The Jesuit Colleges

[HouseArrest]

The Newman Guide (www.thenewmanguide.com) is an excellent resource for identifying faithful Catholic colleges. Fordham is not on the list.

I read the following after searching Fordham on the Newman Guide website. I am curious as to why you favor Fordham University. I have read many articles about Fordham that concern its Catholic identity:

At a dinner tonight, October 29, in New York City, despite the disapproval of New York Archbishop Edward Cardinal Egan and thousands of individuals concerned for its Catholic identity, Fordham University will bestow the Fordham-Stein Ethics Prize on Supreme Court Justice Stephen Breyer, who wrote the widely criticized majority opinion that overturned laws banning partial-birth abortion.
cardinalnewmansociety.org/CatholicEducationDaily/DetailsPage/tabid/102/ArticleID/271/Default.aspx

and

The University will tomorrow host the pro-infanticide ethicist Peter Singer to speak at a conference entitled “Conference with Peter Singer: Christians and Other Animals: Moving the Conversation Forward.”
cardinalnewmansociety.org/CatholicEducationDaily/DetailsPage/tabid/102/ArticleID/1686/Default.aspx

There are more.

 

[jimcav]

One other question I had that wasn’t touched upon if I may -

Does a degree from a school like Fordham hold more weight with future employers than say a state U?

 

[Ridgerunner]

One other question I had that wasn’t touched upon if I may -

Does a degree from a school like Fordham hold more weight with future employers than say a state U?

Depends on where you are.

In my part of the world, Fordham is a “big name” school. There are plenty of employers who would hire the State U grad over the “big name” graduate because they figure the latter probably has unreasonable expectations, too high an opinion of himself, and is using this employment as a “stepping stone” only.

Personally, if I believed my child was going to go to grad school someday (and all of mine have) I would spend the heavy money on the grad school, not on undergrad. Grad schools are even more expensive. But even then, a big name school won’t necessarily do all that much good later on. Again, that depends on where you live. Around here, anyway, an undergraduate degree from Mo State and (say) a law degree from U of Mo is as good or better than an undergraduate degree from Yale and a law degree from Harvard when it comes to getting a job. In New York or Washington DC, I’m sure it’s the other way around.

Part of it has to do with where the employers themselves went to school. If they mostly went to Mizzou or U of Ark, they’re going to think well of graduates from those schools. If they went to Fordham or Princeton, they’ll prefer graduates from those places.

 

[jwinch2]

One other question I had that wasn’t touched upon if I may -

Does a degree from a school like Fordham hold more weight with future employers than say a state U?

It depends on the discipline usually. For example, in the DC metro area you could compare the program in International Affairs at a private school such as George Washington University with the program at a public school such as George Mason University. You are going to pay a whole bunch more money to go to GWU but the program isn’t ranked that much higher than the one at GMU. To anyone who knows the field, they know that both are high quality programs. To someone who doesn’t know that particular field of study, GWU may look better because of the perception of private schools.

This is very much an American phenomenon. In many countries, the public schools are the ones which command the best reputations. Students who score well in high school (or their version of it anyway) and show aptitude for success in college are the ones who get accepted into public schools and thus get financial assistance from the taxpayers. Those who do not, are forced to pay a private school without government assistance.

It also largely depends on the student in question. You can have a student come out of a weaker program who worked hard, volunteered to get extra experience, took electives in their area which rounded out their knowledge, worked to get a great internship, etc. who is a rock star and you can have someone who did the bare minimum in a strong program who won’t amount to much at all.

I hope this helps.

 

[jwinch2]

The Newman Guide (www.thenewmanguide.com) is an excellent resource for identifying faithful Catholic colleges. Fordham is not on the list.

I read the following after searching Fordham on the Newman Guide website. I am curious as to why you favor Fordham University. I have read many articles about Fordham that concern its Catholic identity:

At a dinner tonight, October 29, in New York City, despite the disapproval of New York Archbishop Edward Cardinal Egan and thousands of individuals concerned for its Catholic identity, Fordham University will bestow the Fordham-Stein Ethics Prize on Supreme Court Justice Stephen Breyer, who wrote the widely criticized majority opinion that overturned laws banning partial-birth abortion.
cardinalnewmansociety.org/CatholicEducationDaily/DetailsPage/tabid/102/ArticleID/271/Default.aspx

and

The University will tomorrow host the pro-infanticide ethicist Peter Singer to speak at a conference entitled “Conference with Peter Singer: Christians and Other Animals: Moving the Conversation Forward.”
cardinalnewmansociety.org/CatholicEducationDaily/DetailsPage/tabid/102/ArticleID/1686/Default.aspx

There are more.

These are good points as well. If you are going to shell out that kind of money to send your child to Catholic school, I would want to make sure that the environment is an authentically Catholic one. To paraphrase Archbishop Fulton Sheen, it might be better that they go to a public school where they will learn to fight for their Faith rather than to a Catholic school where it can be stolen right out from under them without them even knowing it.

Thankfully, today there are many great Catholic universities and colleges. However, there are also many with a Catholic “tradition” who have in many tangible ways, left the faith behind.

I would advise doing one’s homework. The Newman Guide is a great place to start with that.

Quite frankly, I would be far more comfortable with a child, providing they are well formed in the Faith to begin with, going to a non-Catholic school with a strong and orthodox Catholic Center such as Texas A&M, where they know going in that their professors are not Catholic and might teach things that are at odds with the Faith. Far better that in my view, then sending them to a school which claims to be Catholic such as Georgetown and have my child let their guard down thinking that they are getting authentically Catholic direction and paying them twice as much for the privilege.

 

[signit]

One other question I had that wasn’t touched upon if I may -

Does a degree from a school like Fordham hold more weight with future employers than say a state U?

This is a big generalization. As the other person said, it depends on the discipline. It also depends on geography and a lot of other things.

And the poster using law school as an example seems pretty accurate. I was told that if you attend Brand X law school employers in its geographical area will have heard of it and will respect it; if, however, you go out to Billings, Montana, you’ll find that no one has heard of it.

It also largely depends on the student in question. You can have a student come out of a weaker program who worked hard, volunteered to get extra experience, took electives in their area which rounded out their knowledge, worked to get a great internship, etc. who is a rock star and you can have someone who did the bare minimum in a strong program who won’t amount to much at all.

Absolutely.

College is what you make of it. A person who goes to a “lower-rated” institution and makes the most of it (top grades, internships, etc.) is likely to be in a better spot than someone who goes somewhere else and gets mediocre grades.

 

[jimcav]

The Newman Guide (www.thenewmanguide.com) is an excellent resource for identifying faithful Catholic colleges. Fordham is not on the list.

I read the following after searching Fordham on the Newman Guide website. I am curious as to why you favor Fordham University. I have read many articles about Fordham that concern its Catholic identity:

At a dinner tonight, October 29, in New York City, despite the disapproval of New York Archbishop Edward Cardinal Egan and thousands of individuals concerned for its Catholic identity, Fordham University will bestow the Fordham-Stein Ethics Prize on Supreme Court Justice Stephen Breyer, who wrote the widely criticized majority opinion that overturned laws banning partial-birth abortion.
cardinalnewmansociety.org/CatholicEducationDaily/DetailsPage/tabid/102/ArticleID/271/Default.aspx

and

The University will tomorrow host the pro-infanticide ethicist Peter Singer to speak at a conference entitled “Conference with Peter Singer: Christians and Other Animals: Moving the Conversation Forward.”
cardinalnewmansociety.org/CatholicEducationDaily/DetailsPage/tabid/102/ArticleID/1686/Default.aspx

There are more.

Thank you for that list, however they only recommend 22 colleges, and none of the many Catholic colleges in the NY Tri-State area made that list.

I do understand that the Jesuits can be quite challenging and pretty liberal at times. That should not however exclude them from the list altogether. From what I understand, they believe in challenging the norms, but they don’t necessarily disagree with the norms, (if that makes sense!) I spoke to a number of Catholic students at Fordham, and they had nothing but good thing to say about the Jesuits on campus, the Catholic clubs and organisations, and Mass is well attended both on weekdays and weekends. Challenge is OK to me, my daughter is well grounded in her faith…

 

[Ridgerunner]

These are good points as well. If you are going to shell out that kind of money to send your child to Catholic school, I would want to make sure that the environment is an authentically Catholic one. To paraphrase Archbishop Fulton Sheen, it might be better that they go to a public school where they will learn to fight for their Faith rather than to a Catholic school where it can be stolen right out from under them without them even knowing it.

Thankfully, today there are many great Catholic universities and colleges. However, there are also many with a Catholic “tradition” who have in many tangible ways, left the faith behind.

I would advise doing one’s homework. The Newman Guide is a great place to start with that.

Quite frankly, I would be far more comfortable with a child, providing they are well formed in the Faith to begin with, going to a non-Catholic school with a strong and orthodox Catholic Center such as Texas A&M, where they know going in that their professors are not Catholic and might teach things that are at odds with the Faith. Far better that in my view, then sending them to a school which claims to be Catholic such as Georgetown and have my child let their guard down thinking that they are getting authentically Catholic direction and paying them twice as much for the privilege.

This reminds (and amuses) me. My son started undergraduate at a big Jesuit university. After a year he transferred to a State U because of all the errant theology at the former. I still have to laugh at his statement that at the state U “…at least I don’t have to listen to anti-Catholicism in class all the time.”

And he didn’t, either. You’ll run into some minor amount of anti-Catholicism and protestant proselytizing in public colleges, but you won’t run into heretical teachings purporting to be Catholic.

Anyway, my son graduated from the state U, went to a (genuinely) Catholic law school, ultimately married a fine Catholic young woman. Both of them are very serious about their faith. My son didn’t escape school debt entirely. It was all at the law school and was about $16,000.00. Not too bad.

I, too, have heard praises of Texas A&M. It’s not a hostile environment for Catholics, is about 1/3 Catholic in student population, and has one of the best Newman centers in existence. It also has a very good academic reputation notwithstanding all the “Aggie” jokes. But if you aren’t a Texas resident, it’s pretty pricey.

One of my daughters entered one of the two foremost Jesuit universities on scholarship, (I won’t say which one) but transferred out to a state school after two years because she couldn’t stand what she felt was a pretty substantial amount of very questionable Catholic teaching and the official acceptance of gross immorality on the part of the student organizations.

On the other hand, two of my daughters went to Rockhurst in KC for undergraduate and didn’t have complaints. It was very different from what my son and other daughter experienced at the larger Jesuit universities. I think even Jesuit schools vary, depending on where they are. I think maybe they adapt to the student body somewhat. Rockhurst students, by and large, were then from places like Mo, Ks, Ne, Co, Ok. Not so where my son went, and certainly not so where my other daughter went.

 

[jwinch2]

I do understand that the Jesuits can be quite challenging and pretty liberal at times. That should not however exclude them from the list altogether.

Many schools which educate in the “Jesuit tradition” are not even actually run by the Society of Jesus anymore. Instead, they are almost entirely run by a board consisting of persons who oftentimes are non-Catholics, with a few Jesuits here and there to make things look good. Many of the Jesuit schools should really be classified as formerly Catholic in their structure as they now openly promote things which are contrary to Church teaching. Unfortunately, this is not germane to Jesuit schools, but reflective of what has happened at many so-called Catholic colleges.

Its one thing to have Jesuits challenging things and teaching students through that method. I take positions sometimes to force students to defend theirs as well, its actually pretty common at college. However, that is entirely different than have an actively anti-Catholic environment at a supposedly Catholic institution.

 

[jwinch2]

This reminds (and amuses) me. My son started undergraduate at a big Jesuit university. After a year he transferred to a State U because of all the errant theology at the former. I still have to laugh at his statement that at the state U “…at least I don’t have to listen to anti-Catholicism in class all the time.”

Brutal.

I, too, have heard praises of Texas A&M. It’s not a hostile environment for Catholics, is about 1/3 Catholic in student population, and has one of the best Newman centers in existence. It also has a very good academic reputation notwithstanding all the “Aggie” jokes.

And being located in the heart of Baptist country, Catholics will learn to defend their Faith, which is a good thing.

 

[AnastasiaRomano]

I, too, have heard praises of Texas A&M. It’s not a hostile environment for Catholics, is about 1/3 Catholic in student population, and has one of the best Newman centers in existence. It also has a very good academic reputation notwithstanding all the “Aggie” jokes. But if you aren’t a Texas resident, it’s pretty pricey.

I too have heard very good things about Texas A&M.

If we’re on the subject of public colleges with good Newman Centers, allow me to also put in a good word for the University of Pittsburgh as well as the University of Illinois - Urbana/Champaign. UIUC even has a Catholic dorm attached to its Newman Center. (Earlier in the thread the OP mentioned philosophy majors. If your daughter is interested in that field, Pitt has a strong program in several areas of philosophy.)

 

[Ridgerunner]

I too have heard very good things about Texas A&M.

If we’re on the subject of public colleges with good Newman Centers, allow me to also put in a good word for the University of Pittsburgh as well as the University of Illinois - Urbana/Champaign. UIUC even has a Catholic dorm attached to its Newman Center. (Earlier in the thread the OP mentioned philosophy majors. If your daughter is interested in that field, Pitt has a strong program in several areas of philosophy.)

Mine are all graduated. (whew!)

Starting over with grandchildren. My oldest granddaughter is considering U. of Dallas, Benedictine, Belmont Abbey, Wyoming Catholic College and a state U. Maybe some others I don’t know about. Going to depend on scholarships. She knows some already, but not yet all.

 

[jwinch2]

Mine are all graduated. (whew!)

Starting over with grandchildren. My oldest granddaughter is considering U. of Dallas, Benedictine, Belmont Abbey, Wyoming Catholic College and a state U. Maybe some others I don’t know about. Going to depend on scholarships. She knows some already, but not yet all.

Does she know what she is looking to pursue degree-wise?

 

[Aggies08]

I too have heard very good things about Texas A&M.

If we’re on the subject of public colleges with good Newman Centers, allow me to also put in a good word for the University of Pittsburgh as well as the University of Illinois - Urbana/Champaign. UIUC even has a Catholic dorm attached to its Newman Center. (Earlier in the thread the OP mentioned philosophy majors. If your daughter is interested in that field, Pitt has a strong program in several areas of philosophy.)

If someone is going to TAMU, we can meet up for lunch, I live there…

 

[Ridgerunner]

Does she know what she is looking to pursue degree-wise?

Not for sure. She’s interested in languages and theatre. Won the state in drama, placed well in nationals and might do both again. Has a pretty decent scholarship in hand from U. of D., but another competetive one is still pending. Had to go there and audition for that. Full ride at the state U in question. Likely a teacher in the future, at some level, possibly with some community theatre involvement as well. Talented musically, too. It’s actually surprising how few really good theatre faculty there are in the world, particularly if they also know their music. Excellent dancer, particularly in jazz dancing, which also helps with stage movement and presence, and wouldn’t hurt with musical productions.

She’ll probably give Wyoming a pass. She’s a good equestrienne and would love to ride the mountains out there, as they do, but there’s no theatre or drama major there.

Did a summer “Latin immersion” course at Ave Maria University in Fla, but her real language interest is linguistics, not so much Latin or a particular modern language.

 

[severus68]

Thank you! Me and my wife are very proud of her for sure. She worked extremely hard in HS, so I will do what I have to do to make her dream happen.

I know what you are saying about housing. I could save that money and have her commute from Queens, but she wants to have the “away” experience of college. She made the tough commute throughout her HS years into Manhattan, and to be honest, she missed out on a lot of after school activities because of it. She really wants to envelope herself while in college and soak in all of the after school activities she can, to make new friends, and the only way I think she can do that would be to dorm at the school. My wife was a commuter while in college, and she really doesn’t have any fond memories of those important years.

But I will say, I’m a construction worker, and while work has been good and steady, my daughter knows that if things slow down, she will be a commuter…

It might seem like I’m spoiling her, but I believe in her, and I believe she is going to succeed and excel if she is able to dorm at the school…

You should be proud of your daughter and you and your wife should be proud of yourselves for wanting the best possible education for her. A great start for hr life.

 

[Gyrfalcon1993]

My two cents as someone who is currently attending a Jesuit university:

The environment is generally positive although it’s important to realize that the education won’t involve the same attention per student from the professor as is possible in a small high school (even if the college is small like Fordham).
As for cost, it sucks and unless one is rich scholarships are needed. I wouldn’t be at my college now without huge financial support.
And the fact that Jesuit schools say they are about building up the whole person simply means that they force students to take “core” classes, i.e. taking courses that have nothing to do with one’s major to create a well-rounded person. As a student, I hate this policy. I feel that instead of taking a philosophy class, I could be doing something else closer to my major. If I’m paying good money for this education, I should be able to have more flexibility as for which classes to take. Of course, I’m typing this annoyed by the fact that I have a history exam tomorrow (another core class)

 

[jeannetherese]

Educating the whole person" is just a marketing buzz-phrase. No institution will brag about educating half a person.
Preschools use this phrase as do universities. It substitutes for yesterday’s “creating well rounded individuals”.

 

[jimcav]

You should be proud of your daughter and you and your wife should be proud of yourselves for wanting the best possible education for her. A great start for hr life.

Thank you very much for that!

 

[jimcav]

My two cents as someone who is currently attending a Jesuit university:

The environment is generally positive although it’s important to realize that the education won’t involve the same attention per student from the professor as is possible in a small high school (even if the college is small like Fordham).
As for cost, it sucks and unless one is rich scholarships are needed. I wouldn’t be at my college now without huge financial support.
And the fact that Jesuit schools say they are about building up the whole person simply means that they force students to take “core” classes, i.e. taking courses that have nothing to do with one’s major to create a well-rounded person. As a student, I hate this policy. I feel that instead of taking a philosophy class, I could be doing something else closer to my major. If I’m paying good money for this education, I should be able to have more flexibility as for which classes to take. Of course, I’m typing this annoyed by the fact that I have a history exam tomorrow (another core class)

There will come a day, when you least expect it, that you will appreciate taking those “core” classes, like when your 40 something and looking for a promotion and your sitting at a table full of executives talking about some abstract subject, and you are not only able to join the conversation, but even impress them!

Oh, and good luck on the history exam!