The Jesuits and the Titanic

[Equites_Christi]

This is ridiculous, infuriating, and-pardon my french- makes me want to punch conspiracy theorist babies. On the subject of the Titanic I am no expert, so maybe those more informed can take a stab at this:

pacinst.com/terrorists/chapter5/titanic.html

I received it from a hardcore protestant/conspiracy theorist who has sent me many attacks on the church before which I have been able to systematically refute. But this…this is a real piece of work.

Good luck.

 

[Drawmack]

This is ridiculous, infuriating, and-pardon my french- makes me want to punch conspiracy theorist babies. On the subject of the Titanic I am no expert, so maybe those more informed can take a stab at this:

pacinst.com/terrorists/chapter5/titanic.html

I received it from a hardcore protestant/conspiracy theorist who has sent me many attacks on the church before which I have been able to systematically refute. But this…this is a real piece of work.

Good luck.

One of the best ways to refute any, ANY, conspiracy theory is to first ask for references. Then attack the reasons they give for those who cover up the conspiracy. Basically, ask them why x would want to help cover up y. It works best if you can find competing conspiracies. Find one what the people working together to cover up one conspiracy are working against one another with other conspiracies. Basically just rip the inconsistencies apart. It’s pretty easy to do. There is a podCast called the conspiracy skeptic where they talk about how to do this all the time.

 

[Drawmack]

Of the many that come to mind the most devastating have been the destruction of the the World Trade Center in New York City and the sinking of the Titanic.

So, the World Trade Center and the Titanic are two of the most devastating events in the last 100 or 200 years. What about the Holocaust? What about the Great Terror? What about the American Civil War? What about WWI? This is clearly an attempt to make these two events appear worse than they were, which (at this point I’m guessing) is done to make a tie between them both being terrorist attacks.

The greatest tragedies in the last two hundred years can be traced to the Jesuits.

Here is the thesis statement, this is what we are going to be attacking for the rest of this post.

Since the early 1830’s, America did not have a central bank. The Jesuits desperately wanted another central bank in America so that they would have a bottomless reservoir from which to draw money for their many wars and other hideous schemes around the world.

A claim that the Jesuits controlled the United States government and therefore would control a centralized banking system in the United States. This is actually a recasting of the Illuminati theory. You should dredge up that as a competing conspiracy – the Illuminati hate the Catholics so it has to be one or the other.

In the next section he begins talking about the Federal Reserve. These claims are easily refutable by a little research into the founding of the Fed. Additionally this section is relying on a source that is another conspiracy work which has been extensively refuted. Simply research some of those refutations and you’re good to go.

They do whatever is necessary to destroy constitutional liberty in America and to bring the pope to world domination.

So, controlling American in the late 1800’s was seen as a means to world domination? The United States wasn’t even a major international power at that time. Additionally, if this is the case why do so many U.S. laws contradict Catholic moral teachings?

Daily, the power of the pope in Vatican City increases. One day they will achieve total power again.

Yeah, the dwindling Catholic congregations support this one right?

J.P. Morgan was ordered by the Jesuits to build the Titanic.

White Star lines was a German company and the Titanic was a German boat (but it was built in Ireland). Why would the Jesuits order an American business magnet to build a German boat in an Irish port? Wouldn’t it have been smarter to order a German business magnet (like maybe the guys at White Star) to build the Titanic?

The Titanic was the vehicle of their destruction. In order to further shield the papacy and the Jesuits from suspicion, many Irish, French, and Italian Roman Catholics immigrating to the New World were aboard.

Let me make sure I understand this. The most educated order, within the most educated church deemed that thousands of its own people were expendable in a power grab attempting to take over the entire world? Wouldn’t it make more sense to get those emigrants to the U.S. so that they could become voters and put Roman Catholic officials into office?

Protestants from Belfast who wanted to immigrate to the United States were also invited on board.

Source?

All the wealthy and powerful men the Jesuits wanted to get rid of were invited to take the cruise. Three of the richest and most important of these were Benjamin Guggenheim, Isador Strauss, the head of Macy’s Department Stores, and John Jacob Astor, probably the wealthiest man in the world.

What about W.T. Stead the famous English journalist who work diligently though his career to further the abilities of the press to talk positively about the Roman Catholic Church in England – he died on the boat to? (I only know this because he was an ancestor of mine – it is difficult to prove he was on the ship because he was a personal guest of the captain and is only on the captain’s log not the standard passenger logs.) I guess that social reformers who worked for the church were expendable too.

The Jesuit General told Francis Browne what was to happen; Browne then tells Smith and the rest is history.

Let’s all state things as fact without any proof. Abraham Lincoln is still alive and actually running the country from the basement of the Whitehouse.

By the command of God, [the Jesuit General] it is lawful to murder the innocent, to rob, to commit all lewdness, because he [the Pope] is Lord of life, and death, and of all things; and thus to fulfill his mandate is our duty.

This guy needs an elementary English lesson. In this sentence the subject is clearly stated as God, when the word he is used later in that same sentence it refers back to the subject, God, and does not introduce a new subjective presence (i.e. the Pope).

There is no record in history of an association whose organization has stood for three hundred years unchanged and unaltered by all the assaults of men and time, and which has exercised such an immense influence over the destinies of mankind…

This is a great place to attack conspiracy theory with conspiracy theory. What about the Illuminati, the free masons, etc.

When a person takes the Jesuit Oath, he is bound to his master until the day that he dies.

That master, as is stated earlier in this work, is God – the Jesuit General.

(to be continued…)

 

[Drawmack]

Edward Smith propelled the Titanic full speed ahead, twenty-two knots, on a moonless dark night through a gigantic ice field nearly eighty square miles in area.

They hit a stray glacier and the ice was much further south than it should have been that time of year. My understand, which could be wrong, is that the only warning of glaciers was from other ships and was not given to the captain.

Edward Smith did this despite at least eight telegrams warning him to be more cautious because he was going too fast.

Source?

The encyclopedias paint a very tragic picture of Smith in his last hours. When it came time to give the order to load and lower the lifeboats, Smith wavered and one of his aids had to approach him for the order to be given. Smith’s legendary skills of leadership seem to have left him; he was curiously indecisive and unusually cautious on that fatal night. Are these words to describe a legendary sea captain with 26 years of experience, or are these words to describe a man who was struggling in his mind whether he should do his duty as a sea captain or obey his master who told him to sink the ship?

Possibly they are the actions of a man who had warned his bosses at White Star that the Titanic only had enough life boats for about 1/10 of the passengers and was told not to worry about it because the Titanic was unsinkable.

I find it interesting that in this entire piece they do not even talk about the real reasons the Titanic sank. Really if you’re going to construct a conspiracy theory about the Titanic it would be easier to do if you based it on the reasons the Titanic sank.

The Titanic did not sink because it hit an ice berg, it sank because the fail safes which prevented a hull breach from sinking the ship did not work. There were automatic metal walls which would drop if a breach was detected by water flooding the hull – it was actually an engineering marvel of the time which used a flotation system to detect water leakage. When the water began to flood the hull the first two doors malfunctioned and did not drop all the way allowing water to flood a large portion of the hull; this is why the Titanic went straight up into the air and broke in two before sinking. All the water was contained in one half of the hull.

The reason for the malfunction was because White Star cut corners to save on construction costs of the ship. They used substandard rivets and not enough of them. Many of the metals in the ship were also substandard and prone to bowing. The first two hull doors bowed and got stuck in their tracks, which is why they didn’t drop all the way.

The problem with refuting conspiracy theories is that they can say ridiculous things much more quickly than one can refute them. Generally you do not have to know a great deal about the topic at hand to rip the theory apart, just attack the internal inconsistencies.

 

[Mark77]

Anyone who is so completely unaware of the facts and is gullible enough to believe this childish drivel is obviously susceptible to believe just about anything.

It is truly sad to see people wasting their time promulgating hate filled lies to the dumbed-down masses who believe most anything the see or hear because they are ignorant (definition of ignorant; “lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned”).

The constant, deafening drumbeat of lies and half-truths that we are overwhelmed with everyday can get discouraging. "The Gospels are forgeries,…the Pope is the anti-Christ,…etc.,etc, ad infinitum.

"And I also say unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it." (Mt 16:18)

The Good News is that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ has already won the battle, we just have to “REPENT AND BELIEVE IN THE GOSPEL!” (Mk 1:15)

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

mark

 

[kristie_m]

The only thing I can say about this particular article is HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH cough cough gasp!

Oh thank you!! That made my day!!!

Seriously…and I suppose the Dominicans are responsible for Hurricane Katrina?

marvels at the lengths people will got to, to cap on the Church

 

[Equites_Christi]

This guy does believe anything. Illuminati stuff on the dollar bill, 9/11 was an inside job, you name it. But he never listens. I debunk the garbage he throws at me, and he just moves on. If I were ever to make a serious violation against charity…it would be over him.
God bless you all for your enormous help, I will bring this under his nose promptly.

 

[Mattapoisett64]

So, the World Trade Center and the Titanic are two of the most devastating events in the last 100 or 200 years. What about the Holocaust? What about the Great Terror? What about the American Civil War? What about WWI? This is clearly an attempt to make these two events appear worse than they were, which (at this point I’m guessing) is done to make a tie between them both being terrorist attacks.

Here is the thesis statement, this is what we are going to be attacking for the rest of this post.

A claim that the Jesuits controlled the United States government and therefore would control a centralized banking system in the United States. This is actually a recasting of the Illuminati theory. You should dredge up that as a competing conspiracy – the Illuminati hate the Catholics so it has to be one or the other.

In the next section he begins talking about the Federal Reserve. These claims are easily refutable by a little research into the founding of the Fed. Additionally this section is relying on a source that is another conspiracy work which has been extensively refuted. Simply research some of those refutations and you’re good to go.

So, controlling American in the late 1800’s was seen as a means to world domination? The United States wasn’t even a major international power at that time. Additionally, if this is the case why do so many U.S. laws contradict Catholic moral teachings?

Yeah, the dwindling Catholic congregations support this one right?

White Star lines was a German company and the Titanic was a German boat (but it was built in Ireland). Why would the Jesuits order an American business magnet to build a German boat in an Irish port? Wouldn’t it have been smarter to order a German business magnet (like maybe the guys at White Star) to build the Titanic?

Let me make sure I understand this. The most educated order, within the most educated church deemed that thousands of its own people were expendable in a power grab attempting to take over the entire world? Wouldn’t it make more sense to get those emigrants to the U.S. so that they could become voters and put Roman Catholic officials into office?

Source?

What about W.T. Stead the famous English journalist who work diligently though his career to further the abilities of the press to talk positively about the Roman Catholic Church in England – he died on the boat to? (I only know this because he was an ancestor of mine – it is difficult to prove he was on the ship because he was a personal guest of the captain and is only on the captain’s log not the standard passenger logs.) I guess that social reformers who worked for the church were expendable too.

Let’s all state things as fact without any proof. Abraham Lincoln is still alive and actually running the country from the basement of the Whitehouse.

This guy needs an elementary English lesson. In this sentence the subject is clearly stated as God, when the word he is used later in that same sentence it refers back to the subject, God, and does not introduce a new subjective presence (i.e. the Pope).

This is a great place to attack conspiracy theory with conspiracy theory. What about the Illuminati, the free masons, etc.

That master, as is stated earlier in this work, is God – the Jesuit General.

(to be continued…)

That White Star was a German company would be news to them. The White Star Line was a British shipping firm with roots in the Australian shipping trade. The original line went bankrupt and rights to the name and trademarks were purchased by the Ismay family, which led to Bruce Ismay being chairman in 1912, a passenger on you-know-what, and allegedly sneaking into a lifeboat despite women and children being left on board. In 1902 White Star was merged into IMM - the International Mercantile Marine Co. - a shipping conglomerate controlled by the American financier J.P. Morgan. IMM may have at the same time held interests in German lines as well. Titanic’s sister ship Britannic was requisitioned by the British government as a troop carrier in WW I and was sunk by a mine off the coast of Greece; a ship owned by a German line would clearly not have been available for this. White Star did have several ships with German-sounding names (*Germanic *and *Teutonic *are examples), because of its tradition to name their ships with names ending in “-ic.” (Other examples being *Titanic *of course, Olympic, Britannic, Homeric…).

You are correct that forensic analysis has documented sub-standard rivets. Having read many books on Titanic, and having met Robert Ballard, discoverer of Titanic, twice, I have never seen the allegation about forward watertight doors having failed and would be interested in your source. It seems widely documented that the entire area of the ship open to the ocean amounted to only 12 square feet, the problem being that the buckled plates and popped rivets compromised more watertight compartments to the ocean that the design parameters anticipated as “worst case,” coupled with the fact that the watertight bulkheads didn’t extend high up enough.

The whole Jesuit conspiracy website material is a real hoot. There’s actually another site I’ve read, whose name I won’t publicize, that blames the sinking on the “fact” that the pope “blessed” the ship. The nice thing about conspiracy theories is that they’re infinitely adaptable.

 

[Drawmack]

That White Star was a German company would be news to them. The White Star Line was a British shipping firm with roots in the Australian shipping trade. The original line went bankrupt and rights to the name and trademarks were purchased by the Ismay family, which led to Bruce Ismay being chairman in 1912, a passenger on you-know-what, and allegedly sneaking into a lifeboat despite women and children being left on board. In 1902 White Star was merged into IMM - the International Mercantile Marine Co. - a shipping conglomerate controlled by the American financier J.P. Morgan. IMM may have at the same time held interests in German lines as well. Titanic’s sister ship Britannic was requisitioned by the British government as a troop carrier in WW I and was sunk by a mine off the coast of Greece; a ship owned by a German line would clearly not have been available for this. White Star did have several ships with German-sounding names (*Germanic *and *Teutonic *are examples), because of its tradition to name their ships with names ending in “-ic.” (Other examples being *Titanic *of course, Olympic, Britannic, Homeric…).

You are correct that forensic analysis has documented sub-standard rivets. Having read many books on Titanic, and having met Robert Ballard, discoverer of Titanic, twice, I have never seen the allegation about forward watertight doors having failed and would be interested in your source. It seems widely documented that the entire area of the ship open to the ocean amounted to only 12 square feet, the problem being that the buckled plates and popped rivets compromised more watertight compartments to the ocean that the design parameters anticipated as “worst case,” coupled with the fact that the watertight bulkheads didn’t extend high up enough.

I divert to your expertise on the matter, I don’t know very much about it. As for my source for the doors not working properly it was either a history or a discovery channel special.

The whole Jesuit conspiracy website material is a real hoot. There’s actually another site I’ve read, whose name I won’t publicize, that blames the sinking on the “fact” that the pope “blessed” the ship. The nice thing about conspiracy theories is that they’re infinitely adaptable.

That is pretty funny.

 

[Dtmccameron]

Since the early 1830’s, America did not have a central bank. The Jesuits desperately wanted another central bank in America…

Please, somebody…My…brain…can’t…take…it…

 

[manualman]

Articles like the linked one are self defeating and not worth refuting. They only discredit themselves when they spread such nuttiness.

So much so that you almost have to wonder if the nefarious Jesuits THEMSELVES are behind these stories! Hmmm…

Actually it’s a marvel how behind the times these consiracists are. I’d be more likely today to believe in a Jesuit plot to assassinate the POPE than somebody outside the church! You’d think they’d update a bit. Give Dan Brown credit for THAT much at least (going after Opus Dei).

 

[vz71]

OK, so we don’t like a few people.

But rather then kill them outright, we are going to build a huge ship, lure them onto it, then sail it into an iceberg.

 

[Drawmack]

OK, so we don’t like a few people.

But rather then kill them outright, we are going to build a huge ship, lure them onto it, then sail it into an iceberg.

Shhhhh, you’re ruining my plot

 

[StrawberryJam]

I think responding to this type of thing only gives the person a feeling that they have something worthy of responding to. It is very off the wall, and not even close to what I would consider an honest concern. I hope it is not anyway. I know a lady who owns a laundrymat and she is like your friend who believes in many conspiracy theories. I have heard many of them, but she tells me she can’t tell me “everything” she knows when I question her. She said that as much as she likes me, she can not trust me because I am not a believer and could be a plant to gather information from her to ruin her. Yes, she actually thinks I could be a plant to destroy her and her “efforts” to fight for truth.
Jesuits have been around for a long time, and any group that is around for a long time somehow face this kind of thing. I’ve seen a lot of conspiracies about the Jesuits, including stuff about the Kennedy family and the Jesuits and it really is bizzare.