The justice of God

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I wanted to address something that I find many atheists (and people who follow other religions as well, but mostly atheists) ask. They often as how a loving God can send someone to hell. This gets me mad for some reason and I understand why. The answer seems so obvious to me!

Ok, a loving God does not mean a God who lets us do ANYTHING we want. I like to use the analogy of a parent and a child b/c even though our realtionship with God is unique, this realtionship is the closest thig we have to compare it. Does a good parent allow their child to do whatever they want? It is b/c a parent loves them that they try to stop them from playing with matches, and taking drugs or whatever. So God, who is much greater than a parent, obviously would not let us do something thta would hurt us…which is sin!

Yes, sin is harmful to us, wether we realize it or not. And like children we don’t understand why things are wrong. A child does feels it is unfair that they can not eat lots of candy and we feel it unfair that we can not lie when it is convenient.

Now, does hell seem like too great a punishment? Well, its OUR choice to go to hell. Being in heaven means being with God. When we sin, we reject God. So why would we want to be in heaven? Heaven is not about the golden streets and relaxing paradise we think it is. The centeral focus is God. Heavan is great because of God!! So if we don’t want to be with God, why would we want to go to heaven when heaven is God? We would want to go to the place where God is abset: hell…

Does anyone have any comments /anyting to add?

God Bless 👋
 
Flame4 said:
I wanted to address something that I find many atheists (and people who follow other religions as well, but mostly atheists) ask. They often as how a loving God can send someone to hell. This gets me mad for some reason and I understand why. The answer seems so obvious to me!

Ok, a loving God does not mean a God who lets us do ANYTHING we want. I like to use the analogy of a parent and a child b/c even though our realtionship with God is unique, this realtionship is the closest thig we have to compare it. Does a good parent allow their child to do whatever they want? It is b/c a parent loves them that they try to stop them from playing with matches, and taking drugs or whatever. So God, who is much greater than a parent, obviously would not let us do something thta would hurt us…which is sin!

Yes, sin is harmful to us, wether we realize it or not. And like children we don’t understand why things are wrong. A child does feels it is unfair that they can not eat lots of candy and we feel it unfair that we can not lie when it is convenient.

Now, does hell seem like too great a punishment? Well, its OUR choice to go to hell. Being in heaven means being with God. When we sin, we reject God. So why would we want to be in heaven? Heaven is not about the golden streets and relaxing paradise we think it is. The centeral focus is God. Heavan is great because of God!! So if we don’t want to be with God, why would we want to go to heaven when heaven is God? We would want to go to the place where God is abset: hell…

Does anyone have any comments /anyting to add?

God Bless 👋
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I’ve mentioned before that on the night my father died, he appeared in my room, started with an apology, then we argued (nothing new in that) and conversed, and then he disappeared with one almighty scream. Personally I believe he’s in hell, and whatever it was that was coming for him at the end was terrifying.

On the other hand I have to balance what he did compared to say Hitler, Stalin or Pol Pot for example. Are they all in the same levels of hell? In my opinion, I don’t think they are. I also suspect the punishment fits the crime.

Now at one stage he commented, he “didn’t really have any choice! I always was doomed!” Yet later he qualified that with he “was WILLING!” So, I think in the end I prefer CS Lewis’ comment that the gates of Hell are locked on the inside. In my father’s case he had very bad temper. In fact by the time he died it would be more accurate to say he was a bad temper.

But suppose he’d made a death bed confession, realised the error of his ways and repented? Yet as a matter of fact, even during that last confrontation he lost his temper at one stage. This is despite the fact he knew he was being judged, and I suspect he could even see God. He literally threw a tantrum in front of the beatific vision. It was such a way of life, he did it even then.

Now unless he was WILLING to give up every last vestige of his bad temper, and never relapse, he would not be allowed to get into heaven. Yet prior to that he’d almost pounced on anything that would allow him to throw a tantrum.

Would he have been WILLING to give it all up?

Personally I don’t think so, and therefore as Lewis intimated “The Gates of Hell are locked on the inside”, as God’s infinitely accurate judgment would conclude they were not prepared to give up their abiding sin or selfishness. Would Hitler have given up his pathological hatred of Jews, or his contempt for others? Would Pol Pot have been truly repentant (the last I heard of him, he claimed he had a clear conscience, ergo, he’d do it all again. The Killing Fields had not wrought one ounce of repentance from his lips.)? Would Stalin have given up his lust for power, and become the servant of all?

I don’t think so. Therefore they prefer to hate in Hell than love in heaven. They may have been predestined in one sense. But they are also very willing.
 
You got it right. God wants everyone one to go to heaven. The only way you can get to heaven is by “loving God with your whole heart, with your whole mind and your whole self and by loving your neighbor as yourself”. He also gave us free will to chose as we please. When we sin, we are telling God that we love ourselves more than him, and thereby we can not get to heaven. Jesus came to save us from our sins by dying on the cross, but we have to admit our sins and ask for forgiveness (Confession) in order for us to show God that we truly do love him.
 
Flame4 said:
Ok, a loving God does not mean a God who lets us do ANYTHING we want. I like to use the analogy of a parent and a child b/c even though our realtionship with God is unique, this realtionship is the closest thig we have to compare it. Does a good parent allow their child to do whatever they want? It is b/c a parent loves them that they try to stop them from playing with matches, and taking drugs or whatever. So God, who is much greater than a parent, obviously would not let us do something thta would hurt us…which is sin!
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I said this before, and I say it again. This is, if not perfect, a very understandable way of looking at things. God doesn’t want us to reject him, but if we do and die, He must reject us for not turning to Him, which is really the one thing most human to us (like a parent who constantly calls after a child; and when the child reaches a certain age and after so much rejection, the parent must let go). It’s only at a person’s acceptance and resignation to God at a certain moment in time that He can save that soul from damnation, when one is close to death.
Yes, sin is harmful to us, wether we realize it or not. And like children we don’t understand why things are wrong. A child does feels it is unfair that they can not eat lots of candy and we feel it unfair that we can not lie when it is convenient.
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So true. Such is why I hate alot of modern philosophy. “We should do what we want, and not worry about outcomes. We should live for ourselves!” If such thought were actually executed (and is and has in the past and present), people would be running around murdering and raping and stealing with no consequences! When nothing is right, nothing is wrong. Such thought would destroy us, and when people live this way, this is why God must reject them in Heaven.
Now, does hell seem like too great a punishment? Well, its OUR choice to go to hell. Being in heaven means being with God. When we sin, we reject God. So why would we want to be in heaven? Heaven is not about the golden streets and relaxing paradise we think it is. The centeral focus is God. Heaven is great because of God!! So if we don’t want to be with God, why would we want to go to heaven when heaven is God? We would want to go to the place where God is abset: hell…
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I don’t think it matters how great a punishment it is. It’s God who created Hell and God who decides eternal destiny. We get what we deserve, that is what degree of punishment God gives to us, only because of what we’ve done to deserve it. I like the old ‘life is a test’ view. If you pass with an A or a B, you’re fit for Heaven. If you don’t get Honor Roll, but get a C or D, according to how bad the grade, you get Purgatory. If you reject knowledge and get a failing grade, you go to Hell, where you’ll have to live with your choices forever.
 
Take God out of it. They always want to blame him.

If you won’t come to God, you will go to hell.
 
rcjones said:
Take God out of it. They always want to blame him.

If you won’t come to God, you will go to hell.
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Exactly! We choose hell really. My teacher always says, he doesn’t fail us, we fail ourselves on a test. He just marks them .Same with God really.
 
Bob_Crowley said:
I’ve mentioned before that on the night my father died, he appeared in my room, started with an apology, then we argued (nothing new in that) and conversed, and then he disappeared with one almighty scream. Personally I believe he’s in hell, and whatever it was that was coming for him at the end was terrifying.

On the other hand I have to balance what he did compared to say Hitler, Stalin or Pol Pot for example. Are they all in the same levels of hell? In my opinion, I don’t think they are. I also suspect the punishment fits the crime.

Now at one stage he commented, he “didn’t really have any choice! I always was doomed!” Yet later he qualified that with he “was WILLING!” So, I think in the end I prefer CS Lewis’ comment that the gates of Hell are locked on the inside. In my father’s case he had very bad temper. In fact by the time he died it would be more accurate to say he was a bad temper.

But suppose he’d made a death bed confession, realised the error of his ways and repented? Yet as a matter of fact, even during that last confrontation he lost his temper at one stage. This is despite the fact he knew he was being judged, and I suspect he could even see God. He literally threw a tantrum in front of the beatific vision. It was such a way of life, he did it even then.

Now unless he was WILLING to give up every last vestige of his bad temper, and never relapse, he would not be allowed to get into heaven. Yet prior to that he’d almost pounced on anything that would allow him to throw a tantrum.

Would he have been WILLING to give it all up?

Personally I don’t think so, and therefore as Lewis intimated “The Gates of Hell are locked on the inside”, as God’s infinitely accurate judgment would conclude they were not prepared to give up their abiding sin or selfishness. Would Hitler have given up his pathological hatred of Jews, or his contempt for others? Would Pol Pot have been truly repentant (the last I heard of him, he claimed he had a clear conscience, ergo, he’d do it all again. The Killing Fields had not wrought one ounce of repentance from his lips.)? Would Stalin have given up his lust for power, and become the servant of all?

I don’t think so. Therefore they prefer to hate in Hell than love in heaven. They may have been predestined in one sense. But they are also very willing.
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If I were you, I would pray diligently for your father’s final repentance and conversion – even tho your father has already died.
Something that Padre Pio said really made an impression on me. After his father’s death, he continued to pray for his father’s soul. One of his fellow priests asked him why - saying “But Padre, you told me your father was in heaven.” Padre Pio’s response was “Yes,he is; but it was contingent on my continuing to pray for him.”

There is no time for God. Love your father; pray for him. If it truly was your father, there is a reason God allowed that appearance. Perhaps it was to make you aware of how desperately your father is in need of your prayers and sufferings to be offered on his behalf. So many people forget about praying for their deceased family and friends.
 
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