institutions they came from.

Peace of Christ,

Thank you for that post.

It gives me a lot to think about. Having never been to college myself, I have much to learn from folks like you…

 

[jwinch2]

Thank you for that post.

It gives me a lot to think about. Having never been to college myself, I have much to learn from folks like you…

No problem. I hope it is helpful.

If you have any questions about things from the perspective of a professor, feel free to PM me and I will be happy to help however I can.

Peace of Christ,

 

[mafh]

I understand. I am a product of smaller schools early in my education and I am glad of it. I left the university where I first worked after my doctorate which had 40,000+ students and now work at a much smaller school.

I have just seen too many kids come out of their undergrad with huge debts and job options which don’t come close to justifying it for me not to say anything. The decision is obviously one to be made by your family.

One thing I would mention though is this. Small private schools oftentimes are not giving the quality of education that they put on that they are. Here’s why. At most, not all but most, small private school’s faculty are not expected to publish research. As a result, their teaching load is higher, upwards of 12 credit hours per semester (3-4 classes). Since their student population is small, they often rotate classes every semester, or at least some of them which means that a professor might be teaching 6-8 different classes per year. Now, that might not sound like much, but I promise you that no professor is competent to teach in 6-8 different areas, let alone an expert in them. As such, at many small private schools your kid ends up being taught by someone who has a very basic level of training in a particular area. This is something I have seen happen many many times and it is a distinct disservice to the students.

At larger institutions, either private or public, professors teach far less because the faculty is larger and they have research expectations. This means that they are far more likely to be teaching in an area in which they are an expert and, due to their research involvement, are actually up to date on the body of evidence in their chosen field. Sometimes, this creates problems because faculty can be more interested in their research than teaching, but this is more rare than some would actually put on. In addition, the research activity of professors creates opportunity for experiential learning outside of the classroom that would not take place at a smaller school which did not have the lab space and equipment or research dedicated faculty. At the school where I did my doctorate it was commonplace to have many undergraduate students in the lab helping us or the faculty collect and analyze data for our various research projects, some of them very large NIH funded studies. This is something which does not happen at 95% of smaller schools but which looks great on a resume and prepares the student well for graduate education should their chosen field require it.

These things are not universally true, but more often than not, they are. It is something additional which you may, or may not, wish to consider. Again, its up to you, but since I am involved in this personally, I felt that I might as well share my experience. I have seen this first hand being involved in universities of different sizes (both as a student and as a professor), and I have seen it in the quality of students I get at the graduate level when looking at the undergraduate institutions they came from.

Peace of Christ,

I firmly believe in getting a high quality education out of less expensive, public universities (since that’s what I did), but I do disagree with a few things that you have said. I personally don’t think that a large, Research I university is necessarily the best place for undergraduate education. You may have some very large, auditorium-style introductory courses taught by teaching assistants, for instance. And, also, professors at research universities tend to focus on their graduate students and post-docs, not on their undergrads (unless their research focus is in discipline-specific education). New hires at research universities tend to be made primarily on the basis of one’s publication record, and not on the basis of one’s teaching ability. While there are professors who excel in both areas, they are somewhat rare. Usually, a person is much better at one area than the other, and the hiring practices tend to favor people good at research.

I do think that there may be more advantages to a Research-I school for upperclassmen, since that is where you start taking the more specialized classes. The larger schools have more courses available to choose from, and advanced students can benefit from taking graduate courses. Also, you are right in that professors at Research I schools usually have a couple of junior/senior/beginning graduate classes that are their babies, and that they teach every year. It is also the juniors and seniors who are most likely to have opportunities for research. But, I think the underclassmen are short-shifted at Research-I schools. Since a lot of people drop out of college in their first two years, you really need to take a hard look at what the typical experience of the freshmen and sophomores will be.

Anyway, my preference is actually for inexpensive, regional public universities for at least the first two years of undergraduate study. Then, consider transferring to a large research-focused university.

I do very strongly agree about not going into a large amount of debt for an undergrad education. It can wind up being a crushing burden.

 

[jwinch2]

I personally don’t think that a large, Research I university is necessarily the best place for undergraduate education. You may have some very large, auditorium-style introductory courses taught by teaching assistants, for instance. And, also, professors at research universities tend to focus on their graduate students and post-docs, not on their undergrads (unless their research focus is in discipline-specific education).

True to a point, however being taught be a doctoral student is not necessarily a bad thing. Remember that PhD student has a master’s degree in the field of study that they are teaching in. In addition, with the exception of specific cases, the idea that faculty can get away with being a lousy teacher because they publish is a myth. All faculty are evaluated on their teaching and faculty, even tenured ones, who get poor evals are in trouble. Those who are bringing in so much grant money that they prefer to be doing just their research typically buy themselves out of teaching from their grant so that the department can hire an instructor to teach it instead. Even at the very large university I was at (R1 institution) I was evaluated on both teaching and research and would not have been eligable for tenure with poor teaching evaluations.

New hires at research universities tend to be made primarily on the basis of one’s publication record, and not on the basis of one’s teaching ability. While there are professors who excel in both areas, they are somewhat rare. Usually, a person is much better at one area than the other, and the hiring practices tend to favor people good at research.

At every faculty job I have applied for I have given a teaching demo during the interview process, often more than one. When I was a PhD student I served on search committees for new faculty hires and they always did a teaching demo with both undergrad and grad students. This was at a state flagship university and for a position which had major research expectations. If have seen the same thing at every university I worked at since. I have seen many candidates who were not hired despite having a strong publication record and grant potential because they could not teach.

I do think that there may be more advantages to a Research-I school for upperclassmen, since that is where you start taking the more specialized classes. The larger schools have more courses available to choose from, and advanced students can benefit from taking graduate courses. Also, you are right in that professors at Research I schools usually have a couple of junior/senior/beginning graduate classes that are their babies, and that they teach every year. It is also the juniors and seniors who are most likely to have opportunities for research. But, I think the underclassmen are short-shifted at Research-I schools. Since a lot of people drop out of college in their first two years, you really need to take a hard look at what the typical experience of the freshmen and sophomores will be.

This is largely program specific in my experience. Programs which teach courses which serve as general education courses for the university do sometimes fall into this. But other departments do not.

 

[mafh]

True to a point, however being taught be a doctoral student is not necessarily a bad thing. Remember that PhD student has a master’s degree in the field of study that they are teaching in.

This is not true in my discipline, physics. Students are admitted to a PhD program with only a Bachelor’s degree and can be teaching assistants their first year in graduate school. Some PhD students do get a Master’s along the way to a PhD, but in most physics programs, the Master’s is entirely optional. You will find many physics PhDs who never received a Master’s Degree.

You do make good points on the other areas.